Dream Pen if you had essentially no limits no budget what would you want?

ThunderBird

ThunderBird

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As I am going into my final year of engineering I need to start working on a finished project next year for my capstone design project, This gives me the unique opportunity to spend a gross amount of time and money and effort make something cool from the ground up. Right now I'm floating around the idea of making a injector pen just better more suited for the needs of the average peptide user and not for insulin delivery. My inspiration for this Project came from the Novo Nordisk Echo where its kind of smart but kind of eh for its electronics, to me it feels like it could be doing WAY more especially with the size of chips and electronics nowadays.

My question is as follows if you could have a pen that had XYZ features on it, that did XYZ what would you want it to do and why?
some things that i plan on including on the on the pen displayed already are as follows:
Substance - Total initial amount
Dose - total dose left
Dosing Schedule
Date/Time + Date Reconned / however days old the pep is
Previous Dose
Time till next Dose

Things that you would want can also be the following:
form Factor
general aesthetics
needles ( hidden or shown)
how you chose the dose
smartphone connectivity
Alarms
Cartridge loading and compatibility
Material/build quality

Thank you for reading this long message and if you have any ideas that you would like to share please don't hesitate to drop them in here ill be reading everything on this thread.

just as a disclaimer I'm not planning on bringing anything to market I don't have the CAPX for a project like that it is more likely I will post Code/CAD/manufacturing process after this is all done if this is the project I end up pursuing
 
ThunderBird said:
As I am going into my final year of engineering I need to start working on a finished project next year for my capstone design project, This gives me the unique opportunity to spend a gross amount of time and money and effort make something cool from the ground up. Right now I'm floating around the idea of making a injector pen just better more suited for the needs of the average peptide user and not for insulin delivery. My inspiration for this Project came from the Novo Nordisk Echo where its kind of smart but kind of eh for its electronics, to me it feels like it could be doing WAY more especially with the size of chips and electronics nowadays.

My question is as follows if you could have a pen that had XYZ features on it, that did XYZ what would you want it to do and why?
some things that i plan on including on the on the pen displayed already are as follows:
Substance - Total initial amount
Dose - total dose left
Dosing Schedule
Date/Time + Date Reconned / however days old the pep is
Previous Dose
Time till next Dose

Things that you would want can also be the following:
form Factor
general aesthetics
needles ( hidden or shown)
how you chose the dose
smartphone connectivity
Alarms
Cartridge loading and compatibility
Material/build quality

Thank you for reading this long message and if you have any ideas that you would like to share please don't hesitate to drop them in here ill be reading everything on this thread.

just as a disclaimer I'm not planning on bringing anything to market I don't have the CAPX for a project like that it is more likely I will post Code/CAD/manufacturing process after this is all done if this is the project I end up pursuing
Click to expand...

I personally think it would be helpful to have a better understanding of how much peptides you have left in the cart. Some of my pens have lines on the cart holder, but I have no idea what those lines actually mean. I guess I could read the instructions, but who has time for that... 🙃 And besides, some of my pens came with no documentation.

Priming is also an irritant. I thought that I had purged all the air out of a cart that I am currently using, but I looked yesterday and there is still air in the cart. I'm not sure if there is some engineering that could be done around that.

I personally won't leave the pen needle on the pen waiting for the next dose, so I would prefer pens that are smaller. I understand that pens are constrained by the length of the cart and the length of the "plunger" but if there was anyway to make these pens more streamlined and shorter that would be great.

Another sticking point, right now I'm using the Savvio. Love the build quality, love that it's smaller, don't love the cartridge loading mechanism. I like cartridge holders that screw in, and the Savvio uses a spring mechanism that turns the same way when you're removing a needle. So, several times when removing a needle I've accidentally had the cart holder pop out. I love the concept of the spring loaded cart holder, but maybe it sould have been threaded in the opposite direction?

You might also think about the ergonomics of these pens. Something that favored one hand useability, especially for people with arthritis might be something you could design around. I don't have that (yet), but I could see that being an issue.

Finally, as much as I love pens and I've tested the dosing a bunch of times, I'm still left wondering if the dose was delivered. I'm not sure if there is a way to engineer something around that.
 
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I love the Gansulin too. I wish it had a mode where you click the button and you don’t have to hold the button down, it just delivers…Also these pens need an audible sound (a click, anything) to indicate dose was delivered so I can time how long I keep the needle in after delivery. Put a little watch battery in it and tie it to an app that tracks dosing amounts and everything I’d put on a label.
Good luck with your endeavor!!
 
thatkatmat said:
I love the Gansulin too. I wish it had a mode where you click the button and you don’t have to hold the button down, it just delivers…Also these pens need an audible sound (a click, anything) to indicate dose was delivered so I can time how long I keep the needle in after delivery. Put a little watch battery in it and tie it to an app that tracks dosing amounts and everything I’d put on a label.
Good luck with your endeavor!!
Click to expand...

I think the novapen already has that plus a digital counter so you can see how many total units you have injected.
 
AlexSilver said:
I think the novapen already has that plus a digital counter so you can see how many total units you have injected.
Click to expand...
I had a Novopen for the exact amount of time it took try and remove the vile holder and break it. Complete waste of money. Mine (at least) was defective and or design flawed. I knew it had a counter, wasn't sure about any of the other features.
 
If you could find a way to connect two vials within an injector pen to the pen needle, you could have a viable product for people to "mix" peptides using independent single vials, a single needle, and a single device. So you load your device with, let's say, BPC-157 and TB-500, and you click dial 1 to 10unit, and a second dial to 15units (or nothing at all), inject yourself, push plunger 1, then 2, and you get dual injection with one device and one needle. If you think outside the box, you might be able to create a "pen" that is not a traditional looking pen, but operates similarly with design elements that allow for dual loading. If you can add some sort of digital display, that would be even better!
 
A cartridge that doesn't trap the last bit of peptide. So you don't have to either waste what's left behind, or go through the trouble of using an insulin needle to get it out.

Something easy to use one handed, so you can get to areas that are harder to reach. For example, GHK-Cu stings less of pinned in the fat on the backside of the hips, but it is hard to reach back there and push the plunger at the same time.
 
Same with @Grogu needing to know what is left in there. For some reason there is always less than its supposed to be

& @cheaperseeker to be able to get out the final amount without wasting. Yes the price is so low but I feel bad throwing it away anyway, ha ha. I don't like insulin needles I prefer the shorter pen ones bc I'm still a needle baby. It's worth it to toss for the added less pain benefit

Congrats on being in your last lap for your degree!!
 
To complement your pen, If you can engineer a pen needle that is a quarter the size of a 34g, works effectively and does not break off easily. You've won first class honours in my books. Good luck .
 
cheaperseeker said:
Something easy to use one handed, so you can get to areas that are harder to reach. For example, GHK-Cu stings less of pinned in the fat on the backside of the hips, but it is hard to reach back there and push the plunger at the same time.
Click to expand...
That's my problem too. Maybe an automatic push button that has a time delay? If that's even possible.
 
Grogu said:
I personally think it would be helpful to have a better understanding of how much peptides you have left in the cart. Some of my pens have lines on the cart holder, but I have no idea what those lines actually mean. I guess I could read the instructions, but who has time for that... 🙃 And besides, some of my pens came with no documentation.

Priming is also an irritant. I thought that I had purged all the air out of a cart that I am currently using, but I looked yesterday and there is still air in the cart. I'm not sure if there is some engineering that could be done around that.

I personally won't leave the pen needle on the pen waiting for the next dose, so I would prefer pens that are smaller. I understand that pens are constrained by the length of the cart and the length of the "plunger" but if there was anyway to make these pens more streamlined and shorter that would be great.

Another sticking point, right now I'm using the Savvio. Love the build quality, love that it's smaller, don't love the cartridge loading mechanism. I like cartridge holders that screw in, and the Savvio uses a spring mechanism that turns the same way when you're removing a needle. So, several times when removing a needle I've accidentally had the cart holder pop out. I love the concept of the spring loaded cart holder, but maybe it sould have been threaded in the opposite direction?

You might also think about the ergonomics of these pens. Something that favored one hand useability, especially for people with arthritis might be something you could design around. I don't have that (yet), but I could see that being an issue.

Finally, as much as I love pens and I've tested the dosing a bunch of times, I'm still left wondering if the dose was delivered. I'm not sure if there is a way to engineer something around that.
Click to expand...
Hows about the plunger shaft and its follower made from polished stainless steel(or some such) so as the pen works super smooth and consistent thru out its operating range...
 
AlexSilver said:
The original Gansulin autoinjector does have steel gears and plunger.
Click to expand...
I mean realistically a spritz of WD40 ( or any type of lubricant) would change the feel more than the material honestly if you wanted a really really smooth pen you could Probably tear your pen apart apply a light lubricant and reassemble and I bet it would would be the feel you are looking for. Unfortunately my other hobby other than peps is custom mechanical and you would surprised how much lube goes into them things and I am cursed with lube knowledge because of it haha.
 
ThunderBird said:
I mean realistically a spritz of WD40 ( or any type of lubricant) would change the feel more than the material honestly if you wanted a really really smooth pen you could Probably tear your pen apart apply a light lubricant and reassemble and I bet it would would be the feel you are looking for. Unfortunately my other hobby other than peps is custom mechanical and you would surprised how much lube goes into them things and I am cursed with lube knowledge because of it haha.
Click to expand...
I too, am cursed with an abundant knowledge of all things mechanical and I'm pretty sure I would have to completely destroy at least one to learn how to or how to not to do it. Hows about you tear yours apart and let us know how it goes...
 
ThunderBird said:
I mean realistically a spritz of WD40 ( or any type of lubricant) would change the feel more than the material honestly if you wanted a really really smooth pen you could Probably tear your pen apart apply a light lubricant and reassemble and I bet it would would be the feel you are looking for. Unfortunately my other hobby other than peps is custom mechanical and you would surprised how much lube goes into them things and I am cursed with lube knowledge because of it haha.
Click to expand...
I'd personally use a silicone based lubricant rather than WD40. Otherwise, inox. It's lighter and not as corrosive as wd40.
 
skeptick said:
I too, am cursed with an abundant knowledge of all things mechanical and I'm pretty sure I would have to completely destroy at least one to learn how to or how to not to do it. Hows about you tear yours apart and let us know how it goes...
Click to expand...
What do you have honestly I’m curious now I bet I could tear one apart and put it back together ( now I may have to record a 5 hour video of me doing it ) but it would be essentially research for me as I am trying to build one of these
 
thatkatmat said:
I had a Novopen for the exact amount of time it took try and remove the vile holder and break it. Complete waste of money. Mine (at least) was defective and or design flawed. I knew it had a counter, wasn't sure about any of the other features.
Click to expand...
You can get a 3-d printed cart holder replacement from AmexBabushka on Telegram. Specify you need the Nova, because he makes them for convipens as well.
 
ThunderBird said:
As I am going into my final year of engineering I need to start working on a finished project next year for my capstone design project, This gives me the unique opportunity to spend a gross amount of time and money and effort make something cool from the ground up. Right now I'm floating around the idea of making a injector pen just better more suited for the needs of the average peptide user and not for insulin delivery. My inspiration for this Project came from the Novo Nordisk Echo where its kind of smart but kind of eh for its electronics, to me it feels like it could be doing WAY more especially with the size of chips and electronics nowadays.

My question is as follows if you could have a pen that had XYZ features on it, that did XYZ what would you want it to do and why?
some things that i plan on including on the on the pen displayed already are as follows:
Substance - Total initial amount
Dose - total dose left
Dosing Schedule
Date/Time + Date Reconned / however days old the pep is
Previous Dose
Time till next Dose

Things that you would want can also be the following:
form Factor
general aesthetics
needles ( hidden or shown)
how you chose the dose
smartphone connectivity
Alarms
Cartridge loading and compatibility
Material/build quality

Thank you for reading this long message and if you have any ideas that you would like to share please don't hesitate to drop them in here ill be reading everything on this thread.

just as a disclaimer I'm not planning on bringing anything to market I don't have the CAPX for a project like that it is more likely I will post Code/CAD/manufacturing process after this is all done if this is the project I end up pursuing
Click to expand...
I won’t even start on the fantasy pens I’d like (self- purging, set and forget on the dose until you manually change it, heavy enough to feel comfy in my hand and my favorite colors). Pens in existence? A green Luxura and a pink and a green Saavio. Maybe a black one too. But I’m too cheap to pay hundreds of dollars for a single pen.
 
ThunderBird said:
What do you have honestly I’m curious now I bet I could tear one apart and put it back together ( now I may have to record a 5 hour video of me doing it ) but it would be essentially research for me as I am trying to build one of these
Click to expand...
Now you went and got my brain zooming in on what just might make pens operate more smoothly. Seems we'd only want to use a product that won't contaminate the products that the pens are designed to dispense. WD40 is primarily a penetrant that at 1st is not a particularly good lubricant, but gets better with time as the solvent evaporates but that evaporation continues until the WD becomes a thick waxy like substance that is a great protectant but not a great grease. I'm thinkin a small amount of a gun lubricant CLP (cleans,lubricates,protects) would serve as a more semi-permanent solution. Problems could arise because the spiral shaft of the pens I have examined are all some unknown plastic that could be attacked by the solvent carriers of what ever lube is used. The primary lubricant that is used in the CLP's I'm familiar with is Teflon and, as is WD, they are approved for use on food processing equipment. The spray on application of WD would coat all of the internals of a pen whereas CLP could be sparingly applied with a foam Q-Tip and would stay where applied. I have 2 V2s ,that I don't like, that I will try this out on. Depending on the results of that experiment, I have a V1 ,that is my current go-to pen, that I will consider for the same treatment I also have a new Savio that I have only used with water for trials of accuracy and smoothness after a couple dozen runs for break-in purposes that I like a lot which may be a candidate for this test. StandBy for reports to this thread...

Spent my working career as a research and development mechanic for a large aircraft manufacturer. Got to work with many highly skill mechanics and some incredibly smart engineers. If they could think it up and draw it, we got to build it. After all manner of extended torture tests, we got to test till destruction. Example is we bolted a test aircraft to the floor and lifted the wing tips till the wings broke. 16 feet and the boom of a shot gun blast then we got to tear it all down and sent the fuselage out to the bone yard.
 
Last edited:
skeptick said:
Now you went and got my brain zooming in on what just might make pens operate more smoothly. Seems we'd only want to use a product that won't contaminate the products that the pens are designed to dispense. WD40 is primarily a penetrant that at 1st is not a particularly good lubricant, but gets better with time as the solvent evaporates but that evaporation continues until the WD becomes a thick waxy like substance that is a great protectant but not a great grease. I'm thinkin a small amount of a gun lubricant CLP (cleans,lubricates,protects) would serve as a more semi-permanent solution. Problems could arise because the spiral shaft of the pens I have examined are all some unknown plastic that could be attacked by the solvent carriers of what ever lube is used. The primary lubricant that is used in the CLP's I'm familiar with is Teflon and, as is WD, they are approved for use on food processing equipment. The spray on application of WD would coat all of the internals of a pen whereas CLP could be sparingly applied with a foam Q-Tip and would stay where applied. I have 2 V2s ,that I don't like, that I will try this out on. Depending on the results of that experiment, I have a V1 ,that is my current go-to pen, that I will consider for the same treatment I also have a new Savio that I have only used with water for trials of accuracy and smoothness after a couple dozen runs for break-in purposes that I like a lot which may be a candidate for this test. StandBy for reports to this thread...

Spent my working career as a research and development mechanic for a large aircraft manufacturer. Got to work with many highly skill mechanics and some incredibly smart engineers. If they could think it up and draw it, we got to build it. After all manner of extended torture tests, we got to test till destruction. Example is we bolted a test aircraft to the floor and lifted the wing tips till the wings broke. 16 feet and the boom of a shot gun blast then we got to tear it all down and sent the fuselage out to the bone yard.
Click to expand...

IMHO, the biggest problem with the cheaper pens is that the gears slip if you push the plunger too fast and sometimes even then. I would think that lube would make the problem worse…. I dunno.
 
AlexSilver said:
IMHO, the biggest problem with the cheaper pens is that the gears slip if you push the plunger too fast and sometimes even then. I would think that lube would make the problem worse…. I dunno.
Click to expand...
I also experienced that skipping a tooth feeling the first time I used my first V2 , but to be fair, I was pretty much a gorilla doing it. No idea how much I actually injected. Have since gone back and done accuracy testing on all four of my pens using water, 2) V2s, 1) V1, and 1 Savio. They all proved accurate enough for me, functioned properly and felt smooth. I thought the V1 and the Savio felt better than the V2s. I ran a half dozen vials thru each of them to give them a break in. Have not yet used the Savio for Tirz. Just got some Cag that I'll load into it.
 
AlexSilver said:
The original Gansulin Auto-injector would be perfect if it only had a spring cap to hide the needle for injecting like the V2 does.
Click to expand...
Ugh. Those dumb spring-loaded caps that prevent me from being able to see what I'm doing are my least-favorite thing about the V2.
 
I would love to try one of those needle-free high pressure injectors.
Just push agains your skin, push the button and BAM, all in a sec or two.

Loading stil is a hassle in those commercially available so my dream pen would be one of those but where you can just click in a vial, dial in the volume and fire away.
 
Having only compared the Nova insulin Flexpen Mounjaro kwickpen and Lily Luxura reusable pen so my wish list may not be very helpful. But I would like
_ a reusable pen
_ that's smooth as the above ones
_ shows how many ml or units remaining in cartridge
_ comes with a cooling insulation sleeve for travelling in hot conditions

I don't think that's too much to ask at a reasonable price.
 
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