Peptides vs Testosterone vs ?

[Cavalier]

First thing I want to say is, 20 pounds a month is rapid progress - Good job!

I would focus more on keeping up the good work instead of trying to speed up. You are already doing a lot correctly and it sounds like a major change with very good health improvements!

You clearly found yourself some strong motivation to make big changes, and personally I think you should focus on making that into a subconscious routine before improving more. (Take it from someone who has ran face first into a wall and burned out several times).

When it comes to anavar, 10mg is about as harmful to your body as a beer is. But drinking 3-4 beer par day over an extended time is definitely not healthy 😉

10mg 2 times daily should give you a significant boost and effect. Do that for 8 weeks, test your liver values again and see where you are at.

Alternatively since anavar isn’t as reliant on stacking up in the body as some injectables, you could use it 4-5 days a week (on exercise days).

But as a rule of thumb, you wouldn’t want to do more than 8-12 weeks consistently without giving your body a break. And monitor testosterone levels to make sure your natural production isn’t getting suppressed too much, then you might want to consider a break + pct, or to up your trt. But I can’t really tell you which option is better for you specifically.

The important part is to figure out how much it impacts your liver, and adjust based on that.

All that said, with those doses, there shouldn’t really be any issues. But with optimal bad luck you could have an underlying condition, so stay safe.

It’s also worth mentioning that more test and anavar will increase your protein synthesis, so you could up your protein intake a bit if it’s low.

And remember to combine some rapid carbs with your post workout protein, it really helps recovery.

NB: Please let your body get used to the soreness and give it a couple months before you start. One big issue with steroids that is often neglected, is that if you are used to the extra pump, energy, strength and “aggression” it could be quite demotivating to train without it.

So try getting your body i to the habit of working out, and your mind to enjoy being exhausted.

As for dosing of steroids in general. It more or less works on two scales.

One linear scale where more steroids = more muscle

One exponential scale where more steroids = more aide effects

So when it comes to “what’s enough”, that is very difficult to answer. All i can say is: be RELIGIOUS in taking progress photos so your mind doesn’t do you in and give you body dysmorphia 😉

When it comes to pushing hard enough at the gym: if it’s comfortable you are not doing it right 😁 Out body adjust to pressure, so you need to make sure it struggles a bit, just don’t go bonkers with crazy influencer exercises with absurd risks of injury 😂

I hope that helps, let me know if i skipped answering anything specific.

First, thanks for the reply and the info. And to be clear i don’t want to speed up my weight loss, thats going fine (although the less i weigh the slower it’s coming off but I’m becoming ok with that). My goals with asking this stuff is more on how to gain muscle more quickly with the least chance of side effects and or health issues. I’d like to push it to the most i can do without the health issues as to me thats the most important thing but would like to get a boost as as you read my test is lower than most, I’m older, and have never really been muscular so its not like its easy for my body to get back to when it was muscular, it never has been. Hence the thought id probably need some form of either higher test, or steroids, or other peptides to give my body the boost since its never really made them on its own. Like I said this is all new to me. I dont want to be on a cover of a magazine lol, but id like to have arms that are noticeable, where my shirts are tighter around my biceps, never had abs before, not looking for a 6 pack necessarily but to have a good core i think its important. I just know going completely natural with it in my stage of life an my lack of never having muscles isnt gonna really work on its own. So just looking for some solid advice on what may work in my situation. Do you think starting with just 10mg anavar a day 4-5 times a week when i work out will make a difference if is it pointless unless i do 20mg a day? I just thought that something is better than nothing and because my body isnt used to any of this that it may be smart to start very slow. But if 10mg daily is like a drop of water in a bathtub then maybe that doesn’t make sense to start slower and 20mg daily may be better. Just thinking out loud here. And want to minimize side effects short and long term as much as possible.

 

[Cavalier]

@Cavalier
Welcome and Congratulations on your substantial rate of weight loss.
Like better informed @Bacchus I too think your approach is a good one, and, that the best weight loss/muscle-building program is the one you are willing to do consistently.

Some years ago I was a body-builder wannabe with a trainer and a well-informed MD who supervised my Testosterone Replacement Therapy. Supplemental T was very good indeed in a variety of beneficial ways. We first tried topical gel as you are doing but got only middling uptake - maybe it was my thick research QAlligator skin?

Shifting to sub-Q injections with Testosterone from a compounding pharmacy worked MUCH BETTER for me!

MY SUGGESTION is that rather than pushing your dosage higher consider changing to sub-Q injections for more effective T uptake.

Best of luck with your weight loss and muscle-building program!
Dionysos

Wow, thanks for the info! I’ll ask my doc about that. IS there a brand or type i should ask for? Amount, dosage, etc? If she wont/cant prescribe it, is there one you recommend i can get thru either grey or online that works well and is safe? Again, being new to this whole world of test and ster i dont know what really to look for. I’d be all on board with subq test, just dont know where to look or what to look for. And maybe you’re right, that may be best to start and then add anavar later if needed. As the gel is working but not as much as id like.

 

[Bacchus]

First, thanks for the reply and the info. And to be clear i don’t want to speed up my weight loss, thats going fine (although the less i weigh the slower it’s coming off but I’m becoming ok with that). My goals with asking this stuff is more on how to gain muscle more quickly with the least chance of side effects and or health issues. I’d like to push it to the most i can do without the health issues as to me thats the most important thing but would like to get a boost as as you read my test is lower than most, I’m older, and have never really been muscular so its not like its easy for my body to get back to when it was muscular, it never has been. Hence the thought id probably need some form of either higher test, or steroids, or other peptides to give my body the boost since its never really made them on its own. Like I said this is all new to me. I dont want to be on a cover of a magazine lol, but id like to have arms that are noticeable, where my shirts are tighter around my biceps, never had abs before, not looking for a 6 pack necessarily but to have a good core i think its important. I just now going completely natural with it in my stage of life an my lack of never having muscles isnt gonna really work on its own. So list looking for some solid advice on what may work in my situation. Do you think starting with just 10mg anavar a day 4-5 times a week when i work out will make a difference if is it pointless unless i do 20mg a day? I just thought that something is better than nothing and because my body isnt used to any of this that it may be smart to start very slow. But if 10mg daily is like a drop of water in a bathtub then maybe that doesn’t make sense to start slower and 20mg daily may be better. Just thinking out loud here. And want to minimize side effects short and long term as much as possible.

Even a drop of water in the bath tub, eventually fills it up 😁

Some broscience incoming here, so take it with a pinch of salt:

You have a “genetic potential” for muscle mass, where your genetic makeup is gonna say - nah, don’t really need more.

This potential can be crushed through with steroids, and it's how literal beefcake humans exist - but once they stop taking steroids, they will start going back down to their “intended size” (with some variation since there are some permanent changes to your muscle cells from steroid use).

My point being:
As long as you are under this “genetic limit” and you stay active, exercise and don’t take long breaks causing muscle breakdown because it’s not in use. Then the boost in protein synthesis from steroids will help you accumulate muscle faster, no matter how low the dose is.

So start with 10, see how if works for you. People are different, some respond great to a low dose, some needs a bit more.

your workout program and diet also plays a major role. Steroids don’t really over-ride those before you go i to higher dosages 😉

 

[dionysos]

The responses i get from a bunch of people here. That's unhealthy and you're going to damage yourself. We're concerned about your health. blah blah blah.

To be fair Raw, five pounds a week at the start is not extreme weight loss for someone almost 100 pounds over Normal Weight. That is only 1 pound per week above the drug designer's target loss of 1-4 pounds per week.

In any event Cavalier is unlikely to sustain that rate of loss for much longer which is a good thing in my view.

 

[Bacchus]

Wow, thanks for the info! I’ll ask my doc about that. IS there a brand or type i should ask for? Amount, dosage, etc? If she wont/cant prescribe it, is there one you recommend i can get thru either grey or online that works well and is safe? Again, being new to this whole world of test and ster i dont know what really to look for. I’d be all on board with subq test, just dont know where to look or what to look for. And maybe you’re right, that may be best to start and then add anavar later if needed. As the gel is working but not as much as id like.

The typical favourite in the US is test cyp. Personally i prefer enanthate. Depends on how oftwn you are comfortable with injecting.

While you can do them subq, it can leave some annoying lumps. IM of 0.5-1ml test is a lot less scary than it seems - but i understand the hessitation.

In my opinion, any veraion that helps you keep stable levels is preferable. Gel is not really the best option for that.

Your doc should be able to prescribe it for you and assist you with any questions. If she doesn’t I can point you in the direction, but I would prefer if you go via your doctor 🙂 (or a trt clinic, though i think they charge a lot more than what’s “fair”)

 

[Bacchus]

The responses i get from a bunch of people here. That's unhealthy and you're going to damage yourself. We're concerned about your health. blah blah blah.

blah blah blah.

Hehe, i think it might be because of your researcher spirit and willingness to be your own guinea pig.

So I wouldn’t be very surprised if what you are doing in reality is significantly safer than it might seem for us when reading 😉

 

[dionysos]

Wow, thanks for the info! I’ll ask my doc about that. IS there a brand or type i should ask for? Amount, dosage, etc? If she wont/cant prescribe it, is there one you recommend i can get thru either grey or online that works well and is safe? Again, being new to this whole world of test and ster i dont know what really to look for. I’d be all on board with subq test, just dont know where to look or what to look for. And maybe you’re right, that may be best to start and then add anavar later if needed. As the gel is working but not as much as id like.

In all things related to prescription drug dosages you should rely upon your MD's advice.

She sounds very clued up about peptides and TRT. Mention sub-Q injections, better uptake, and compounded testosterone when you guys talk then let her take it from there; you'll get the right answers from the best-informed professional source.

 

[milos]

@Cavalier -> both @dionysos and @Bacchus have given you detailed answers, so I can only add a detail that 20mg of Oxandrolone/Anavar will indeed make a big difference:

Effects of androgen therapy on adipose tissue and metabolism in older men - PubMed

We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

(note this was without a diet)

Even 10mg is not just a drop ... there will be a difference for sure!

Anyway, you are doing well so far, congratulations and keep up the good work!

 

[mostlydamp]

At the risk of reviving an old thread I wanted to add a follow up to my TRT situation. It could help others here. With symptoms of low T I contacted an online TRT company. I got labs done to get a baseline and found out I am a genetic freak walking around making 1071 ng/dL without any special effort. I mean I lost most of the weight and am healthy, good sleep. But this is apparently like unicorn level testosterone. I feel like I win the lottery! 🙂

Test your testosterone before using anything that affects it folks! If I took testosterone blindly I would in the long run only tank my production to some degree.

 

[Dee X]

At the risk of reviving an old thread I wanted to add a follow up to my TRT situation. It could help others here. With symptoms of low T I contacted an online TRT company. I got labs done to get a baseline and found out I am a genetic freak walking around making 1071 ng/dL without any special effort. I mean I lost most of the weight and am healthy, good sleep. But this is apparently like unicorn level testosterone. I feel like I win the lottery! 🙂

Test your testosterone before using anything that affects it folks! If I took testosterone blindly I would in the long run only tank my production to some degree.

No wonder you're mostly damp, got that T leaking out of you.

 

[SlimReaper]

Glad you guys are discussing oxandrolone. Let me mention my favorite study of it.

FIVE-YEAR OUTCOMES AFTER LONG-TERM OXANDROLONE ADMINISTRATION IN SEVERELY BURNED CHILDREN: A RANDOMIZED CLINICAL TRIAL - PMC

Administration of oxandrolone, a non-aromatizable testosterone analog, to children for 12 months following severe burn injury has been shown to improve height, increase bone mineral content (BMC), reduce cardiac work, and augment muscle strength. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study gave burned kids under 18 oxandrolone for 1 year at .1mg / kg twice daily. Study found they had denser, stronger bones, no negatives were found on their natural testosterone levels and they grew lean body mass (and grew taller but it won't affect adults). I plan to follow the same at a slightly less dose around 15mg a day (goal weight is 180 so .2mg / kg would be 16mg and I can't get that accurate of a dose so I'll just stick with 15mg to not risk suppression and keep it easy) for a very long time.

Haven't thoroughly looked at that study in a while so correct me if I'm wrong or missed anything.