Tesa & Ipa!

[CraigLSU]

Has anyone researched Tesamorelin & Ipamorelin here? I couldn’t find any COA’s here?

 

[PurpleCatFur]

yes, tesa from several vendors. one kit of IPA goes a long way

 

[bbrewer]

Do not get mix, I've never seen one with ratios that make sense. Always too ipa heavy. Also difficult to test.

 

[moonpies4misfits]

There are a number of threads on here in regards to tesa if you use the search feature. Check the box for "search titles only" for tesa specific threads, or leave it unchecked to see comments across all threads

 

[hexagonal]

Yes, used both. They worked for me, but I found HGH to be a better price/performance option. Higher IGF-1, lower insulin sensitivity.

 

[Calm Logic]

AndyPanda, Zpped, and Exploitedworkerbee have also been favorable about HGH, so it's on my to-do list:

I feel like so many of the random peptides claim to do what you can accomplish with good old HGH.

Reta, hgh, bpc. The holy trinity.

I'll just bluntly say AOD and L-carn are both a waste of money. The effect you want only comes from increasing growth hormone. That can be done directly with hgh (illegal) or gh secretougues like tesamorelin/ipamorelin. But these are not something to dabble in without a lot of research into getting your own bloodwork and reading it.

 

[CraigLSU]

Do not get mix, I've never seen one with ratios that make sense. Always too ipa heavy. Also difficult to test.

Ok that’s what I’ve heard! There’s 2 places I want to order from to get 10 vial kits but I’ve never done that so I’m nervous being new to the kit thing!

 

[CraigLSU]

Yes, used both. They worked for me, but I found HGH to be a better price/performance option. Higher IGF-1, lower insulin sensitivity.

Doesn’t HGH stop you’re own production?

 

[hexagonal]

Doesn’t HGH stop you’re own production?

There's no reason to care about having natural production when you are supplying it exogenously. You'll get more serum IGF1 dollar per dollar out of HGH than you will the secreteagogues.

HGH natural production also returns to normal within a matter of days after you stop.

 

[Calm Logic]

The same principles applies with TRT, which is why I give more credence to HGH. If the status quo was that natural production went down permanently, the TRT clinics and telehealth portals would go out of business.

 

[AndyPanda]

Yeah, don’t waste your money and energy on snake oil. Just get some HGH. There are probably more than a dozen peptides that try to do what we know HGH does.

 

[Protostack]

everyone giving advice about just getting HGH is spot on, my reading is that the derivatives and analogues just don’t have the price to performance ratio of HGH. Tesamorelin is designed specifically for visceral fat and has clinical evidence backing it so getting Tesa and HGH makes sense to me.

 

[CraigLSU]

The same principles applies with TRT, which is why I give more credence to HGH. If the status quo was that natural production went down permanently, the TRT clinics and telehealth portals would go out of business.

Do you get it in bulk?

 

[CraigLSU]

everyone giving advice about just getting HGH is spot on, my reading is that the derivatives and analogues just don’t have the price to performance ratio of HGH. Tesamorelin is designed specifically for visceral fat and has clinical evidence backing it so getting Tesa and HGH makes sense to me.

What are the dosage protocol for HGH? I’m 180!

 

[hexagonal]

What are the dosage protocol for HGH? I’m 180!

Individual response to HGH varies pretty wildly, and estrogen levels can impact it (more estrogen, more response, to a certain point)

4IU is enough to put me right above 500 IGF-1, which is more than you would need for fat loss/recomp type purposes, but 3-4 IU are pretty common amounts for people to settle on. Start a little low, titrate up after a couple of weeks. People tend to get swelling, edema, carpal tunnel, etc., if they go too high too fast.

I'm happy I respond well to HGH, since I respond like jack shit to testosterone itself. All the way up to 250mg/w now and still in reference range, lol.

One thing to keep in mind with both tesa/ip and regular HGH is that you will put on some additional water weight when you start, and potentially again as you go up in dosage, so the scale might move up instead of down as your body gets used to it.

 

[AndyPanda]

What are the dosage protocol for HGH? I’m 180!

2iu to 4iu generally speaking. Your goals and biology will factor in to that decision. MESORX is a good place to get information on HGH.

 

[happybunny63]

So can you take any other peptides when cycling off the Ipa and Tesa? I am worried that I am going to feel like crap!

 

[Blitziod]

There's no reason to care about having natural production when you are supplying it exogenously. You'll get more serum IGF1 dollar per dollar out of HGH than you will the secreteagogues.

HGH natural production also returns to normal within a matter of days after you stop.

How much is hgh costing and how much do you need to do ?

 

[Delta]

CraigLSU, Not thread related, but just wanted to give you a Geaux Tigers! 😁

 

[hexagonal]

How much is hgh costing and how much do you need to do ?

Most of the CN vendors here also offer HGH.

Amount you need to do is highly variable. Most people will see replacement IGF-1 levels at 2-3IU and performance similar to secretagogues at 3-4IU.

4IU puts me significantly higher than the secretagogues did - about 150 more.

 

[Calm Logic]

Bumping with a Gemini perspective for estimating increase in IGF-1, but I don't have enough experience to gauge accuracy, even for me.

L refers to low responder. H to high responder. 5/2 refers to 5 days on, 2 days off:

Compound	Dose	Daily IGF-1 Increase (L/H)	5/2 IGF-1 Increase (L/H)	Fluid Risk (Daily vs 5/2)	Insulin Risk (Daily vs 5/2)
Sermorelin	500 mcg	+10-15% / +25-35%	+7-12% / +18-25%	Very Low / Negligible	None / None
Ipamorelin	250 mcg	+15-25% / +40-55%	+10-18% / +30-40%	Low / Very Low	None / None
Tesamorelin	2 mg	+30-50% / +80-110%	+22-35% / +60-80%	Low-Mod / Low	Neutral / Improved
HGH (Repl.)	1 IU	+20-40% / +60-80%	+15-30% / +45-60%	Mod / Low	Low / Negligible
CJC + Ipa	100/250mcg	+45-65% / +90-120%	+32-48% / +65-85%	Moderate / Low	Low / Very Low
Hexarelin	200 mcg	+50-75% / +100-130%	+35-55% / +75-95%	Moderate / Low	Neutral / Neutral
HGH (Mod.)	2 IU	+50-80% / +110-140%	+35-60% / +80-105%	High / Mod	Mod / Low
CJC (DAC)	2 mg/wk	+70-100% / +130-160%	+70-100% / +130-160%	High / N/A	High / N/A
HGH (Perf.)	3 IU	+80-110% / +180-230%	+60-85% / +130-170%	V. High / High	High / Mod
HGH (Aggr.)	4 IU	+120-150% / +250-350%	+90-115% / +180-250%	Extreme / V. High	V. High / High

 

[Calm Logic]

If you wear a ring like a wedding ring, that is one way to evaluate fluid build-up with tesa or HGH:

The "Ring Test" for your HGH protocol:

The Baseline: Note how your ring fits on Monday morning (after your 2 days off). This is your "dry" state.

The Build-up: Observe the fit on Friday morning (after 5 days of HGH). If the ring is significantly harder to turn or leaves a deep indentation mark, your interstitial fluid pressure is high.

The Warning Sign: If you cannot remove the ring at all on Friday, it’s a strong signal that the dose is overwhelming your kidneys' ability to process sodium.

Gemini on a small study on HGH:

To reach the +1.5 SDS level (the high end of normal), the average participant only needed about 1.3 IU per day [65.6% men, mean age 46.6 years]. This is much lower than the "bodybuilding" doses often discussed online (which frequently start at 2–4 IU).

All 32 participants had a confirmed diagnosis of GH deficiency. In these individuals, the "baseline" without medication is a state of very low IGF-1, increased body fat, and decreased muscle mass.

 

[Such1943]

You need to get your IGF-1 tested. You want to be within Z score of 2-3. IGF-1 z score above 3 long term causes acromegaly and you start looking like Sylvester Stallone.

I used 1ui nightly for this bloodwork from 2/4. bumped it to 2ui after.

 

[RoyGBiv]

Individual response to HGH varies pretty wildly, and estrogen levels can impact it (more estrogen, more response, to a certain point)

4IU is enough to put me right above 500 IGF-1, which is more than you would need for fat loss/recomp type purposes, but 3-4 IU are pretty common amounts for people to settle on. Start a little low, titrate up after a couple of weeks. People tend to get swelling, edema, carpal tunnel, etc., if they go too high too fast.

I'm happy I respond well to HGH, since I respond like jack shit to testosterone itself. All the way up to 250mg/w now and still in reference range, lol.

One thing to keep in mind with both tesa/ip and regular HGH is that you will put on some additional water weight when you start, and potentially again as you go up in dosage, so the scale might move up instead of down as your body gets used to it.

I know its been some time but do you not need TRT if you take HGH?

 

[Calm Logic]

How long were you on 1 iu? Do you know what your natural/previous baseline was?

My IGF was 193 natural (the only IGF result I have so far), but I am waiting for results for a new baseline (after taking hexarelin on-and-off). Restarting HGH now and will test again in four weeks or so.

For testing, did you use a lab discount website? I use Fitomics since they still have the cheapest price for IGF-1 at $14 with Labcorp (with a $30 monthly membership, but you can order future tests as well). GoodLabs is more competitive for testosterone-related testing. For IGF-1 with GoodLabs: draw fee plus $27 with Quest or $36 with Labcorp.

 

[Such1943]

I did not know my natural IGF-1 levels. Jumped on TRT without knowing better to get a baseline unfortunately.

01/05 results on 160mg test was:


E2 was in good range for my feels, but it effects IGF-1. I added 1ui.

02/04 results on 200mg test & 150mg Primo:


crushed my e2 with Primo, live and learn. Adjusted test to counter e2, felt better after a week. I bumped up to 2ui HGH. Should mention I was 8 weeks into recomp working out 5 days a week so my body fat% was lower than 1/05 also effecting e2/IGF-1. Going in for more bloodwork on 3/23.

I use goodlabs /w 20% off referral. My code is RWC65P.

• Test: Insulin-Like Growth Factor I (IGF-1) via Quest — listed at $27.00
• Processing Fee: Lab draw and processing — $12.00
• Subtotal: $39.00
• Discount: 20% off (from referring someone) — -$7.80
• Total Due: $31.20

Lipid Panel is only $8 and some other good stuff for cheap.

 

[Calm Logic]

Primo raised my LDL like crazy. I discontinued it before testing estrogen, etc. I may be done with steroids completely, including test, depending how I do naturally.

TRT levels of test can even be good for endothelial function (opposite can be true for supraphysiological), but there's also the effects of DHT, etc. My initial/only primo experience was fine until the LDL results. Anavar skyrocketed my liver enzymes.

 

[Such1943]

Primo raised my LDL like crazy.

1/5 before Primo on Keto for 1.5 years.

Got on Rosuvastatin 5mg daily for about 2 weeks, so probably not fully saturated.

2/4 with primo and carb loading only around workouts Pre-workout carbs: 39g, Post-workout carbs: 79g. Target: 2020 Calories | 225g Protein | 72g Fat | ~118g Net Carbs

getting better....

Anavar skyrocketed my liver enzymes.

I want to try it pre-workout on upper days, or some TNE. I need to remind myself to take it slow or I'll be a full addict with shit blood work. It's a slippery slope.

I may be done with steroids completely.

This is my slow start. Maybe a subject for another forum or DM. I like to shoot the shit, but this is not Meso.

 

[Calm Logic]

Circling back to IGF-1, how do you think it got so high (408)? Anything besides taking test and having high E2? Were you on any GH peptides at any time beforehand?

 

[Such1943]

KLOW, SS-31/NAD+/Mots-C protocol, Reta, & Test. My E2 was elevated and 25% body fat or so. I am also meso-endomorph, I can build and keep muscle like nothing but also pack on fat just as fast overeating. It’s probably just genetic. I lost almost no muscle compared to fat on Reta just eating cleaner and trying to eat as much protein Reta would allow.