Constrained Energy Expenditure

[5byfive]

Weight loss is mostly about diet. I am a big believer in cardio but it just doesn't move the scale the way we used to think it did. We have known this for awhile, buf the evidence keeps stacking up. You can't out run a bad diet. It is interesting that this does not seem to apply to resistance training. Short snd concise video. Menno Henselmans is the gold standard for me as far as breaking down research goes..

View: https://youtu.be/yiclzDPIyQ0?si

 

[Rezwalker]

its easier to not eat 500 cal than burn 500 cal doing cardio

 

[N Sharp]

It's so easy to over-estimate how many calories we burn.

Just as easy to under-estimate how many calories we eat.

Great resource, thanks for sharing!

 

[wildweasel]

everything in this thread seems correct.

Fasted cardio is worth a mention though. Performing your cardio fasted forces your body to mobilize fat and glycogen stores. its not going to override a poor diet or excess cals, but it is going to bias where your body pulls energy towards reducing fat stores instead of pulling from food cals.

 

[Grogu]

It's so easy to over-estimate how many calories we burn.

Just as easy to under-estimate how many calories we eat.

Great resource, thanks for sharing!

1,000% agree with the under-estimation of calories consumed. Portion sizes are so out of whack, labels misleading, and most people just despise counting calories.

I personally count 5 days a week and restrict calories in, but I view that more as an estimate than an exact figure. I think it's "close enough for government work".

As far as calories out, I've never adjusted calories consumed for burn, except for overall estimated TDEE for my level of activity. That number has decreased as I've lost weight as has the calories in.

When I first started on tirz, I didn't count calories, because I thought that "normal" weight folks don't count calories. But my TDEE was so high (3,400) that just cutting back was enough.

 

[Grogu]

Weight loss is mostly about diet. I am a big believer in cardio but it just doesn't move the scale the way we used to think it did. We have known this for awhile, buf the evidence keeps stacking up. You can't out run a bad diet. It is interesting that this does not seem to apply to resistance training. Short snd concise video. Menno Henselmans is the gold standard for me as far as breaking down research goes..

View: https://youtu.be/yiclzDPIyQ0?si

Yes, you definitely can't out run or out walk a bad diet. There is this guy in my neighborhood, who's as tall is he is round. Nice fellow. He walks during the peak heat in south Florida all bundled up in athletic wear. He's been doing it for years. It doesn't look like he's lost any weight in all these years. One time I was at the grocery store and eye-spied his cart and did an inventory, and it was full of all bad food stuffs. (I was so jealous 🤣).

Before I get slammed, I'm not saying that cardio doesn't have health benefits that go beyond weight loss and I do think that cardio is good. But for weight loss, not so much.

 

[Hawk_recon]

It's so easy to over-estimate how many calories we burn.

Just as easy to under-estimate how many calories we eat.

Great resource, thanks for sharing!

These two things are probably the biggest failure points of anyone looking to lose, IMO. Gotta stay vigilant and strict to see long-term consistent results.

 

[N Sharp]

1,000% agree with the under-estimation of calories consumed. Portion sizes are so out of whack, labels misleading, and most people just despise counting calories.

I personally count 5 days a week and restrict calories in, but I view that more as an estimate than an exact figure. I think it's "close enough for government work".

As far as calories out, I've never adjusted calories consumed for burn, except for overall estimated TDEE for my level of activity. That number has decreased as I've lost weight as has the calories in.

When I first started on tirz, I didn't count calories, because I thought that "normal" weight folks don't count calories. But my TDEE was so high (3,400) that just cutting back was enough.

Exactly, I did the same thing when I started tirz too because I wanted to "eat intuitively."

Well, turns out that's a bunch of hoopla - if I had known how to "eat intuitively," I would've never overeaten in the first place.

Not to mention the whole health & fitness industry is oversaturated with misinformation - so even if you do get a food scale and learn how to navigate cryptic nutrition labels, you're riddled with doubt when it comes to trusting the process!

I'm glad you've found a system that works and is sustainable for you - once I started getting really familiar with my own portions, I was also able to relax quite a bit and just adjust eating based on weekly weigh-ins.

 

[Smiter]

But my TDEE was so high (3,400)

what? how? How large were you?

I'm not saying that cardio doesn't have health benefits that go beyond weight loss

Stay strong, sis...cardio suxx...even if it doesnt.

It's so easy to over-estimate how many calories we burn.

Just as easy to under-estimate how many calories we eat.

PREACH!

Fasted cardio is worth a mention though. Performing your cardio fasted forces your body to mobilize fat and glycogen stores. its not going to override a poor diet or excess cals, but it is going to bias where your body pulls energy towards reducing fat stores instead of pulling from food cals.

This is Au. Turn it to platinum by elevating thermogenesis in our bodies and our TDEE goes up. Without logging in any workouts, one 4 hour workout yesterday aided by thermogeneics showed these numbers on the watch's app.

 

[wildweasel]

When I first started on tirz, I didn't count calories, because I thought that "normal" weight folks don't count calories. But my TDEE was so high (3,400) that just cutting back was enough.

I dont think most 'normal' weight folks do count calories, i think most of them are able to get by with just feels.

I learned counting calories is powerful AF and apps like cronometer and having a food scale make it really easy to do now.

personally, when i dont count calories i had at bvest about a 15% bf... at one point i got up to 20%+ several years ago before i started trying to aggressively "eat healthy" but never could go below 15% bf or so.

Now, i count calories, and when i started it blew me away how easiy it was to control my body composition however i wanted...

I was at 165lbs when i started counting cals and had this stubborn belly fat (~15% bf at the time) that would not go away despite quite literally over a year of trying to get rid of it... within 8 weeks or so i was down to 155lbs ~10% bf and no stubborn belly fat, and since then i've added on about 20 pounds of lean muscle without adding any body fat.

counting calories is powerful

 

[wildweasel]

But my TDEE was so high (3,400)

what? how? How large were you?

I'm right around there too. My target intake cals for cutting is 3k and i loose bf pretty damn quick. 3300 or so leaves me neutral and 3500 is where i begin to bulk.

 

[N Sharp]

These two things are probably the biggest failure points of anyone looking to lose, IMO. Gotta stay vigilant and strict to see long-term consistent results.

Exactly, it takes so long to see results - folks end up quitting before they give it a real shot.

I learned counting calories is powerful AF and apps like cronometer and having a food scale make it really easy to do now.

Now, i count calories, and when i started it blew me away how easiy it was to control my body composition however i wanted...

This^^^ Once you lock-in & trust calorie-counting, it's like magic. Congratulations on such an incredible recomp, so happy for you!

 

[randompersonrandom]

Yes, and...a conversation that I think needs to co-occur in almost every conversation about how cardio/exercise/movement will not make you thin is that "make me thinner" is not what that's for.

Eating fewer calories is for "getting thinner." Exercise (including cardio) is for "not looking and feeling like hot garbage even when you're thinner."

I'm 128 pounds now, 5'5". I got most of the way here entirely by fewer calories on tirz, VERY light exercise, and about a month ago, I thought "hoo girl, you gotta get off your ass. You look like hell, flabby and loose, and where tf is your endurance and balance that you always had in such high supply and felt so proud of?" Bought a bicycle, got a gym membership, long walks at night for fun, and I look and feel a LOT better than I was for awhile there.

 

[wildweasel]

Yes, and...a conversation that I think needs to co-occur in almost every conversation about how cardio/exercise/movement will not make you thin is that "make me thinner" is not what that's for.

Eating fewer calories is for "getting thinner." Exercise (including cardio) is for "not looking and feeling like hot garbage even when you're thinner."

I'm 128 pounds now, 5'5". I got most of the way here entirely by fewer calories on tirz, VERY light exercise, and about a month ago, I thought "hoo girl, you gotta get off your ass. You look like hell, flabby and loose, and where tf is your endurance and balance that you always had in such high supply and felt so proud of?" Bought a bicycle, got a gym membership, long walks at night for fun, and I look and feel a LOT better than I was for awhile there.

Happy to read this, good job, cheering for you.

Totally agree. Gotta use exercise as something that improves your health, makes you toned, and makes you feel good, but its not going to make anyone magically skinny.

someone earlier in the thread said that its easier to not eat 500 calories than it is to burn an additional 500 calories during cardio, and, thats pretty damn true for most people

 

[Grogu]

what? how? How large were you?

I was a big guy (6’4” and 335) when I started tirzepatide. And based on my age and activity level my TDEE was 3,400 calories. Sounds like a huge number as I eat about 1,800 now.

 

[wildweasel]

one 4 hour workout yesterday aided by thermogeneics showed these numbers on the watch's app.

What do you use? caffeine or something else?

I was a big guy (6’4” and 335) when I started tirzepatide. And based on my age and activity level my TDEE was 3,400 calories. Sounds like a huge number as I eat about 1,800 now.

goddam, i do hybrid training for over 20 hours every week and thats my TDEE. Its like a part time job and you had that energy expenditure just by being alive.

Im cheering for your progress, where you at now in body weight?

 

[Grogu]

I learned counting calories is powerful AF and apps like cronometer and having a food scale make it really easy to do now.

personally, when i dont count calories i had at bvest about a 15% bf... at one point i got up to 20%+ several years ago before i started trying to aggressively "eat healthy" but never could go below 15% bf or so.

Now, i count calories, and when i started it blew me away how easiy it was to control my body composition however i wanted...

I was at 165lbs when i started counting cals and had this stubborn belly fat (~15% bf at the time) that would not go away despite quite literally over a year of trying to get rid of it... within 8 weeks or so i was down to 155lbs ~10% bf and no stubborn belly fat, and since then i've added on about 20 pounds of lean muscle without adding any body fat.

counting calories is powerful

I love cronometer. I was using Nourish’s app because I was seeing a nutritionist (for free through my health plan) for about 4 or 5 months and their proprietary app allowed me to take pictures of my meals and we had some pretty funny conversations around those pictures. The nutritionist convinced me that not all carbs are bad.

Yes, counting calories is powerful.

 

[Smiter]

What do you use? caffeine or something else?

Anavar, modafinil, Asia Black-25, Euphoria.

 

[Grogu]

Yes, and...a conversation that I think needs to co-occur in almost every conversation about how cardio/exercise/movement will not make you thin is that "make me thinner" is not what that's for.

Eating fewer calories is for "getting thinner." Exercise (including cardio) is for "not looking and feeling like hot garbage even when you're thinner."

Totally agree with all of this, which is why I put a disclaimer in my post that I’m not discounting the benefits of cardio or exercise in general 😂.

Problem is that people have been told for years that if they eat salads and exercise that they will miraculously become thin. Meanwhile, salad dressing can be 150 calories in two tablespoons, but who uses only 2 tablespoons…. Add toppings and protein, a salad can easily reach 1,000 calories. A brisk 30-minute walk, maybe 150 calories?

I’ve lost most of my weight “this time” with only light exercise, but strict calorie control.

 

[lastresort]

Most TDEE calculators are unreliable because they don't take your fat % and lean mass into accounts. Even indirect calorimetry machine (the one you blow your air into) is not accurate. I once got an estimate of 3100kcal when I used to go to a weight loss clinic and the staff members - who are probably not even BS degree holding nurses lol - told me with straight faces this was my maintenance calories. I had to do my best job to not snort at their dumb faces.

The only true way to measure your BMR is to do a 24 hour metabolic chamber to accurate measure oxygen usages and carbon dioxide productions. This is unfortunately not available to peons like us because metabolic chambers are super expensive and there are only about 40-50 in the whole world.

 

[wildweasel]

Anavar, modafinil, Asia Black-25, Euphoria.

we share the first thing of our pre-workout stacks 😀

Problem is that people have been told for years that if they eat salads and exercise that they will miraculously become thin. Meanwhile, salad dressing can be 150 calories in two tablespoons, but who uses only 2 tablespoons…. Add toppings and protein, a salad can easily reach 1,000 calories. A brisk 30-minute walk, maybe 150 calories?

this got me when i was in my "just cycle and eat healthy" phase. i bought store bought kits and saw the calories but had no way to gauge them comparatively until counting calories in an app.

Bagged salad dressings destroy my macros. I still enjoy the occasional salad, but i make my own dressings now, generally using bases like 2% keffir, yogurt, etc... for creaminess.

Most TDEE calculators are unreliable because they don't take your fat % and lean mass into accounts. Even indirect calorimetry machine (the one you blow your air into) is not accurate. I once got an estimate of 3100kcal when I used to go to a weight loss clinic and the staff members - who are probably not even BS degree holding nurses lol - told me with straight faces this was my maintenance calories. I had to do my best job to not snort at their dumb faces.

The only true way to measure your BMR is to do a 24 hour metabolic chamber to accurate measure oxygen usages and carbon dioxide productions. This is unfortunately not available to peons like us because metabolic chambers are super expensive and there are only about 40-50 in the whole world.

True, thats the way to get an exact answer, but what most people I've spokent to (including now myself) generally do instead when they want a real answer is start with a TDEE calculator or another rough estimate, and track macros watching weigtht changes over time adjusting daily expenditure until you become more-or-less weight neutral.

within a few weeks to a month you can generally get pretty darn close to what your daily expected ependiture is just by watching the scale and counting calories.

 

[Grogu]

Bagged salad dressings destroy my macros. I still enjoy the occasional salad, but i make my own dressings now, generally using bases like 2% keffir, yogurt, etc... for creaminess.

I love salads too! And eat them. Don't want to give the impression that I think salads and exercise are bad 🤣.

Totally agree about the macros. Regular salad dressing and kits screws all that up. I usually use Bolthouse Dressing that's 40 calories for 2 tablespoons.

Pre-weight loss, my usual "go to" dressing would have been anything by Ken's Steak House. Blue cheese, Russian, Thousand Islands, Greek, Honey Mustard, Creamy Ceaser, etc. I love them all. Add some croutons and some chicken and that would have been an entire meal. A 1,000 calorie meal.

I've discovered that unlike some people that are addicted to sweets, I'm addicted to fat.

 

[Smiter]

There's something seriously wrong with my energy matrix. I took 40mcg clenbuterol, 200 modafinil, and Anavar...and I'm sleepy.

I'm addicted to fat.

If you could have eaten yours...what a win...Autophagy 9000

 

[spanky2026]

I figured out decades ago that exercise wasn't the ticket, spent way too many years fanatically exercising, whole gym rat thing 6 days a week, never made a dent in my weight. On Tirz I've actually dialed back my workouts, concentrating on strength training, but no longer fanatical about it. Because I know while it has other benefits, especially at my age, it isn't the Golden Ticket it's been sold as.

 

[FartfulCodger]

This is the truth. I lost a huge amount of weight in a short time on Tirzepatide and I have no illusions about how I got there. I curbed my eating because I wasn't hungry. It wasn't the 10k steps per day or more efficient use of insulin. Sure, they played a part, but it was minor.

When it comes to GLP meds, somehow the role of appetite control is a controversial topic on reddit. If you suggest that appetite control is the driving force behind weight loss on GLP meds, you'll get downvoted by 100 Karens. You can go to an A.I. engine and ask it "How much of the weight loss on GLP-1 meds is due to appetite control versus changes to metabolism?" A.I. will scan medical articles and come back attributing 80%-90% of the weight loss to appetite control. But the Karens won't have it. It's all about glucagon, insulin, and metabolism.

Not sure why they have so much skin in the game. I keep my excess skin tucked under my belt.

 

[Grogu]

If you could have eaten yours...what a win...Autophagy 9000

Yeah, that would have been a win-win 🤣, but I like processed fats like butter, cream, dressings, cream sauces, cured meats, and CHEESE.

I’d take a charcuterie board over a slice of cake any day. Add a glass of wine and you had me at hello.

 

[Hawk_recon]

This is the truth. I lost a huge amount of weight in a short time on Tirzepatide and I have no illusions about how I got there. I curbed my eating because I wasn't hungry. It wasn't the 10k steps per day or more efficient use of insulin. Sure, they played a part, but it was minor.

When it comes to GLP meds, somehow the role of appetite control is a controversial topic on reddit. If you suggest that appetite control is the driving force behind weight loss on GLP meds, you'll get downvoted by 100 Karens. You can go to an A.I. engine and ask it "How much of the weight loss on GLP-1 meds is due to appetite control versus changes to metabolism?" A.I. will scan medical articles and come back attributing 80%-90% of the weight loss to appetite control. But the Karens won't have it. It's all about glucagon, insulin, and metabolism.

Not sure why they have so much skin in the game. I keep my excess skin tucked under my belt.

100%. There's no magic to it really. Less appetite equals less calories. Of course there's more to it than just that with these drugs, but the vast majority of the weight loss is due to that. People like to "major in the minors" sometimes, as they say 🤭

 

[wildweasel]

I figured out decades ago that exercise wasn't the ticket, spent way too many years fanatically exercising, whole gym rat thing 6 days a week, never made a dent in my weight

I wouldn't say its not the ticket, i think its more accurate to say its only part of the ticket.

This is the truth. I lost a huge amount of weight in a short time on Tirzepatide and I have no illusions about how I got there. I curbed my eating because I wasn't hungry. It wasn't the 10k steps per day or more efficient use of insulin. Sure, they played a part, but it was minor.

When it comes to GLP meds, somehow the role of appetite control is a controversial topic on reddit. If you suggest that appetite control is the driving force behind weight loss on GLP meds, you'll get downvoted by 100 Karens. You can go to an A.I. engine and ask it "How much of the weight loss on GLP-1 meds is due to appetite control versus changes to metabolism?" A.I. will scan medical articles and come back attributing 80%-90% of the weight loss to appetite control. But the Karens won't have it. It's all about glucagon, insulin, and metabolism.

Not sure why they have so much skin in the game. I keep my excess skin tucked under my belt.

reddits full of a bunch of tards. 95% tards.

 

[Smiter]

reddits full of a bunch of tards. 95% tards.

That should track because 98% of all humanity are sheep. Average IQ is around 100. As a social media website, it would make sense that the majority there too are disabled. Combine that with the average age of the Redditors, their bleating would seem more disabled than usual because they haven't yet developed the two neurons that would make up their future prefrontal cortex.

 

[UghItsStupidNIHateIT]

Weight loss is mostly about diet. I am a big believer in cardio but it just doesn't move the scale the way we used to think it did. We have known this for awhile, buf the evidence keeps stacking up. You can't out run a bad diet. It is interesting that this does not seem to apply to resistance training. Short snd concise video. Menno Henselmans is the gold standard for me as far as breaking down research goes..

View: https://youtu.be/yiclzDPIyQ0?si

My really good friend eats an insane amount of food, like 4000+ calories a day, and he weight trains for three hours daily. But it’s literally one minute on, three minute rest and he has 11% body fat. It doesn’t mean anything, just bemoaning the perceived unfairness of the situation 🤣