Concerned about losing LEAN BODY mass? read on

[barbie]

You said "we are basically agreeing here, with the one exception that muscle mass is indeed lost, along with fat"

The studies I posted LITERALLY say that we lose in a RATIO (meaning both are lost). As did my explanations of the studies.

That leaves only one thing: you did not read either my posts, nor my explanations of them, for *meaning*. You jumped to the conclusion that you wanted to have ("Barbie - and the studies - say that we do not lose muscle"). But I posted the opposite - and the studies also say the opposite.

I put much effort into this - and you just blew by it all....

 

[PeppyLaPep]

You said "we are basically agreeing here, with the one exception that muscle mass is indeed lost, along with fat"

The studies I posted LITERALLY say that we lose in a RATIO (meaning both are lost). As did my explanations of the studies.

That leaves only one thing: you did not read either my posts, nor my explanations of them, for *meaning*. You jumped to the conclusion that you wanted to have ("Barbie - and the studies - say that we do not lose muscle"). But I posted the opposite - and the studies also say the opposite.

I put much effort into this - and you just blew by it all....

I am sorry you feel disrespected. Not my intention at all. I also don’t want to argue with you. You seem to be very upset about this. I myself have a lot going on in my life and don’t want to get into a huge drama about this. I’ll delete my comments; it seems like that’s the only way to end this, as I don’t want to argue. Thanks for sharing your findings. Be well.

 

[3x1st3nc3]

Hi friends. I am happy to share the results of a deep dive I did on the topic of LEAN body mass (versus TOTAL body mass, which includes lean, fat, and a small amount of "other").

I was concerned about this topic after listening to a podcast with Dr Attia, where he showed data that his patients on glp-1 agonists where losing more LEAN body mass than FAT mass, which would be bad. We want to lose fat... and spare the muscles. His evidence for this data was DEXA (whole body imaging) scans, which can be inaccurate when differences in hydration levels occur. I wanted to see if he was correct, based on other, more rigorous studies (his wasn't a study - it was an observation of his patients, many of whom tend to be health enthusiasts).

So here are some studies I found, from PubMed (NIH). I am not sure how long posts can go in this forum, so I will post studies in the comments. Pay attention to which glp-1 the study covers, many are Tirz (my interest area) but some are Sema.

Lastly these are the notes I personally took. I might have interpreted incorrectly. I am not a medical professional, I am just a mom. Please check with your doctor if you have questions on this!

Thank you for researching and posting this. I have been reading on the topic a lot lately, and appreciate your overview and the study links.

 

[barbie]

I am sorry you feel disrespected. Not my intention at all. I also don’t want to argue with you. You seem to be very upset about this. I myself have a lot going on in my life and don’t want to get into a huge drama about this. I’ll delete my comments; it seems like that’s the only way to end this, as I don’t want to argue. Thanks for sharing your findings. Be well.

Thank you. Your words helped. I appreciate them.

Please do not delete... perhaps us rehashing the concept of ratio (of loss, between fat and lean mass) is helpful to others?

I hope the yucky stuff in your life sorts out soon for ya. Be well too. I wish you all the good there is.

 

[lasagnabeach]

Anecdotally I find most of my calories need to come from protein when I'm hungry on tirz. My body started craving beef so I've been eating that and supplementing with whey protein to get g/lbs and that seems to help in dropping what appears to be mostly fat (change in actual waist measurements by 3 or so inches in some spots)

 

[Reimann]

Docs Who Lift discussed the MRI studies that showed significant loss of intramuscular fat, not muscle tissue itself.

It’s in this week’s podcast, starting at about 14:40.

Tirzepatide updates from EASD by Docs Who Lift

Drs. Karl and Spencer chat about some of the new tirzepatide studies including SURMOUNT-4 from the EASD

podcasters.spotify.com

 

[JuneBug1956]

Docs Who Lift discussed the MRI studies that showed significant loss of intramuscular fat, not muscle tissue itself.

It’s in this week’s podcast, starting at about 14:40.

Tirzepatide updates from EASD by Docs Who Lift

Drs. Karl and Spencer chat about some of the new tirzepatide studies including SURMOUNT-4 from the EASD

podcasters.spotify.com

Thank you for the review Barbie and getting the conversation going. Reiman thanks for the link to Docs who lift. Very interesting podcasts presented well. They do have a bias against compounding and certainly reconstitution. They are real MD’s who follow the FDA recommendations meds. They present the study data well for anyone to follow. Gonna listen to them on some other subjects.

 

[Reimann]

They do have a bias against compounding and certainly reconstitution. They are real MD’s who follow the FDA recommendations meds.

True, sorry about that. Like many here, I am T2D (now in remission, hurrah!) and started out on prescription GLP-1 RAs. I switched to reconstituted because my stupid insurance is stupid. I started listening to these guys back then because they sound like gym bros. Well educated professional gym bros, but still the kind of meatheads I would totally hang out with any day.

I have heard them complain about insurance companies refusing to cover these meds, including in this episode. But I don’t think they can ever come out publicly in favor of reconstituting because of liability issues.

Check out the Aug 29 episode re: GLP-1 RAs and cardiac benefits. Very reassuring.

 

[TessaM]

Thanks for the rec!! I really enjoyed listening.

And... I completely understand where they're coming from re: reconstitution, tho I disagree (I'm special so don't need gatekeepers! Sez everyone, probably, but definitely me ) but... I get it. I hear it on two fronts from the medical professionals in my life:

1. Quality Control. Testing groups help a LOT, but they aren't in the underground lab world so I wouldn't expect them to know how people have self-organized to keep themselves safe. Tho I love them, these groups will never be as good as the absolutely mindblowingly precise pharma QC processes... e.g. these factories use $50k X-Ray machines to catch particulate matter (and can even identify what it is), and extremely expensive software calibrated to ensure exact dosage, etc etc.

2. People. They all see a LOT of people taking pretty ridiculous things based on wishful thinking, what the kid who mows their lawn told them, or something they got from a lady at church. We've all seen the reddit posts about people not being familiar with basic units and so forth. Gatekeepers may be overzealous but they exist for a reason...

So all of that is to say... it isn't just liability they're concerned with, it's that they know people are generally terrible at estimating risk. They have seen things like people shredding their intestinal linings due to ODing on Tractor Supply ivermectin, so they absolutely would never come out and condone off-label demi-pharma usage.

The most I've gotten is a grudging acceptance that I'm doing it regardless of what they say, and an acknowledgement that lower prices for this stuff is essential for public health.