Anyone making their own bac water?

[ta13579]

I buy sterile water from pharmacies here in France (10ml vial). Then I add 0.9% benzylic alcohol. I only create the BAC water I need for immediate reconstitution. I discard what is not being used.

Thanks for the reply. I did more research and apparently the tonitcity of the Sterfile WFI doesn't matter that much for small volume injections. In fact, I came to learn that regular bacwater isn't isotonic either. I'm going to make a few vials and send one off for testing. Thanks again.

 

[janedoe]

I buy sterile water from pharmacies here in France (10ml vial). Then I add 0.9% benzylic alcohol. I only create the BAC water I need for immediate reconstitution. I discard what is not being used.

A year ago I was beginning to research home grown BAC. Found a University chemist platform as well as, orher places to get input. For me, my comfort rational was if I am buying grey from a vendor that I am confident with, and it's tested well enough for my comfort level, I may as well try my own brew. It can't be more dangerous than foreign chemicals I'm using, and I'm comfortable w/ my own practices more than anything else. Pharma sterile water, with added BA to the sterile vial. BA is fairly accessible. I obtained a flat of hospira BAC prior to the price increase early last year, but wanted to learn for event of future need. If I have to, I will use my own.

 

[OldManStrength]

Another great thread! I thought a lot about this subject, but haven’t really looked into it. I’ve made a lot of sterile water for mycology work and I wondered about making sterile water and adding BA. Also, I have a whole case of Hospira BA water that expired July 2013. I was curious if it has gone bad or if I can just add some BA to it?

 

[FartfulCodger]

On the subject of sterile water, wouldn't it be possible to make your own by distilling some pure water using the upside-down-lid-on-a-boiling-pot method? I think you'd end up with sterile distilled water that would be good enough for injections. One concern is that the resulting pH apparently can vary depending on when you seal your distilled water during cooling.

I'd think this would be good enough for immediate use. But if you're going to use it to reconstitute a peptide meant to last for a month, you'd add 1 part BA to 100 parts water. I'd expect that the 99.995% pure USP grade BA made by Revolve Chem would work just fine.

I know it's easier to just buy Hospira, but some people can't seem to source it easily and I don't trust that the supply will always be available to those of us who can.

Is this workable? Can someone smarter than me weigh in?

 

[deluge]

On the subject of sterile water, wouldn't it be possible to make your own by distilling some pure water using the upside-down-lid-on-a-boiling-pot method? I think you'd end up with sterile distilled water that would be good enough for injections. One concern is that the resulting pH apparently can vary depending on when you seal your distilled water during cooling.

I'd think this would be good enough for immediate use. But if you're going to use it to reconstitute a peptide meant to last for a month, you'd add 1 part BA to 100 parts water. I'd expect that the 99.995% pure USP grade BA made by Revolve Chem would work just fine.

I know it's easier to just buy Hospira, but some people can't seem to source it easily and I don't trust that the supply will always be available to those of us who can.

Is this workable? Can someone smarter than me weigh in?

I love the spirit of your idea, and I myself run a still several times a year as a hobby, but honestly, I think I'd take my chances with a gallon jug of distilled water from WallyWorld before I trusted my own process in the kitchen.

Not that I'm recommending WW distilled for injection. I buy Hospira from InjectionShop, get the bill up to $50 and shipping is free. Or, based on Peter Magic's advice on that YT video, just used Sterile for Injection. There are options.

 

[FartfulCodger]

I love the spirit of your idea, and I myself run a still several times a year as a hobby, but honestly, I think I'd take my chances with a gallon jug of distilled water from WallyWorld before I trusted my own process in the kitchen.

Not that I'm recommending WW distilled for injection. I buy Hospira from InjectionShop, get the bill up to $50 and shipping is free. Or, based on Peter Magic's advice on that YT video, just used Sterile for Injection. There are options.

I'm with you in that I wouldn't trust the sterility of the WW stuff straight out of the bottle. But I'd think my own boiling and distillation would remove both microbes and endotoxins.

Sterile water for injections is great, but once it's added to a punctured vial, it lacks the BA that would inhibit microbe growth over the weeks that follow.

In any case, I don't think I'll be pursuing this option--it just makes for interesting discussion.

 

[deluge]

In any case, I don't think I'll be pursuing this option--it just makes for interesting discussion.

Im with you in on that! Love the breaking bad vibes, but I don’t want the consequences.

 

[TazaTaza]

It's less of a headache to get BAC from a EU based/locally based research company who has a COA attached to their products.

Other easier options would be to use pharma grade sterile water, saline, or even PBS (cheap and very easy to get) which is much easier to get w/little to no restrictions and limit your vial use to 30 days.

I agree with others in theory it is easy to make a 0.9% solution of something, but to guarantee it is "sterile" or not contaminated is another discussion.

 

[ta13579]

On the subject of sterile water, wouldn't it be possible to make your own by distilling some pure water using the upside-down-lid-on-a-boiling-pot method? I think you'd end up with sterile distilled water that would be good enough for injections. One concern is that the resulting pH apparently can vary depending on when you seal your distilled water during cooling.

The problem with distilling your own water is the transfer of the water to the sterile vials and air contamination. What about left over endotoxin from that distillation? According to Grok, endotoxin is removed by reverse osmosis and other filtration methods.

My approach is to just buy Sterile WFI (microbe and endotoxin free) used in hospitals for IV bags. Buy 10 sterile vials and add sterile BA by mass measurement to each vial. Then transfer Sterile WFI via sterile syringe to each vial by volume. All fluids transfer through sterile syringes and never get exposed to open air. There is a small amount of air likely in the syringe, but not much can be done about it and hopefully it's so minimal the BA prevents any growth.

Preparing the BAC water in front of a hepa filter often used for mycology work may mitigate the contamination risk further. I'm tempted to try it, but it's a lot more work than just buying Hospira

 

[FartfulCodger]

The problem with distilling your own water is the transfer of the water to the sterile vials and contamination. What about left over endotoxin from that distillation? According to Grok, endotoxin is removed by reverse osmosis and other filtration methods. My approach is to just buy Sterile WFI (microbe and endotoxin free) used in hospitals for IV bags. Buy 10 sterile vials and add sterile BAC by mass measurement to each vial. Then transfer Sterile WFI via sterile syringe to each vial. All fluids transfer through sterile syringes and never get exposed to open air. There is a small amount of air likely in the syringe, but not much can be done about it and hopefully it's so minimal the BAC prevents any growth.

I'd be inclined to have my empty vials and rubber caps boiling in the water, to sterilize them. Then I'd fill the vials with the hot distilled water and cap them while everything was still hot.

From what I understand, endotoxins would remain in the unevaporated water and not rise into the distilled steam.

I suppose there's still a possibility that endotoxins would be present in the unevaporated water that touches the vials, but it seems like it would be a minute amount if there was any at all.

 

[UncrossSelector]

I'm with you in that I wouldn't trust the sterility of the WW stuff straight out of the bottle. But I'd think my own boiling and distillation would remove both microbes and endotoxins.

Sterile water for injections is great, but once it's added to a punctured vial, it lacks the BA that would inhibit microbe growth over the weeks that follow.

In any case, I don't think I'll be pursuing this option--it just makes for interesting discussion.

I can get 100x 10ml WFI ampoules for $20.
Add to vial, then add approriate BAC. Simple, easy, risk free and cheap.

 

[Throwfa]

Process is, first you get injection sterile water and ph.Eur/USP injection grade BA.

I am using a sterile injection water easily obtainable here (comes in packs of 20 bottles with 10, 20, 50, 100ml and so on, I prefer the versions of 20ml or more, they come in glass bottles, 10ml version comes in plastic ampules, and 10ml is anyway not much). For example, the one I am using (not sure if brands are allowed here, having post rejected all the time), a pack of 20x20ml costs something like 6 Euro, available in countless real and online pharmacies in Germany (and hence, in the EU).

BA I am getting from the lab supplies in the Netherlands. The smallest bottle you can get there is 100ml (iirc), but anything from 20-50ml or so will do the trick, and will last you forever (or at least for 2 years, until BA starts to oxidize in the opened BA bottle, and thus becomes less effective. After 2 or so years, you simply order a new one.

Then, get a sterile insulin syringes you would use for reconning, pull what amounts to 0.9-1% of BA for your bottle of sterile injection water (for example, get 1ml of BA for 100ml water bottle, 0.45-0.5ml of BA for 50ml bottle and so on.

No need to be super precise with BA amount, people are putting everything from 0.8% to 1.8% of BA and doing just fine. Also, branded BAC waters also vary in BA content `for as much as 0.2% or more from batch to batch, so no difference there.

Once you get the proper amount of BA in your syringe, put it in the sterile water, shake it around for some time to spread the BA around. That's it, you have got yourself selfmade BAC for basically pennies 🙂

As I wrote above, get your ph.Eur grade BA from the Netherlands (or from somewhere else, it's not the only place, of course), smallest bottle of 20, 50 or 100ml will last you years

It is not less sterile than, for example, reconning and filling up cartridges for the injection pens, like V1s, V2s, Savvio, GensulinPen2, Novo...

Thanks for the writeup! When mixing your BAC water, do you make it directly into the 20ml vials? How long do you keep them?

 

[Calm Logic]

@BasharTeg, how much does a case of the sterile injectable water cost you (in Europe)?

Other than making your own BAC water, the remaining option is to use something proven and branded, like Hospira or Lambda BAC water. Anything else is a lottery and gamble, and one you are bound to lose in most cases.

According to one of the testing servers, Lambda tested positive for some amount of endos compared to zero for Hospira.

 

[BasharTeg]

Thanks for the writeup! When mixing your BAC water, do you make it directly into the 20ml vials? How long do you keep them?

I simply put 0.5ml of BA in a 50ml Ampuwa glass bottle, shake it around and that's it.

That 50ml bottle has the same rubber top like the peptide vials, so it can be reused many times to pull BAC water out of it (with alcohol swabbing before/after, like any other BAC water bottle.

My last 50ml selfmade BAC water bottle is now 9 weeks old, and despite that, I just reconned 1 vial of GHK-Cu, 1 vial of AHK-Cu and one vial of CJC-1295 no DAC + Ipa with it yesterday, all 3 crystal clear, reconned in 20-40 seconds.

I am quite sure that the "old" BAC mix will still usable even after more than these 9 weeks, but, just to be sure and not too frugal where I probably should not be, the next time I have to recon something I will throw it away and make me a new 50ml one.

After all, one such 50ml bottle costs me something like 80-90 Eurocents (and a drop of BA costs basically nothing), so I will be wasteful and throw the remaining 30 or so ml of the previous BAC mix 😛

 

[BasharTeg]

@BasharTeg, how much does a case of the sterile injectable water cost you (in Europe)?

I am using Ampuwa sterile injection water (glass bottle variant with 50ml/bottle), which is currently around 21 Euros for 20 x 50ml bottles. It was slightly cheaper when I bought it a few months ago (around 17 Euros for 20 x 50ml).

There are other Ampuwa variants (5, 10, 20, 50, 100ml, and so on), but I prefer the glass bottles (10 and 20 ml come in plastic ampules), since I can just put BA in there and that is it, and then reuse it many times (it has the same rubber top like the lyophilized peptide vials), no need to refill it somewhere else after mixing (like it would be the case with ampules).

Although, there is also the variant with using 5 or 10ml ampules but for "single use" - put the appropriate amount of BA inside, pull out the BAC water, recon a vial or two with it immediately, aand then throw the ampule away (it's only a few ml in it anyway). A pack of 20 x 5ml ampules is like 4.4 Euros, or a bigger pack of 20 x 10ml ampules is only a few cents more, 4.5 Euros for 20 x 10ml. I still prefer the larger 50ml glass bottles, but ymmv.

 

[BasharTeg]

Another great thread! I thought a lot about this subject, but haven’t really looked into it. I’ve made a lot of sterile water for mycology work and I wondered about making sterile water and adding BA. Also, I have a whole case of Hospira BA water that expired July 2013. I was curious if it has gone bad or if I can just add some BA to it?

Hospira BAC water already has BA in it, although by this time, BA is probably not effective any more. Although I would not risk it with something which has expired 13 years ago, personally 😛

Which reminds to (yet again) go through the various things my mother in law has in her pantry, including spices and undefined poweders and stuff there. My wife and me used to find stuff there which has expired like 40 or more years ago... Which my MIL commented with "well it is still unopened, so it's still good, no need to throw it away" 😉

 

[miameow]

I have always made my own bac - I have 2mL vials of sterile injection water, so it's always sterile, no double dipping, which I would argue is better than poking a 30mL Hospira bac vial multiple times. I also add 1% benzyl alcohol, not 0.9% as it's just easier. I've never had any issues with my DIY bac water (well, so far).

 

[Throwfa]

I simply put 0.5ml of BA in a 50ml Ampuwa glass bottle, shake it around and that's it.

That 50ml bottle has the same rubber top like the peptide vials, so it can be reused many times to pull BAC water out of it (with alcohol swabbing before/after, like any other BAC water bottle.

My last 50ml selfmade BAC water bottle is now 9 weeks old, and despite that, I just reconned 1 vial of GHK-Cu, 1 vial of AHK-Cu and one vial of CJC-1295 no DAC + Ipa with it yesterday, all 3 crystal clear, reconned in 20-40 seconds.

I am quite sure that the "old" BAC mix will still usable even after more than these 9 weeks, but, just to be sure and not too frugal where I probably should not be, the next time I have to recon something I will throw it away and make me a new 50ml one.

After all, one such 50ml bottle costs me something like 80-90 Eurocents (and a drop of BA costs basically nothing), so I will be wasteful and throw the remaining 30 or so ml of the previous BAC mix 😛

Thanks, very clear. Do you use syringe filters?

 

[Obi Pep Kenobi]

Thanks for the reply. I did more research and apparently the tonitcity of the Sterfile WFI doesn't matter that much for small volume injections. In fact, I came to learn that regular bacwater isn't isotonic either. I'm going to make a few vials and send one off for testing. Thanks again.

Keep us updated I’m currently runnin a similar experiment

 

[BasharTeg]

Thanks, very clear. Do you use syringe filters?

Nope.

Could not be bothered, to be honest, since I never had any problems with either reconning or quality/purity/toxicity/bacterial content of all the peptides I have used so far. Luck? Could be.

 

[cheesecake]

Fantasic and important thread for every beginner in Europe! Thank you all

 

[Appelss12]

Actually, injection grade BA is not especially hard to find, at least if you are in the EU.

For example, I have ordered it from the Netherlands (injection grade, ph. Eur, USP), easily found using your web search engine of choice.

They have bottles starting at 100ml, all the way up to 25 litres 🙂

So, I have bought my BA there (100ml one is going to last me forever, or for at least 2-3 years until BA starts to oxidize, then I will just order another one), made my own BAC water with sterile injection water (also easily found in Germany), for basically pennies.

Everything reconned crystal clear and survived weeks on end with no problems whatsoever.

May I ask where you order in NL?

 

[dokterp]

May I ask where you order in NL?

Google benzyl alcohol ph eur. Probably your first hit will be a discount shop.
🙂