Let's talk GLP1's downfall - MUSCLE LOSS

[tul9033]

So you've lost an enormous amount of weight. Have you noticed how much muscle mass you've lost?
Arguably the biggest drawback to GLP-1's is the loss of muscle mass. Many in the healthcare industry are espousing an early death due to GLP-1's rapid weight loss going hand in hand with rapid muscle loss. Older GLP-1 patients losing so much muscle mass they cannot gain back and will no longer be able to support their own body weight as they age.
Let's talk about gaining this muscle mass back. We have some great tools at our disposal: CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, Tesamorelin, GH, ABS.
What are you trying and what have been the results?

 

[chipspew]

I noticed this during my weight loss. Now that I am about 75% of the way to goal, I have started adding weightlifting to my treadmill walking. I have noticed quite an improvement already after about 6 weeks of doing resistance training. Weight loss is going slower, but that's probably a good thing.

Looking forward to find out more about various peptides that can help. Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[scarywood75]

So you've lost an enormous amount of weight. Have you noticed how much muscle mass you've lost?
Arguably the biggest drawback to GLP-1's is the loss of muscle mass. Many in the healthcare industry are espousing an early death due to GLP-1's rapid weight loss going hand in hand with rapid muscle loss. Older GLP-1 patients losing so much muscle mass they cannot gain back and will no longer be able to support their own body weight as they age.
Let's talk about gaining this muscle mass back. We have some great tools at our disposal: CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, Tesamorelin, GH, ABS.
What are you trying and what have been the results?

Ok, first muscle loss is caused by the rapid weight loss and not by GLP1s directly.

Second, GH in my opinion is not worth it given the risks of misuse and what it does to you.

Tesa and IPA would be safer, Enobosarm seems promising as per https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/doi2.109

 

[hexagonal]

So you've lost an enormous amount of weight. Have you noticed how much muscle mass you've lost?
Arguably the biggest drawback to GLP-1's is the loss of muscle mass. Many in the healthcare industry are espousing an early death due to GLP-1's rapid weight loss going hand in hand with rapid muscle loss. Older GLP-1 patients losing so much muscle mass they cannot gain back and will no longer be able to support their own body weight as they age.
Let's talk about gaining this muscle mass back. We have some great tools at our disposal: CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, Tesamorelin, GH, ABS.
What are you trying and what have been the results?

Resistance training and adequate protein intake are enough to stave off muscle loss for most people.

Increasing your IGF-1 might increase the muscle satellite cell proliferation but that won't do much of anything without the resistance training and protein as well.

 

[hexagonal]

Ok, first muscle loss is caused by the rapid weight loss and not by GLP1s directly.

Second, GH in my opinion is not worth it given the risks of misuse and what it does to you.

Tesa and IPA would be safer, Enobosarm seems promising as per https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/doi2.109

Chronically elevated IGF-1 levels from secretagogues will pose the same risks of those levels being reached via exogenous HGH, though.

 

[scarywood75]

Chronically elevated IGF-1 levels from secretagogues will pose the same risks of those levels being reached via exogenous HGH, though.

Yeah of course, all these are just to be taken temporarily

 

[indolent]

spinach

 

[normal]

I hit the gym the whole time I was losing. Best decision.

 

[seeker-seventy-six]

I thought this was a really interesting take on muscle loss with GLP-1s:

2:03:45

Dr. DeFronzo isn’t too worried about lean muscle loss with these meds because, overall, they help people with obesity move more and improve their health in so many ways. The benefits far outweigh the downsides for most people.


Sure, they might not be the best choice for an 80-year-old at high risk for sarcopenia, but for younger people—especially those with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes—these drugs can be game-changers for insulin resistance. As he puts it, food addiction is a huge health concern, and GLP-1s could be a key part of the solution.

 

[keangkong]

So you've lost an enormous amount of weight. Have you noticed how much muscle mass you've lost?
Arguably the biggest drawback to GLP-1's is the loss of muscle mass. Many in the healthcare industry are espousing an early death due to GLP-1's rapid weight loss going hand in hand with rapid muscle loss. Older GLP-1 patients losing so much muscle mass they cannot gain back and will no longer be able to support their own body weight as they age.
Let's talk about gaining this muscle mass back. We have some great tools at our disposal: CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, Tesamorelin, GH, ABS.
What are you trying and what have been the results?

The safest effective supplement for increasing strength is creatine. Pair it wish resistance exercise.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

Dr. DeFronzo isn’t too worried about lean muscle loss with these meds because, overall, they help people with obesity move more and improve their health in so many ways. The benefits far outweigh the downsides for most people.

yes, most start out morbidly obese and it's important to correct that situation as quickly as possible and get the fat out of the liver. get to a point where you can walk/jog/run.

so i won't be able to lift heavy things as well. so what.

 

[Healthmaster]

Heavy resistance training, high protein diet, testosterone therapy if you are a man, and hgh at therapeutic doses. Muscle will be retained. Starving yourself of course your gonna lose muscle mass, you have to feed the machine.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

its really impossible to burn fat and gain muscle at the same time or bodybuilders would have figured it out. bodybuilders are either in gain muscle and fat mode or reduce muscle and fat mode.

you can't change the laws of physics captain.

 

[CrabbyD]

its really impossible to burn fat and gain muscle at the same time or bodybuilders would have figured it out. bodybuilders are either in gain muscle and fat mode or reduce muscle and fat mode.

you can't change the laws of physics captain.

If you start with a lot of fat and little muscle, it's very easy to recomposition. The leaner you get the harder it is. I have definitely lost inches without losing pounds when I was 200+

 

[TetsuNW]

One can certainly lose fat and build muscle but there are specific circumstances to doing that. Ones which I believe, from the way people are talking and the reason they're here, would apply to the majority of people here.

This somewhat of a deep dive into the topic but those special circumstances are covered in the first few minutes.

On the subject of resistance training. It's a must imo, not just for GLP1 users, for everyone who wants a long healthy life.

No need for special supplements, eat enough protein 0.6-1g/lb, 0.3g fat per lb, the rest carbs eaten before you train. Start with walking if that's where you are at, add bands, then body weight, then dumbbells or kettlebells, trian 1-2 reps to failure, push a set every so often to failure. Once you feel like you've made some progress then look at getting more serious about resistance training. There are so many various ways to train and implements one can use, it's almost limitless, don't sweat the details, just find what you enjoy and benefit from.

 

[TetsuNW]

A couple playlists to help get you rolling with weights, this applies to any form of resistance training.

Fat Loss Dieting Made Simple

Делитесь видео с близкими и друзьями по всему миру

youtube.com

Hypertrophy Made Simple

Делитесь видео с близкими и друзьями по всему миру

youtube.com

Kettlebells are more advanced from a technique stand point, somewhere in between free weights and Olympic lifting, lmk if you want some info on them.

 

[geoguy78]

I think the whole muscle loss thing is overblown. Yeah, I've lost muscle. But I'm over 60 pounds lighter. I don't need all that muscle anymore to efficiently move my much lighter body around. That muscle developed to support a body that no longer exists. I ski a lot, and can actually ski without getting exhausted. And I've barely worked out since starting tirz.

 

[Mr. Smith]

Don't lose the weight fast... Eat right.. Work out... Gain muscle. I'm saying this after a year on Sema... Lost my weight and in great shape. Lost it SLOW on purpose... I'm talking maybe a 1lb a month slow... (But I only needed to lose 15lbs).

 

[hexagonal]

its really impossible to burn fat and gain muscle at the same time or bodybuilders would have figured it out. bodybuilders are either in gain muscle and fat mode or reduce muscle and fat mode.

you can't change the laws of physics captain.

This is true for bodybuilders, but they also are dieting to extreme levels of bf% for shows. 4-7%. Natural bodybuilders will lose more muscle, enhanced will lose less. And 'muscle memory' lets your body rebuild lost muscle mass pretty quick once you get back into a surplus. AAS are anti-catabolic but when you're going that low it's just basically impossible to not lose some - you might not even be able to get enough protein to begin with in your calorie budget depending on your size.

If you're just starting out and you've got a lot of fat to burn, you can gain muscle in a deficit for a good while - your muscles will just respond very well to stimulus and grow if you have adequate protein intake. After 9-12 months when the noob gains are tapering off it will get harder, and 'recomp' will be easier than building muscle in a deficit, but you'll be able to stay around the same body weight and be dropping fat + adding muscle. But recomp generally isn't as efficient as doing bulk/cut phases, yeah.

One thing to consider, though, is the more muscle, the more calories you burn. The 50 calories per day for a pound of muscle is a myth - you're looking at more like 10ish - but you can put 15-20 lb of muscle in that first year of consistent training, and another 12-15 in the second year with average genetics and no gear. ~300 extra calories a day burned. For men, if you go on TRT and they put you towards the top end of the range, you can do better than this. Women can benefit from TRT too, though generally to a lesser extent than men. I've decided I'd rather go to a much smaller deficit to keep building muscle at a good rate for as long as I can, and when that slows down too much, re-evaluate.

 

[TetsuNW]

I think it's more worthwhile to spend time researching how you can do resistance training than to worry about cut/gain/maintain/maingain/recomp. At the end of the day everyone will have a different situation, 5'2" 60yr 200lb woman is going to have different considerations than a 6' 40yr 250lb man when it comes to potential muscle loss and long term health outcomes.

Can you loss weight without resistance training on GLP-1S, of course. Will you better off long term adding resistance training, also of course.

I'll also add that kettlebells are probably the best methodology for overall health and general physical performance. They do take time to learn the proper form. Dollar for dollar and minute for minute of training they can't be beat, imo.

 

[hexagonal]

I've gotta disagree on the kettlebell thing, unfortunately. Progressive overload is the name of the game when it comes to effective resistance training, and for compound/dynamic movements like those that kettlebells are best at, most people are going to get better results with a barbell, even though it might seem scarier at first, and both have injury potential when used improperly.

You get additional stabilization from a barbell, incremental loading is easier, etc. You're much more likely to get limited by accessory muscles on kettlebell lifts, so you'll be getting the most muscle growth there, because they'll fail first - the primary muscles just aren't going to get as close to failure and as such not get as much growth stimulus.

I'd personally recommend barbells, dumbbells, cables/functional trainers, smith machines, plate/selectorized machines, etc., all as part of a routine before kettlebells.

Of course, doing what you enjoy and you personally find effective is way more important than doing what is "theoretically" best, so if kettlebells are what works for you, no hate there.

 

[Revo39564]

I lost 100 lbs in a little under 6 months and now down 142 lbs in 9 months … was 352 now 210….. lost muscle of course but don’t look like a crack head. Strength and muscle are normal for my weight … I am
Not lifting as much weight either
I had a size 52 waist ,now wear 34-36 “ …… buying large shirts instead of 4-5xl is great. The next phase is weight training to regain some muscle and see if muscle memory is real thing lol…

 

[DwightTheDelight]

I lost 100 lbs in a little under 6 months and now down 142 lbs in 9 months … was 352 now 210….. lost muscle of course but don’t look like a crack head. Strength and muscle are normal for my weight … I am
Not lifting as much weight either
I had a size 52 waist ,now wear 34-36 “ …… buying large shirts instead of 4-5xl is great. The next phase is weight training to regain some muscle and see if muscle memory is real thing lol…

Hell yeah! Good job.

I have a similar story to yours and will be entering rebuild mode here in the next couple of months.

I did do a couple DEXA scans throughout this process though. The first after the first 70lbs lost and another at 160 lbs down. Of those 90lbs lost between the scans, 1 out of every 4 lbs lost was lean mass. Probably not ideal, but I didn't think it was horrible considering I just sat at my work desk and melted for those 9 months. I'm now moving more/casually lifting and can already see a bit of muscle redeveloping. Excited for this next phase.

 

[Revo39564]

Hell yeah! Good job.

I have a similar story to yours and will be entering rebuild mode here in the next couple of months.

I did do a couple DEXA scans throughout this process though. The first after the first 70lbs lost and another at 160 lbs down. Of those 90lbs lost between the scans, 1 out of every 4 lbs lost was lean mass. Probably not ideal, but I didn't think it was horrible considering I just sat at my work desk and melted for those 9 months. I'm now moving more/ casually lifting and can already see a bit of muscle redeveloping. Excited for this next phase.

Yeah, I was thinking about getting a DEXA scan to see how much fat I have…. I was gonna lift weights for six months then have it done

 

[Revo39564]

Hell yeah! Good job.

I have a similar story to yours and will be entering rebuild mode here in the next couple of months.

I did do a couple DEXA scans throughout this process though. The first after the first 70lbs lost and another at 160 lbs down. Of those 90lbs lost between the scans, 1 out of every 4 lbs lost was lean mass. Probably not ideal, but I didn't think it was horrible considering I just sat at my work desk and melted for those 9 months. I'm now moving more/casually lifting and can already see a bit of muscle redeveloping. Excited for this next phase.

Yeah, that’s called the quarter ffm rule….. so you did perfect….

 

[nonyabizznez]

Hell yeah! Good job.

I have a similar story to yours and will be entering rebuild mode here in the next couple of months.

I did do a couple DEXA scans throughout this process though. The first after the first 70lbs lost and another at 160 lbs down. Of those 90lbs lost between the scans, 1 out of every 4 lbs lost was lean mass. Probably not ideal, but I didn't think it was horrible considering I just sat at my work desk and melted for those 9 months. I'm now moving more/casually lifting and can already see a bit of muscle redeveloping. Excited for this next phase.

Yeah but do you look like a crack head? 🤣

I was going for meth head w/o the teeth issues... Got skinny fat guy instead... I'm good with it!

 

[indolent]

Doing (5mg) of Tirz, (500mcg) SLU-PP-332, along with my TRT therapy (200mgTE), down 50lbs since Christmas with minimal fat loss. It’s tough, but you must eat, & often.

Thank you for being honest about your products' effect.

 

[TetsuNW]

I've gotta disagree on the kettlebell thing, unfortunately. Progressive overload is the name of the game when it comes to effective resistance training, and for compound/dynamic movements like those that kettlebells are best at, most people are going to get better results with a barbell, even though it might seem scarier at first, and both have injury potential when used improperly.

You get additional stabilization from a barbell, incremental loading is easier, etc. You're much more likely to get limited by accessory muscles on kettlebell lifts, so you'll be getting the most muscle growth there, because they'll fail first - the primary muscles just aren't going to get as close to failure and as such not get as much growth stimulus.

I'd personally recommend barbells, dumbbells, cables/functional trainers, smith machines, plate/selectorized machines, etc., all as part of a routine before kettlebells.

Of course, doing what you enjoy and you personally find effective is way more important than doing what is "theoretically" best, so if kettlebells are what works for you, no hate there.

Well you're right about a few things. Progressive overload is the name of the game and for muscle growth specifically a barbell is superior. Where you're a bit off the mark is the progression with kettlebells, kbs are going to be mostly about volume. While you can find smaller kbs in 2kg increments micro plate options just don't work well, and magnets don't seem safe to me. It really comes down to volume, mostly increasing reps/sets/ladders or decreasing rest time. Of course you make jumps in KBs too, it's argued the larger jumps make you stronger, idk how I feel about that one though lol.

I want to also make it clear that KB training does build muscle. It's not an optimal implement if your goal is body building type muscle growth. If you want more strength and cardio mixed in, with less chance of injury as the weights are smaller, then KBs should be considered.

If you want to train in a gym you'll have an easier time finding free weights and machines. If you want to train at home in a small space then KBs. From a cost perspective a 12-16-20 or 16-20-24 set of kbs is about the same a single barbell.

Give KB training a go. I was slow to get KB training, it took until I had to move into a studio while my house was being remodeled. I trained on a single 4x6 horse mat I pulled out of storage. Even after the initial ramping up stage the pain free training, mobility, strength, easy recovery and energy I had blew all my years of barbell training out of the water.

I strongly encourage anyone reading all of this nerding out to resistance train. Added on top of the choice you already made for yourself with glp-1s, you will be giving yourself and ypur loved ones the best possible gift of your best self and a longer healthier life.

 

[Revo39564]

Yeah but do you look like a crack head? 🤣

I was going for meth head w/o the teeth issues... Got skinny fat guy instead... I'm good with it!

Skinny guy with lots of extra skin here lol

 

[ruisenor]

So you've lost an enormous amount of weight. Have you noticed how much muscle mass you've lost?
Arguably the biggest drawback to GLP-1's is the loss of muscle mass. Many in the healthcare industry are espousing an early death due to GLP-1's rapid weight loss going hand in hand with rapid muscle loss. Older GLP-1 patients losing so much muscle mass they cannot gain back and will no longer be able to support their own body weight as they age.
Let's talk about gaining this muscle mass back. We have some great tools at our disposal: CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, Tesamorelin, GH, ABS.
What are you trying and what have been the results?

Reta ate my ass. My glutes basically evaporated. 3 months in I increased protein intake and strength training and have gained some muscle mass back, but still have stretch marks on my cheeks..