Considering TRT with Already High Testosterone Levels – Worth It for Lean Gains?

[bayardtrustin]

I’ve been strength training with a personal trainer for the past two months. My goal isn’t to bulk, but to stay lean while adding some definition.

I recently got labs done and my numbers are:

Testosterone: 865 ng/dL
SHBG: 90.6 nmol/L
Free Testosterone: 96.3 pg/mL

From what I understand, TRT typically replaces your natural production, which makes me pause since my total testosterone already seems relatively high.

Given these numbers and my goals, does it make sense to even consider TRT? Or would this be more of a case where the risks outweigh the benefits?

Would appreciate thoughts from those with experience.

♂ M51 5’10’’ SW:280 CW:177 GW:150 BF:21.4 BFG:15 📚 St@ck: R6 Mon > Tirz7.5 Wed > R6 Fri

 

[Vash]

You would kill your natural production for nothing. Real TRT would put about where you are currently at. Or just blast steroids. I’m assuming you don’t want to have more kids at this point.

 

[RoadRash]

I’ve been strength training with a personal trainer for the past two months. My goal isn’t to bulk, but to stay lean while adding some definition.

I recently got labs done and my numbers are:

Testosterone: 865 ng/dL
SHBG: 90.6 nmol/L
Free Testosterone: 96.3 pg/mL

From what I understand, TRT typically replaces your natural production, which makes me pause since my total testosterone already seems relatively high.

Given these numbers and my goals, does it make sense to even consider TRT? Or would this be more of a case where the risks outweigh the benefits?

Would appreciate thoughts from those with experience.

♂ M51 5’10’’ SW:280 CW:177 GW:150 BF:21.4 BFG:15 📚 St@ck: R6 Mon > Tirz7.5 Wed > R6 Fri

With Test numbers like that you'd achieve very little with the introduction of exogenous hormones other than screw up your system.

 

[bayardtrustin]

You would kill your natural production for nothing. Real TRT would put about where you are currently at. Or just blast steroids. I’m assuming you don’t want to have more kids at this point.

Is it fair to say all these folx running Test + Reta + Roids have low test to begin with? No more kids for me!

 

[Such1943]

My TRT cruse are right around your natural levels. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it

 

[Gt3294a]

I’ve been strength training with a personal trainer for the past two months. My goal isn’t to bulk, but to stay lean while adding some definition.

I recently got labs done and my numbers are:

Testosterone: 865 ng/dL
SHBG: 90.6 nmol/L
Free Testosterone: 96.3 pg/mL

From what I understand, TRT typically replaces your natural production, which makes me pause since my total testosterone already seems relatively high.

Given these numbers and my goals, does it make sense to even consider TRT? Or would this be more of a case where the risks outweigh the benefits?

Would appreciate thoughts from those with experience.

♂ M51 5’10’’ SW:280 CW:177 GW:150 BF:21.4 BFG:15 📚 St@ck: R6 Mon > Tirz7.5 Wed > R6 Fri

What was your e2 level? Your natural test may actually go up even more as you drop to say 15 bfp. At your levels, as somebody said, the only real query is should I do a cycle and then cruise. I would think most of us running test and Reta likely had low test (and it might have been low like mine, because I did gear in the past, and I just couldn’t PCT anymore).

 

[Vash]

Is it fair to say all these folx running Test + Reta + Roids have low test to begin with? No more kids for me!

Test is steroids.

And no I wouldn’t say all have low T. But a lot of people are using the term TRT very loosely.

I’m personally on 200mg test, 4mg Reta weekly and 2iu growth daily.
Down 8lbs over the last 4 weeks. And have added some lean mass.

I did have low T. 276ng/dl. But I sure as shit don’t need 200mg to be in “normal” range. Not “blasting” by traditional standards. But definitely not TRT.

 

[Devilseye]

Test is steroids.

And no I wouldn’t say all have low T. But a lot of people are using the term TRT very loosely.

I’m personally on 200mg test, 4mg Reta weekly and 2iu growth daily.
Down 8lbs over the last 4 weeks. And have added some lean mass.

I did have low T. 276ng/dl. But I sure as shit don’t need 200mg to be in “normal” range. Not “blasting” by traditional standards. But definitely not TRT.

Yeah TRT is a really loose term these days. 200mg isnt huge by any standard though and will get you some nice lean gains. For TRT some could do half that and be in range.

To the OP, unless you want to use higher dosages in the 400mg range, i dont see why you would try test. You could be on TRT and still have lower values than you lol.

 

[Gt3294a]

Test is steroids.

And no I wouldn’t say all have low T. But a lot of people are using the term TRT very loosely.

I’m personally on 200mg test, 4mg Reta weekly and 2iu growth daily.
Down 8lbs over the last 4 weeks. And have added some lean mass.

I did have low T. 276ng/dl. But I sure as shit don’t need 200mg to be in “normal” range. Not “blasting” by traditional standards. But definitely not TRT.

Test is steroids.

And no I wouldn’t say all have low T. But a lot of people are using the term TRT very loosely.

I’m personally on 200mg test, 4mg Reta weekly and 2iu growth daily.
Down 8lbs over the last 4 weeks. And have added some lean mass.

I did have low T. 276ng/dl. But I sure as shit don’t need 200mg to be in “normal” range. Not “blasting” by traditional standards. But definitely not TRT.

It’s TRT - we are just replacing our testosterone with double the amount we had when we were 18.

 

[Vash]

It’s TRT - we are just replacing our testosterone with double the amount we had when we were 18.

Testosterone is an anabolic and androgenic steroid.

But yes, I doubt I was at 1400+ng/dl at any stage of my”natty” life.

 

[Gt3294a]

Testosterone is an anabolic and androgenic steroid.

But yes, I doubt I was at 1400+ng/dl at any stage of my”natty” life.

Dude, I’m glad I pinned this morning, because you are killing the good feel!

 

[Omxxl]

I definitely wouldn't recommend it since TRT is a lifelong treatment.

I'm currently on 125 mg per week, and it was prescribed to me for true hypogonadism. I wish I had your testosterone levels.

You could do a 12-week cycle and then come off it. Using HGH might also give you more muscle mass, but you have to consider the potential side effects of this process.

 

[DrPEPr]

As previously mentioned, TRT isn't necessary for your situation.

While you could opt for a 'blast' (doubling or tripling your testosterone levels), please proceed with extreme caution. It’s rarely 'just one cycle.' The 'Superman' feeling (rapid gains and lower body fat) is highly addictive and very difficult to walk away from.

 

[bayardtrustin]

Thanks for the guidance. Think I'll just hold off.

 

[miameow]

Thanks for the guidance. Think I'll just hold off.

Considering your age and goals, I wonder if HGH would be a better addition. I've found it useful for myself personally, as it really helps with sleep quality and recovery. I'm on trt as my test is low and HGH was a great addition.

 

[Distinct_arrival_445]

Is it fair to say all these folx running Test + Reta + Roids have low test to begin with? No more kids for me!

Quite a few are running TRT and you can safely assume they had low T levels. If not there's someone running cycles with several other compounds simultaneously. At your natural levels, unless you're going full cycles beyond TRT, you're not going to see a benefit.

 

[bayardtrustin]

Considering your age and goals, I wonder if HGH would be a better addition. I've found it useful for myself personally, as it really helps with sleep quality and recovery. I'm on trt as my test is low and HGH was a great addition.

Good to know. I have H arriving on Monday.

 

[Tbagger]

Those levels are awesome, especially in your 50's. At that point if you are wanting to benefit from testosterone, it's going to have to be a blast cycle since you are already at a really good cruise level. Then after or between your blasts, It'll be either a life long commitment taking test just to stay where you're already at, or going through nasty PCT's to try to restart your natural production and hope it goes back up to it's current level. If the only benefit you are looking for is to cut down a little, it seems a bit excessive to me. Only you can decide if it's worth it for you, but I would recommend stacking Reta and HGH before going with test.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Just take some boron pills to boost your free testosterone by lowering your shbg.

 

[tubby]

I’ve been strength training with a personal trainer for the past two months. My goal isn’t to bulk, but to stay lean while adding some definition.

I recently got labs done and my numbers are:

Testosterone: 865 ng/dL
SHBG: 90.6 nmol/L
Free Testosterone: 96.3 pg/mL

From what I understand, TRT typically replaces your natural production, which makes me pause since my total testosterone already seems relatively high.

Given these numbers and my goals, does it make sense to even consider TRT? Or would this be more of a case where the risks outweigh the benefits?

Would appreciate thoughts from those with experience.

♂ M51 5’10’’ SW:280 CW:177 GW:150 BF:21.4 BFG:15 📚 St@ck: R6 Mon > Tirz7.5 Wed > R6 Fri

If I'm following, it sounds like you're after a particular physique. At 21% BF, it's not a lack of muscle that is giving you a softer look, but rather your current amount of subcutaneous fat. Even larger muscles at your current size will appear softened rather than defined at your current BF percent.

While it's true that increasing testosterone could lead to a reduction in body fat, given your test results, it seems unlikely that a lack of testosterone is responsible for your current dilemma, and it's certainly not the level I would pull in your situation to try to get body fat down.

 

[Habibibi]

^^^ what the smarter guy above me said.

 

[bayardtrustin]

Those levels are awesome, especially in your 50's. At that point if you are wanting to benefit from testosterone, it's going to have to be a blast cycle since you are already at a really good cruise level. Then after or between your blasts, It'll be either a life long commitment taking test just to stay where you're already at, or going through nasty PCT's to try to restart your natural production and hope it goes back up to it's current level. If the only benefit you are looking for is to cut down a little, it seems a bit excessive to me. Only you can decide if it's worth it for you, but I would recommend stacking Reta and HGH before going with test.

I’ll leave the test alone and keep pushing forward with clean dieting and strength training.

 

[wildweasel]

I’ve been strength training with a personal trainer for the past two months. My goal isn’t to bulk, but to stay lean while adding some definition.

I recently got labs done and my numbers are:

Testosterone: 865 ng/dL
SHBG: 90.6 nmol/L
Free Testosterone: 96.3 pg/mL

From what I understand, TRT typically replaces your natural production, which makes me pause since my total testosterone already seems relatively high.

Given these numbers and my goals, does it make sense to even consider TRT? Or would this be more of a case where the risks outweigh the benefits?

Would appreciate thoughts from those with experience.

♂ M51 5’10’’ SW:280 CW:177 GW:150 BF:21.4 BFG:15 📚 St@ck: R6 Mon > Tirz7.5 Wed > R6 Fri

My Baseline as of Jan 15:
Total T: 644
Free T: 78
Estradiol: 29

Feb 13: I began using Enclomiphene Citrate 25mg every day and HCG 250 iu every other day.

March 17 bloodwork:
Total T: 1124
Free T: 156
Estradiol: 46 (high, was overly sentimental)

March 18: added 25mg 2x daily Arimistane

March 18 Bloodwork:
Total T: 1038
Free T: 138
Estradiol: 30 (essentially baseline))

Enclomiphene and HCG do not shut down your HPTA like TRT does. for you goals I do not reccomend TRT. The numbers i just showed you are realistically the higher end of what one would expect from a TRT doc prescribing testosterone at 200mg weekly... if you are healthy male (you are) you can get there without damaging your hormonal axis and optimize your fat loss goals.

You should only go on TRT if you are low T and symptomatic. If you want to bulk, you should probably just blast testosterone instead of going on medical TRT. If you want to stay lean (YOU) then visit the r/fitness wiki, learn about proper dieting and macro maintenance, and take some stuff to boost T

Heres my advise.

You just want to stay lean? then buy enclompihene and HCG and some arimistane. none of them are regulated in the US. Expect to increase your current T values by ~50% or so. Your body will then naturally regulate more energy to protein synthesis and less to fat storage. You can come off it any any time without concern.

enclomiphene and HCG do not shut down your HPTA. They work with it signaling it to produce a little more. Your balls and cannon stay at 100% efficiency, and you can stop any time you wish... as soon as you go on TRT, your HPTA shuts down, you cant have children, your sperm count is destroyed, and it takes months to restart everything and return to baseline

Cheers, bud

 

[Mr. Blonde]

My Baseline as of Jan 15:
Total T: 644
Free T: 78
Estradiol: 29

Feb 13: I began using Enclomiphene Citrate 25mg every day and HCG 250 iu every other day.

March 17 bloodwork:
Total T: 1124
Free T: 156
Estradiol: 46 (high, was overly sentimental)

March 18: added 25mg 2x daily Arimistane

March 18 Bloodwork:
Total T: 1038
Free T: 138
Estradiol: 30 (essentially baseline))

Enclomiphene and HCG do not shut down your HPTA like TRT does. for you goals I do not reccomend TRT. The numbers i just showed you are realistically the higher end of what one would expect from a TRT doc prescribing testosterone at 200mg weekly... if you are healthy male (you are) you can get there without damaging your hormonal axis and optimize your fat loss goals.

You should only go on TRT if you are low T and symptomatic. If you want to bulk, you should probably just blast testosterone instead of going on medical TRT. If you want to stay lean (YOU) then visit the r/fitness wiki, learn about proper dieting and macro maintenance, and take some stuff to boost T

Heres my advise.

You just want to stay lean? then buy enclompihene and HCG and some arimistane. none of them are regulated in the US. Expect to increase your current T values by ~50% or so. Your body will then naturally regulate more energy to protein synthesis and less to fat storage. You can come off it any any time without concern.

enclomiphene and HCG do not shut down your HPTA. They work with it signaling it to produce a little more. Your balls and cannon stay at 100% efficiency, and you can stop any time you wish... as soon as you go on TRT, your HPTA shuts down, you cant have children, your sperm count is destroyed, and it takes months to restart everything and return to baseline

Cheers, bud

The only issue with enclomiphene, at least from what I've read, is that it lowers igf-1 levels. So maybe cycle it or add in some hgh occasionally to increase it?

But also I've only read about this a couple times. So I don't know for sure if its true.

So much info out there and everyone reacts at least a little differently when it comes to hormones.

Would like to hear experiences from people that actually use enclo. I've never used it or trt.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Habibibi]

The only issue with enclomiphene, at least from what I've read, is that it lowers igf-1 levels. So maybe cycle it or add in some hgh occasionally to increase it?

But also I've only read about this a couple times. So I don't know for sure if its true.

So much info out there and everyone reacts at least a little differently when it comes to hormones.

Would like to hear experiences from people that actually use enclo. I've never used it or trt.

Thanks in advance.

Why is lower IGF1 automatically bad? It's not like this is a signal you want elevated for a longe period of time either.

I use enclomiphene, 3x/week at 12.5mg. My total T went a little over 1000, and free T over 160pg/mL. My E2 went over 48, with no high estrogen symptoms. I would rather lower my enclomiphene does than use an AI anyway.

 

[wildweasel]

is that it lowers igf-1 levels. So maybe cycle it or add in some hgh occasionally to increase it?

My IGF1 was measured on Jan 15 and March 18, these were my results:

Jan 15:

• IGF1: 113
• Z-score: -0.05

March 18:

• IGF1 143
• Z-Score: 0.00

Im inclined to belive the shift in my igf levels were rather meaningless and more had to do with a shift in my training routine rather than enclomiphene.

That being said, hgh would be something i love to add, its just difficult to come accross at a fair price, it sells out quickly.

Why is lower IGF1 automatically bad? It's not like this is a signal you want elevated for a longe period of time either.

IGF1 drives muscle growth, personally I would always choose a higher "healthy" level of IGF1 than a lower "healhty" level

HGH repartitions some of your metabolism to favor muscle growth and disfavor fat accumulation, but as HGH levels are elevated, liver starts producing IGF1 and the IGF1 is actually what drives the muscle synthesis pathways.

Super-physiological levels of IGF1 are known to cause disease. Health care professionals start watching it if Z-Score levels are above +4 (4 std deviations above population mean)

Body builders pruposefully elevate IGF1 for periods of time to drive muscle growth.

Lower IGF1 levels correspond to difficulty building muscle.

That being said, just like everything in the body, it doesnt make sense to say "more/less is better" its all a balancing act and depending on goals one may want one or the other.

 

[Habibibi]

My IGF1 was measured on Jan 15 and March 18, these were my results:

Jan 15:

• IGF1: 113
• Z-score: -0.05

March 18:

• IGF1 143
• Z-Score: 0.00

Im inclined to belive the shift in my igf levels were rather meaningless and more had to do with a shift in my training routine rather than enclomiphene.

That being said, hgh would be something i love to add, its just difficult to come accross at a fair price, it sells out quickly.


IGF1 drives muscle growth, personally I would always choose a higher "healthy" level of IGF1 than a lower "healhty" level

HGH repartitions some of your metabolism to favor muscle growth and disfavor fat accumulation, but as HGH levels are elevated, liver starts producing IGF1 and the IGF1 is actually what drives the muscle synthesis pathways.

Super-physiological levels of IGF1 are known to cause disease. Health care professionals start watching it if Z-Score levels are above +4 (4 std deviations above population mean)

Body builders pruposefully elevate IGF1 for periods of time to drive muscle growth.

Lower IGF1 levels correspond to difficulty building muscle.

That being said, just like everything in the body, it doesnt make sense to say "more/less is better" its all a balancing act and depending on goals one may want one or the other.

Exactly, unless you're deficient or a body builder, high igf1 for its own sake for long periods doesn't make senses. And acromegaly starts showing up around a z-score of +3 over time , I wouldn't go over +4. I don't see focusing on igf1 as a goal that makes sense, unless you're too high or too low.

 

[wildweasel]

Exactly, unless you're deficient or a body builder, high igf1 for its own sake for long periods doesn't make senses. And acromegaly starts showing up around a z-score of +3 over time , I wouldn't go over +4. I don't see focusing on igf1 as a goal that makes sense, unless you're too high or too low.

igf1-lr3 peptide itself worries me because you cant measure it in blood, it wont appear on an igf1 test, and for the very risks you mentioned, you could be well into organ enlargement territory and never know until its too late. cant even find reliable dosing protocols for it, its just a bunch of bros on reddit telling you how much they take. medically its only researched purpose is something like growing human cells in agar dishes or something, nobodys ever researched effective dosing protocols

 

[Nattybynature]

I’ve been strength training with a personal trainer for the past two months. My goal isn’t to bulk, but to stay lean while adding some definition.

I recently got labs done and my numbers are:

Testosterone: 865 ng/dL
SHBG: 90.6 nmol/L
Free Testosterone: 96.3 pg/mL

From what I understand, TRT typically replaces your natural production, which makes me pause since my total testosterone already seems relatively high.

Given these numbers and my goals, does it make sense to even consider TRT? Or would this be more of a case where the risks outweigh the benefits?

Would appreciate thoughts from those with experience.

♂ M51 5’10’’ SW:280 CW:177 GW:150 BF:21.4 BFG:15 📚 St@ck: R6 Mon > Tirz7.5 Wed > R6 Fri

Your test levels look good so if you’re not planning to add lots of size I wouldn’t. There are other pathways you can try to achieve the recomp. Some hgh and Reta. Even a small course of mots c.

 

[redsaint]

Two months in the gym is absolutely nothing. You can ride beginner gains for like two years. Good luck 🙏💪