Tirz is tirz - T or F?

[Labcat]

We’ve all heard “tirz is tirz”, yet our lore is very much that everyone responds differently and even compounders formulations behave differently. Which really goes against the basic concepts behind pharmacology (generics) and chemistry itself.

Other than being shorted on mgs due to errors or decomposition, what’s the science idea behind our belief? Please explain like I’m 5, but a very demanding 5 🙂.

I’ve seen a number of semi technical yet still ambiguous posts on different forums hinting that even the same API could somehow be different, and it’s never been clear to me what is meant by that chemically.

Maybe HPLC can’t separate very similar molecules? But if so could someone in the know explain please how that suffices to be used to confirm identity in analytical chemistry?

I’d like if y’all could share explanations in chemistry rather than analogy, using the basics like “electrons” or “orbitals” or “conformation”, perhaps with a specific example (which could be theoretical )… rather than be more general. General can be true but I don’t know enough to have it seem other than handwavy

 

[cheaperseeker]

We’ve all heard “tirz is tirz”, yet our lore is very much that everyone responds differently and even compounders formulations behave differently. Which really goes against the basic concepts behind pharmacology (generics) and chemistry itself.

I'm not up for getting into all the chemistry, but as a medical professional, I can tell you that this does not go against the basic concepts of pharmacology. People can and do respond differently to every medication out there, even when it's the same dose, from the same manufacturer. While we can generally expect similar results in most cases, there are thousands of different biological and environmental factors involved in how each individual may respond to any given medication.

 

[Labcat]

I'm not up for getting into all the chemistry, but as a medical professional, I can tell you that this does not go against the basic concepts of pharmacology. People can and do respond differently to every medication out there, even when it's the same dose, from the same manufacturer. While we can generally expect similar results in most cases, there are thousands of different biological and environmental factors involved in how each individual may respond to any given medication.

Yes and no, what I’m saying awkwardly is the it’s a matter of degree that we’ve gone very far out to. Medication to be approved needs to display a predictable overarcing behavior, expected results with a quite rigid protocol, and generally for the great majority of people (with the correct diagnosis.). Maybe an alternate question is why the qualifying studies don’t show this? Everyone got on the same protocols and 90% lost a shockingly large amount of weight without medication adjustment.
I think one thing that promotes so much belief that anything can happen to anyone at any time is that many telehealths answer questions from patients, but have secondary gain to keep patients enrolled by justifying why some phenomenon is happening. And glp users pay attention to what they are instructed and take it in.

Another way to say it is that our concept of generics is based on the tenet that tirz is tirz. But sure, show me how the chemical or biochemical variability can happen, and I’m not averse to modifying what I think. I really am more of an agnostic at this moment, and I think more of us should be curious. Give me data or theoretical reasoning that is not primarily not analogy based.

As a medical professional, couls you can point me at the chemistry you know so I can start to get a better understanding?

 

[IshimaruKenta]

What is "t or f?"

 

[cheaperseeker]

The results of studies are often skewed because people are removed or drop out of them for various reasons. Participants may even lie about their results.

I was once involved in a medication study. After several weeks I reported that I didn't think the medication was working. They told me if it still wasn't working by my next visit, I would be removed from the study. As I was only 19 and they were paying me a small amount, I decided to lie about my results, so that I could continue. At the time, I didn't fully understand how unethical that was on my part.

While it would be difficult to lie about weight, unless it was self-reported, non-responders could have been removed from the studies.

There are lots of podcasts and YouTube videos about GLP-1s that might answer some of your questions. I like Fat Science with Dr Emily Cooper. You could also try to find a used pharmacology textbook online.

 

[cheaperseeker]

What is "t or f?"

True or False

 

[Labcat]

The results of studies are often skewed because people are removed or drop out of them for various reasons. Participants may even lie about their results.

I was once involved in a medication study. After several weeks I reported that I didn't think the medication was working. They told me if it still wasn't working by my next visit, I would be removed from the study. As I was only 19 and they were paying me a small amount, I decided to lie about my results, so that I could continue. At the time, I didn't fully understand how unethical that was on my part.

While it would be difficult to lie about weight, unless it was self-reported, non-responders could have been removed from the studies.

There are lots of podcasts and YouTube videos about GLP-1s that might answer some of your questions. I like Fat Science with Dr Emily Cooper. You could also try to find a used pharmacology textbook online.

That’s good thinking. I will say that dropouts from studies are accounted for in the stats by assigning them to the failure group. Harsh, but legit. So at least we don’t have to worry about that unless the study is majorly flawed. And the fda ones typically are not.

You have foind why study participants should be volunteers. Though actually for an otherwise formally unobtainable drug like reta for instance, I know people can be motivated to lie to stay in the study. (And accumulate med stockpile.) This problem is actually squarely the study sponsor’s fault… typically when this kind of secondary gain is an obvious temptation, the study reassures everyone that at the end of the study they will have access to an equal period of free drug if they wish ( as part of the study). This lets them do a kind of crossover study as well, helping to verify that the drug can work in a second population.
I do have my pharmacology books! But I think I need deeper chemistry texts. (Help!)
Will check out fat scientist, thx

 

[IshimaruKenta]

True or False

😂 that took me way too long to try to figure it out.

 

[Labcat]

😂 that took me way too long to try to figure it out.

Some of us have brains filled only with junk like this.