HGH regulation and solution?

But it IS mostly visceral fat, I did a freaking MRI. Geez. Do you just like to argue with people and call them silly names? 🙄
Then we've come full circle. Run tesa/ipa, or even better if you can afford to check your IGF/fasting insulin, run full blown HGH, and more importantly than any of that, exercise like a madman/woman. And of course, count your calories, eat in a big deficit, then if you stall put after two months do a refeed for a week and drop your calories out again.

You can't fight your genetics, you can only fight the fat. Visceral fat is the first to go.
 
Then we've come full circle. Run tesa/ipa, or even better if you can afford to check your IGF/fasting insulin, run full blown HGH, and more importantly than any of that, exercise like a madman/woman. And of course, count your calories, eat in a big deficit, then if you stall put after two months do a refeed for a week and drop your calories out again.

You can't fight your genetics, you can only fight the fat. Visceral fat is the first to go.

What are your thoughts on the OP statement regarding HGH shipments from China being tamped down? Which of the 'morlins would you suggest as an alternative to HGH? Thank you for your expertise
 
But it IS mostly visceral fat, I did a freaking MRI. Geez. Do you just like to argue with people and call them silly names? 🙄
I’m not sure anyone here is doubting you have some visceral fat

What’s not common whatsoever is having visceral fat fluctuate wildly as you think your issue is. Water, weight and gut weight fluctuates wildly subcutaneous fat fluctuates as well, visceral fat is a lot more slow moving and simply doesn’t grow quickly like you’re describing

If you lose weight you will lose visceral fat. GHRP/S compounds, or are you call them: “morelins” aren’t going to magically make you lose visceral fat without being calorie neutral or deficit.. studies do absolutely show that they bias the mobilization of fat from the visceral area, but if you are in a calorie surplus and gaining fat anyways, it will not be oxidized after mobilization. It doesn’t change dietary kinetics
 
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Then we've come full circle. Run tesa/ipa, or even better if you can afford to check your IGF/fasting insulin, run full blown HGH, and more importantly than any of that, exercise like a madman/woman. And of course, count your calories, eat in a big deficit, then if you stall put after two months do a refeed for a week and drop your calories out again.

You can't fight your genetics, you can only fight the fat. Visceral fat is the first to go.
This.
This.
Calorie deficit, exercise, this shit isn’t magic and nobody is a unicorn.
 
What are your thoughts on the OP statement regarding HGH shipments from China being tamped down?
We won't see the effects of that for a little while, but there's HGH to go around. Price will go up for sure.

Which of the 'morlins would you suggest as an alternative to HGH? Thank you for your expertise
Ipa/tesa seem to be very well tolerated. Sadly tesa is quite pricy considering you're gonna need at least 600mg of it. I would suggest only doing GBs from TG. Stick around here for a while and you'll get plugged in eventually, feel free to message me when your dms open.

CJC/Ipa is an option but lots of people have trouble with the CJC. I've heard of people getting over it when they stick with it but most end up dropping it sadly.

These are one of those things where I have to wonder about the economy of it. I would like to run tesa/ipa but if you're spending that much money already you may as well bite the bullet on labs and run full blown Gh.

But if you have plenty of money then go for it.
 
This.
This.
Calorie deficit, exercise, this shit isn’t magic and nobody is a unicorn.
Thanks weasel,

to the other guy, sorry for being harsh with you. Just hate to see people get stuck on verbiage like that.
 
Buddy, just lose weight. Exercise and track your calories. Visceral fat is the first to go. Unless you're a heavy drinker or have a condition you don't need to worry about visceral fat specifically.

What's the name of the influencer that made you so scared of visceral fat?
Man, I had to read through some many comments to make sure somebody said this. The idea that you need to specifically target visceral fat is silly. Sure, Reta can help reduce fatty liver, but that is getting super in the weeds of fat loss. I mean, the people I know that target visceral fat are below 10bfp and then do 2-3 day fasts. Also, there is a big difference between a bodybuilder running 10-12iu and shooting insulin, and somebody raising their Igf to 300. It is true that the data says lower Igf, longer life. But the extreme data is based off dwarf mice. And low levels of Igf are associated with bad bone density issues. So some try to responsibly balance it just like testosterone levels. I do tend to agree that the easy and cheap access to HGH likely has led to some stupid use. But I feel like you could say the same with opiates. And the same with people that cruise on 500mg of test. And finally, I’ve heard people testing with Z scores off the tesa etc stuff, too.
 
Man, I had to read through some many comments to make sure somebody said this.
It's a pet peeve of mine. Got a family member who picked up the visceral fat thing from somewhere lol.

Also, there is a big difference between a bodybuilder running 10-12iu and shooting insulin, and somebody raising their Igf to 300.
Yeah growing up I always thought the weird looking gut was because of HGH, didn't know it was crazy abuse plus insulin.

Do you have any experience with lower dose HGH? I want to run 1.5-2iu, honestly mainly for better sleep and recovery, but also as a secondary boost to fat loss. I'm wondering how neccessary it really is to stay on top of testing and blood glucose on a dose like this, since the people who actually USE hgh will usually just say "you should be running 4iu bro".

I'm only 27 – I wish tesa were cheaper, but at 1.5 to 2 dollars a day it just doesn't seem worth it.
 
It's a pet peeve of mine. Got a family member who picked up the visceral fat thing from somewhere lol.


Yeah growing up I always thought the weird looking gut was because of HGH, didn't know it was crazy abuse plus insulin.

Do you have any experience with lower dose HGH? I want to run 1.5-2iu, honestly mainly for better sleep and recovery, but also as a secondary boost to fat loss. I'm wondering how neccessary it really is to stay on top of testing and blood glucose on a dose like this, since the people who actually USE hgh will usually just say "you should be running 4iu bro".

I'm only 27 – I wish tesa were cheaper, but at 1.5 to 2 dollars a day it just doesn't seem worth it.
Here are my views on it. I’ve been in these circles for 30 years, and seen HGH from the range of a friend that competes and wears an insulin pump, to athletes recovering from injuries (very popular in baseball), to people get old and use to up IGF to say 300 (bringing to high end of scale of 18 year old). I think the problem for younger people is that 1.5-2iu isn’t that noticeable. Yet, for a 50 year old (like me), 2ius can be absolute game changer. For some older people, they take it, right away are super hungry the first few weeks. Why? You metabolism kicks up - hence, the fat burning. So younger people trend to 4ius and that is why everybody young says 4iu. I feel like some people tend to get insulin sensitivity even at that dose, 4ius, but not really at say 2iu (some notice it taking longer to drop blood sugar level after a meal for example and why CGM is good to wear once in a while). Anyway, I did all kinds of stuff but didn’t do HGH to almost being 50 for these reasons. But I get others starting earlier.
 
I'm not you and you are not me, eveyone is different. I actually discussed this with my Dr. For me, the reason I would avoid Tesa is that it is more prone to cause water retention, and every time I get fat like this, I get edema and I don't want any of that. So I'm starting with Ipa. Yeah, Tesa is probably going to target the visceral fat more quickly, but maybe not a good solution for me.
Ipamorelin will not get it done. Definitely not at mcg level. You'll be hungrier, though.
 
It's a pet peeve of mine. Got a family member who picked up the visceral fat thing from somewhere lol.


Yeah growing up I always thought the weird looking gut was because of HGH, didn't know it was crazy abuse plus insulin.

Do you have any experience with lower dose HGH? I want to run 1.5-2iu, honestly mainly for better sleep and recovery, but also as a secondary boost to fat loss. I'm wondering how neccessary it really is to stay on top of testing and blood glucose on a dose like this, since the people who actually USE hgh will usually just say "you should be running 4iu bro".

I'm only 27 – I wish tesa were cheaper, but at 1.5 to 2 dollars a day it just doesn't seem worth it.
You need to test your igf1 levels with 2mg tesamorelin vs 2iu hgh to determine which one will be cheaper for you.

This has been said before in this thread, but talking about dosing these substances in ius or mg is just dumb. 2iu could put your z-score at +1 or +4. Dosage should be talked about in terms of igf1 z-score.
 
You need to test your igf1 levels with 2mg tesamorelin vs 2iu hgh to determine which one will be cheaper for you.

This has been said before in this thread, but talking about dosing these substances in ius or mg is just dumb. 2iu could put your z-score at +1 or +4. Dosage should be talked about in terms of igf1 z-score.
Have you seen that. Say average for 40 year old is 175 Igf. You have seen 2iu do plus 4 z score? What is that in Igf? It’s 4 standard deviations. That would be a huge effect.
 
But it IS mostly visceral fat, I did a freaking MRI. Geez. Do you just like to argue with people and call them silly names? 🙄
As I said:
Since visceral fat is more metabolically active than subcutaneous fat, it tends to come off relatively quickly during a diet, often faster than subcutaneous fat. So I'm not sure why you think Tirzepatide wouldn't reduce visceral fat.
 
Here are my views on it. I’ve been in these circles for 30 years, and seen HGH from the range of a friend that competes and wears an insulin pump, to athletes recovering from injuries (very popular in baseball), to people get old and use to up IGF to say 300 (bringing to high end of scale of 18 year old). I think the problem for younger people is that 1.5-2iu isn’t that noticeable. Yet, for a 50 year old (like me), 2ius can be absolute game changer. For some older people, they take it, right away are super hungry the first few weeks. Why? You metabolism kicks up - hence, the fat burning. So younger people trend to 4ius and that is why everybody young says 4iu. I feel like some people tend to get insulin sensitivity even at that dose, 4ius, but not really at say 2iu (some notice it taking longer to drop blood sugar level after a meal for example and why CGM is good to wear once in a while). Anyway, I did all kinds of stuff but didn’t do HGH to almost being 50 for these reasons. But I get others starting earlier.
Damn u look good, I don't want to say "for your age" you look good even at dimensions out of "that age", like 20-30 year old guys. RESPECT!
And anyone saying mimimi Testosterone mimi HGH, doesn't know the effort you still have to put in, else anybody would look like this at 50
 
But it IS mostly visceral fat, I did a freaking MRI. Geez. Do you just like to argue with people and call them silly names? 🙄
Try not to be offended, he often comes across rudely, but his intentions are good (he's my son). He has said the same thing to me (multiple times) about visceral fat, however, I'm a 50+ female and I understand the difference between subcu and visceral fat as well as the dangers of carrying too much visceral fat. I wouldn't be surprised if the body does prioritize burning the visceral fat first, since it's the most metabolically active and the most damaging to our organs. I also tend to carry my fat in the abdominal area- with much of it under the muscle- which is the worst place to carry it. It's better for women to have a fat ass than a fat belly- because, you guessed it- visceral fat!
 
Just like everyone else. Abdominal fat is not visceral fat. Funny how you dodge every question that matters.


I do know the solution for you. It's the same solution for everyone, barring those with extreme conditions that change the nature of things.

You said you don't have any crazy conditions, so you're on the same playing field as everyone else here. You need to learn to play ball before that mindset keeps you fat. Count your calories and do cardio and the "visceral fat" will slide right off.

Sometime I feel for, others not so much
Fail Charlie Brown GIF by Peanuts

Try not to be offended, he often comes across rudely, but his intentions are good (he's my son). He has said the same thing to me (multiple times) about visceral fat, however, I'm a 50+ female and I understand the difference between subcu and visceral fat as well as the dangers of carrying too much visceral fat. I wouldn't be surprised if the body does prioritize burning the visceral fat first, since it's the most metabolically active and the most damaging to our organs. I also tend to carry my fat in the abdominal area- with much of it under the muscle- which is the worst place to carry it. It's better for women to have a fat ass than a fat belly- because, you guessed it- visceral fat!
Below Deck Ego GIF by Bravo TV
 
The only advantage rHGH has over the secretagogues is the ability to inject amounts much larger than a human could possibly produce. This provides some accelerated fat loss and (minor) muscle building benefits, but exceeding the physiologic limits of growth hormone (IGF-1 levels more than 1.3x the upper limit of normal for your age, or a “Z score” of 2), over the long term, as little as 18 months, risks very real, serious, but insidious and notoriously difficult to notice harms.

To make matters worse, the clock doesn’t “reset” when you take a break. It’s cumulative.

Until recently, running high doses continuously was very, very rare because of expense. Now we’re got people who have no idea what their IGF levels are, or that IGF is even a thing, thinking they can just run rHGH forever at whatever dose because they’re “harmless” like other peptides. rHGH isn’t an addictive drug, but because it boosts thyroid function, some people feel good on it, in some way they find difficult to describe, which makes it habit forming.

Unfortunately this reckless use won’t end well. At least bodybuilders are somewhat accepting of the risks of performance enhancing drugs, so discovering they have an enlarged heart or kidney failure isn’t exactly a surprise.

Mary Sue and Billy Bob Peptide will likely be a lot more vocal to the media, to lawmakers, “demanding something be done” when they find out the “5ius” they were taking because that’s what someone told them to take, not knowing that pushed their IGF to 700, and after 2 years each thinking of the other “wow, he/she is sure aging badly, getting ugly in the face, like they hit a brick wall, look at his/her big ass nose”, “I wonder why my ring isn’t fitting any more, I’m not getting fat”, “why are my teeth misaligned?”, “my sleep is terrible and it’s getting harder to breath (from thickened nasal passages narrowing)”, “why is my voice changing? (enlarged tongue)”, discovering they’re pre-diabetic (or full diabetic) when they were fine a year ago, shoe size changing… it goes on and on. It’s estimated 80% of people with acromegally from pituitary tumors causing excess GH secretion are never diagnosed, because the symptoms above happen in slow motion and rarely noticed or they’re attributed to the aging process. Doctors don’t even notice because they’re not trained to look for them.

Meanwhile, secretagogues can bring you to maximum physiological levels of growth hormone production, all the feedback systems stay in place so the body will block GH / IGF levels from getting excessive, and you’ll still benefit from higher, more youthful levels of GH (IE, better body composition, faster healing, skin / nail / hair quality, etc.

Endocrinologists worldwide stopped prescribing rHGH by “IUs” 20 years ago and use IGF-1 levels to determine the correct dose, rechecking it a couple times a year and adjusting as necessary to keep it within the normal range, specifically to prevent this shit. Some might need 4ius, and for others 2iu might be too much, but without checking IGF there’s no way to know if you’re in the danger zone.


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My husband gets his igf levels checked every 3 months by his Dr. It's adjusted accordingly. Some so that's going overboard checking it that much. I feel like it's better to be safe than sorry. Even constantly be regulated he has some of these issues.
 
You need to test your igf1 levels with 2mg tesamorelin vs 2iu hgh to determine which one will be cheaper for you.

This has been said before in this thread, but talking about dosing these substances in ius or mg is just dumb. 2iu could put your z-score at +1 or +4. Dosage should be talked about in terms of igf1 z-score.
100%. Been on 2 iu hgh for four months now. From baseline to 8 weeks z score went from -2.0 to -0.6, so I’m continuing on 2 iu and will run labs every 2 months. I really don’t want to go above zero on the z score. (66 yo male also running 180 mg test c weekly and tirz/reta. Hormones looking great, workouts are really progressing.)

How old is OP? His mom’s in here too? If he’s in his 20’s or early 30’s, is hgh or a secretagogue even recommended for one so young? GLP, calorie deficit and hit the gym 4-7 days a week. That’s all anyone needs tbh. (I lost 95 lbs on tirz alone before I even thought of hgh and TRT.)
 
My husband gets his igf levels checked every 3 months by his Dr. It's adjusted accordingly. Some so that's going overboard checking it that much. I feel like it's better to be safe than sorry. Even constantly be regulated he has some of these issues.
Better safe than sorry. It is a very slow process, so after the first check at 6 weeks if dose isn’t changed, you could argue even a year is reasonable, since IGF’s not going to change by lot. The one exception would be if one is in a calorie deficit (which suppresses IGF-1) at the first check, and then started eating more. A slight caloric surplus could bump IGF-1 up significantly (made a 100 point difference in my case).
 

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