United States Vendors Worth?

[msyntakz]

Apologies if this is clearly covered, and I am just not finding it. Tongue-lashings accepted if needed.

Assumptions going into this:
1. YOLO-ing peptides is not accepted; safety is a priority.
2. Broad-spectrum testing is a non-negotiable, not just quantity/purity.
3. Buying single vials and single kits, not bulk buys.

What I am wondering is it always the financially smarter decision to go to China directly, manage your own testing/group testing, etc, or are there situations where a vendor from the United States that does broad batch testing makes more sense? Or are you finding that US-based vendors are universally a convenience charge, from the markup?

If I am only buying one kit, sacrificing a vial for testing, plus fees for testing compound quantities, purity, sterility, endo, heavy metals, etc... all the things that make sense to test for, are there situations where U.S. makes more sense, and your net cost per milligram is actually better than China directly, because they batch test?

This also brings into question, are there any of the U.S. vendors that you are trusting with their COAs?

I am happy to do the more manual process via China directly if that's always the better way, but I don't want to make a decision purely based on the current trend. All input is appreciated!

 

[gusterbuster]

My response isn't necessarily answering your question. But for my risk tolerance, as long as the cap color matches the COA from the vendor whether US or CN, I YOLO it.

If you're patient a group buy like rat cartel probably checks off most of your boxes. Group buy with that batch being tested. Dont have to worry about COA being from 3 batches ago.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

This also brings into question, are there any of the U.S. vendors that you are trusting with their COAs?

There is no vendor whose COA you should trust. The incentive to cherry pick good reports and not release bad ones exists no matter where the vendor is located.

Ask yourself: If this vendor catches a bad report do you trust them to throw the inventory in the trash and eat the loss? Because that's what you're requiring of them if you're blindly trusting their COAs. I personally do not put that much faith in the caliber of anonymous folks that are willing to sell underground lab injectables, against whom you have no recourse if there is indeed an issue.

You MIGHT get me to come around on trusting quality of one of these services like Hims or whatever since they are going concerns whose ownership is a matter of public record and who might therefore be held accountable for criminal negligence, but those places probably arent selling the funner stuff anyway now that Lilly and friends have started sending them nastygrams.

 

[5byfive]

The smart play both financially and for safely is to buy Chinese, from US warehouses or shipped from China, and find a group testing that batch. I've bought a couple vials from US resellers and gotten away with it without issues, but both the price and the risk is much higher. Its for better to get involved with some telegram groups and actually test the products you are getting. You might pay $40-$50 towards testing a couple vials (usually with endos also being tested after recent events) plus the cost of the peps, but thats probably still less than a couple vials from a US reseller and then you can be fairly sure what you have has actually been tested. Plus, if you get involved in these groups, you may find some things you don't have to pay to test all. I have four 3rd party COAs for my last batch of Reta just from people posting their results. Not a prefect system, but its as good as you are going to get in the gray market.

 

[miameow]

If we are prioritizing the financial aspect, buying through a popular GB, then having it 3p tested as a group, is the most economic way.

 

[Dos-Dox]

@msyntakz It sounds like getting into the group buy scene may be a good fit for you. You can generally get better prices than going straight to the vendor because the GB Vendor is buying in bulk and the shipping fees are just the reship charges domestically (usually $10-$15 for shipping/admin fees total). A lot of groups are starting to do more than just M/P. There are some Lobster buys that just opened today that are M/P/E, some always do sterility now, and some almost always do LCMS. It’s just a matter of finding the group that is consistently doing the testing you want and getting plugged in. And the ones that don’t bake the “extra” testing (like sterility, endo, LCMS, fent) into the cost normally form groups where you can optionally join to do the extra testing. That’s a lot more cost effective than trying to do it all on your own and almost guarantees you can find other people who want to test as well.

The other benefit is your name doesn’t end up on a customs list. But, they do go sideways sometimes and you do have to be patient. I just got an order yesterday that I placed before 1/20. They’re normally more like 6-8 weeks, but there are never any guarantees.

 

[woundcarping]

Group buys with mass/purity to confirm what's in the vial, endos to make sure it's reasonable.... no point in sterility, just filter it.

Make sure the group tests more than one stupid vial per peptide.

 

[kj4otu]

About the only thing i have seen where the price/unit comes out pro "high end" vendor is with Klow/Glow. IF you actually do full spectrum testing, then the prices for singles at the "higher end" US vendors that provide such testing with it is not that bad compared to buying singles from China and having the testing done. Klow/Glow testing is EXPENSIVE at all the labs I have looked at.

The caveats of using "high end US" vendors: Do you trust that their tests are real? Can you find such a vendor that claims to do all the testing (there are some)?

 

[BNLFL]

Group buys with mass/purity to confirm what's in the vial, endos to make sure it's reasonable.... no point in sterility, just filter it.

Make sure the group tests more than one stupid vial per peptide.

Facts right here. Pretty much all I do, as waiting isn’t a issue anymore.

 

[IronCircuit]

Apologies if this is clearly covered, and I am just not finding it. Tongue-lashings accepted if needed.

Assumptions going into this:
1. YOLO-ing peptides is not accepted; safety is a priority.
2. Broad-spectrum testing is a non-negotiable, not just quantity/purity.
3. Buying single vials and single kits, not bulk buys.

What I am wondering is it always the financially smarter decision to go to China directly, manage your own testing/group testing, etc, or are there situations where a vendor from the United States that does broad batch testing makes more sense? Or are you finding that US-based vendors are universally a convenience charge, from the markup?

If I am only buying one kit, sacrificing a vial for testing, plus fees for testing compound quantities, purity, sterility, endo, heavy metals, etc... all the things that make sense to test for, are there situations where U.S. makes more sense, and your net cost per milligram is actually better than China directly, because they batch test?

This also brings into question, are there any of the U.S. vendors that you are trusting with their COAs?

I am happy to do the more manual process via China directly if that's always the better way, but I don't want to make a decision purely based on the current trend. All input is appreciated!

I agree with you completely.

 

[Ruckus4519]

I'm surprised GBs get mentioned so much. I thought they were generally discouraged. Or is that only STG?

 

[indolent]

I'm surprised GBs get mentioned so much. I thought they were generally discouraged. Or is that only STG?

They ARE highly discouraged here. I assume that's because every pissant reseller tries to get in on the game, and often turns out to be incompetent and/or dishonest. And running one requires a high degree of competence plus a good sense for risk management.

The key is to find one with a good track record and a good history of satisfied customers. Another key is to manage your own expectations: longer wait, no hand-holding, bumps in the road. They also can be hard to join, and will then require waiting until what you're looking for is on offer, and in the vial mass you want. As always, don't risk more than you're willing to lose altogether because there's no recourse.

 

[Ruckus4519]

The ARE highly discouraged here. I assume that's because every pissant reseller tries to get in on the game, and often turns out to be incompetent and/or dishonest. And running one requires a high degree of competence plus a good sense for risk management.

The key is to find one with a good track record and a good history of satisfied customers. Another key is to manage your own expectations: longer wait, no hand-holding, bumps in the road. They also can be hard to join, and will then require waiting until what you're looking for is on offer, and in the vial mass you want. As always, don't risk more than you're willing to lose altogether because there's no recourse.

Haha yeah can confirm on incompetence, or at least disorganization. Almost got in for a GB, but the host wasn’t as responsive as I would like. Didn’t take my money though, so thats nice

 

[attcbf]

I am very happy I was turned on to GBs (thanks Bio Logic☺️). I do almost all of my purchases via various GBs and singles from their extra shops. They are not easy to find and you have to vet them before jumping into any GBs, as Indolent and Dos-Dox point out. But there are some that do the kind of testing that is mentioned here, either as part of the price, or with interested participants putting in a little money for extra testing.

 

[JuneBug1956]

I do all my purchases through group buys that include testing. I have my trusted resellers and have been using for almost 3 years. They do take more time from order to delivery unless they have stock or a US wharehouse. I trusted Skye COAs in the beginning of my journey…probably would still today but they are expensive.