Do the tirz peps that we are getting from China

[Gr33dyOctopus]

Feel the same as the tirz from compounding pharmacy? I imagine the answer is yes, I've ordered the transfer syringes, the empty Vials, the filters and just about to order a bunch of dry tirz. So curious to see how it feels compared to the bottles I paid 200 or more for 60 or 72mg.

 

[ZippityDooDah]

They are the exact same molecule, so yes.

Well, technically the "feels" could be different from a compounder who mixed in something besides tirz like B vitamins, etc.

 

[byefatlicia]

Tirz is Tirz in both cases. The question is, how accurate was your compounding pharmacies' fill?
Lots of folks say the grey is better. But that's prolly bcuz they were getting ripped off in milligrams at their compound pharmacy.

 

[Gr33dyOctopus]

Tirz is Tirz in both cases. The question is, how accurate was your compounding pharmacies' fill?
Lots of folks say the grey is better. But that's prolly bcuz they were getting ripped off in milligrams at their compound pharmacy.

Dang that is exciting to even think about, thank you, and ty Zippity!

 

[ThatNextGril]

This is actually a question I sorta had, but more along the lines of just getting the pellets from the vendors (not reconstituted). My brain says tirz is tirz is tirz and if I account for the COA and any overflow when I mix my vial, I should feel the same effects regardless of vendor. But I swear my current dose from vendor B that I started to use for the first time this week on my Monday pin doesn't seem to be working as well as the previous weeks (months) from vendor A. I'm trying to convince myself it's just mind over matter, but I swear I've been hungry every morning this week when I usually don't get hungry until around noon.

This is annoying me so much as I've got a sizeable stash from vendor B that I have on hand to work through and there's no indication there's a problem with the COA or quality - just a strange thing I've noticed and I'm hoping it levels out and I go back to not being hungry in the a.m.

 

[deleted.user.18]

There is a lot in the vial besides the API… and even the API could be different enough to matter and still appear as correct in the HPLC test. So… there are a lot of variables. There are many accounts from people suffering side effects with product from one vendor and not with product from another. Those are anecdotal data, so understand the difference from controlled testing. It does illustrate that ‘the feelz’ could be totally different between different producers.

 

[ThatNextGril]

"The feelz" really does one's head in! I'm wondering if I should increase my dose a tad to see if that changes how it acts for me. I've been at 13mg for a few weeks; started tirz last Dec, and have been N=1 on how I feel about when I should up the dose. So I do still have wiggle room from the trialed top dose of 15mg, but I'm one of those people who likes to see how long I can stay at a dose level. I guess I'm just so used to OTC and other regulated meds where I know if I buy the generic brand it'll still work the same as the brand name. My brain thinks it's the same with grey, so clearly I need to have a word with it.

 

[YoYoFat]

There is a lot in the vial besides the API… and even the API could be different enough to matter and still appear as correct in the HPLC test.

Ehhh?? How is that possible?

 

[YoYoFat]

Feel the same as the tirz from compounding pharmacy?

Yes. It might even feel better simply because I know how much cheaper it is!

 

[deleted.user.18]

Ehhh?? How is that possible?

Do a little research on co-elution. It’s true, maybe not common enough for a person to be overly concerned. But, we should all have our eyes open to the risks and limits of the testing we have access to. Start with a YouTube search of HPLC issues.

 

[YoYoFat]

Do a little research. It’s true. We should all have our eyes open to the risks and limits of the testing we have access to. Start with a YouTube search of HPLC issues.

“Do a little research”? I’m not new here, dude.

It looks like you’re assuming the HPLC test in question doesn’t include mass spectrometry. No one should be relying on HPLC alone, although many of the new, useless labs do.

But if you’re using Jano to test your peps, which everyone should, they use LC-MS, what you’re hypothesizing is NOT possible.

 

[deleted.user.18]

Do a little research. It’s true. We should all have our eyes open to the risks and limits of the testing we have access to. Start with a YouTube search of HPLC issues.

“Do a little research”? I’m not new here, dude.

It looks like you’re assuming the HPLC test in question doesn’t include mass spectrometry. No one should be relying on HPLC alone, although many of the new, useless labs do.

But if you’re using Jano to test your peps, which everyone should, they use LC-MS, what you’re hypothesizing is NOT possible.

Lc-ms is an add-on with Jano. From my email correspondence they only seem to be doing RP-HPLC compared to a reference standard. I agree at least lc-ms should be added. I could be wrong too, but each time I or my colleagues have tried to get more specific answers from the lab on what testing is run for the $300 price tag the replies are often unclear. It usually ends with “…we also offer lc-ms…” which has lead me to believe that they aren’t actually using MS for Identification. Plus in Peter’s interview videos he states that RP-HPLC is sufficient.

Ideally I’d like to purchase RP-HPLC with LC-MS/MS and GC-MS against the NIST libraries plus endotoxin and sterility. But that MS/MS test just doesn’t seem to be available outside of regulated B2B labs. Even if it was it most of us would likely be priced out of the market.

I don’t mean that in a condescending way, more like, “don’t trust what I say without verifying it” if you have and you’re comfortable with your knowledge, I’m not wanting to debate or demean it. More of a cautionary, “we all need to have our eyes open and not go into this propped up on others work”

 

[Foggy-Hollow]

But I swear my current dose from vendor B that I started to use for the first time this week on my Monday pin doesn't seem to be working as well as the previous weeks (months) from vendor A.

Did you review coa/ Jano sheets to check fill? B may not have overfilled to the degree A did.

 

[GemstoneCrab]

From my personal experience it felt a bit different at the start.
I had some weird side effects that i never had with mounjaro, like excessive thirst.
And the hunger suppression was not as strong at the start, so i had to increase the dosage from 10mg mounjaro to 12.5 and then 15mg china tirz.
But after a while it stabilized, so no side effects anymore and its working as intended.

 

[ThatNextGril]

I'm also finding the hunger suppression isn't as strong with the batch I'm using now from the new vendor. I'm thankfully still getting the food noise reduction, which is actually more important for me, but it's strange to wake up really hungry now after almost a year of not really getting super hungry while on tirz.

 

[Calm Logic]

I'm also finding the hunger suppression isn't as strong with the batch I'm using now from the new vendor. I'm thankfully still getting the food noise reduction, which is actually more important for me, but it's strange to wake up really hungry now after almost a year of not really getting super hungry while on tirz.

That is why I like third-party testing to address such concerns, even when other factors may be at play. Any independent/group testing done with the new vendor?

 

[ThatNextGril]

That is why I like third-party testing to address such concerns, even when other factors may be at play. Any independent/group testing done with the new vendor?

Yep, group testing with Jano as well as vendor done testing with him, so all good there.

 

[joseblo]

I don't completely discount feelz, because frankly you're kinda paying for that. But for something that only happens once a week, it's hard to take out all the other variables that happened (food, furry friends, winter weather, workouts) so I'd adjust my rat's dose slowly as necessary to keep the noise at bay.

 

[lessthanhalf]

I took the prescription version of tirzepatide for a month or two before swapping to the grey version. It had the odd side effect of it making my tinnitus louder, which I had never experienced as a drug side effect before, so it was immediately obvious they were the same.

 

[Labcat]

I took the prescription version of tirzepatide for a month or two before swapping to the grey version. It had the odd side effect of it making my tinnitus louder, which I had never experienced as a drug side effect before, so it was immediately obvious they were the same.

My EL zepbound makes my ears ring (very loudly) the second and third days. I love your saying your side effects being the same is reassuring you’re getting the same med.

I’m looking for the ancillary effects like antiinflammatory etc so that really resonates. Imma refrain from wondering which source it was, but I imagine you went back to them.

 

[joseblo]

My EL zepbound makes my ears ring (very loudly) the second and third days. I love your saying your side effects being the same is reassuring you’re getting the same med.

I’m looking for the ancillary effects like antiinflammatory etc so that really resonates. Imma refrain from wondering which source it was, but I imagine you went back to them.

You might check your HR and blood pressure during the week as well, if you have a cuff. Tinnitus can be related to higher blood pressure.

 

[Labcat]

You might check your HR and blood pressure during the week as well, if you have a cuff. Tinnitus can be related to higher blood pressure.

That’s a good point! My BP and HR seems the usual weirdness it is. But I’ll check it again now. Data! I did just take a bunch of caffeine for my migriane though.
Too bad I can’t check pressure in my ears.

 

[Sasquatch]

My EL zepbound makes my ears ring (very loudly) the second and third days. I love your saying your side effects being the same is reassuring you’re getting the same med.

I’m looking for the ancillary effects like antiinflammatory etc so that really resonates. Imma refrain from wondering which source it was, but I imagine you went back to them.

I'm sitting here with my ears screaming on day 2. May I ask your tirz.dosage? I'm 3 weeks into 12.5mg.

 

[Labcat]

I'm sitting here with my ears screaming on day 2. May I ask your tirz.dosage? I'm 3 weeks into 12.5mg.

DMing u

 

[john_askins]

I’m glad you asked this because this is one of my main concerns with my push to switch to grey. I’m trying to parse through all of the vendors to decide which is the best product and which is the most trustworthy and I’d be really sad if something I ended up with gave all my side effects back.

 

[Gr33dyOctopus]

I’m glad you asked this because this is one of my main concerns with my push to switch to grey. I’m trying to parse through all of the vendors to decide which is the best product and which is the most trustworthy and I’d be really sad if something I ended up with gave all my side effects back.

Pfttttt, I dont know that many/any of them are "trustworty". Its the wild west here and folks hide behind anonymity.

 

[Labcat]

Truer words…

 

[MsGizmo]

Feel the same as the tirz from compounding pharmacy? I imagine the answer is yes, I've ordered the transfer syringes, the empty Vials, the filters and just about to order a bunch of dry tirz. So curious to see how it feels compared to the bottles I paid 200 or more for 60 or 72mg.

Well, I went directly from pharmacy semaglutide to grey market semaglutide and there was zero difference. There is no reason to expect the other GLP1s are any different.

 

[joseblo]

Pfttttt, I dont know that many/any of them are "trustworty". Its the wild west here and folks hide behind anonymity.

I’ve seen a number of posts on different forums hinting that even the same API could somehow be different, and it’s never been clear to me what is meant chemically. Can someone explain please how identity can confuse different but closely related molecules on 3P testing? I’d like if someone could share an explanation in chemistry, using the basics like “electrons” or “orbitals” or “conformation”, with a specific example which could be theoretic… rather than handwavy.t

Truer words…

In general I don't think this is an issue with the better labs. Certainly, Janoshik can identify peptides from blind samples with HPLC-MS. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to tell you what it really is (eg MOTS-C vs Tirz) in a screwup. What they can't really do is tell you purity of different components, if there are multiple components, because all of the peak overlap each other, but they can still give weight of each one, if each is known. I'm not an expert in these particular measurements, but I've used HPLC.

The other problem is reconstitution. It's possible to get peptides that won't dissolve properly (eg at a particular pH) and that can lead to ZERO peptide results. This happened recently with Survo that appeared to be free base (or incorrect salt) which would dissolve at lower pH.

Of course NN and EL apparently ship freebase (non salt) in their pens with whatever bacteriostatic/preservative necessary to get months of room temp storage. They don't need to do any lyophilization.

Now, if you're talking about things bigger than peptides (proteins), then folding becomes an issue for "biologics" and chemically they can be the same, but one folding could be effective while the other is not. Stereo isomers (or racemic mixtures) are another issue for small molecules, but again apparently not an issue in the solid phase synthesis used for the common peptides.

Again, I'm not an expert in these particular measurements, but the explanations I've read by others make sense from a chemical manfuacturing, purification, storage, and testing perspective.

 

[Labcat]

In general I don't think this is an issue with the better labs. Certainly, Janoshik can identify peptides from blind samples with HPLC-MS. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to tell you what it really is (eg MOTS-C vs Tirz) in a screwup. What they can't really do is tell you purity of different components, if there are multiple components, because all of the peak overlap each other, but they can still give weight of each one, if each is known. I'm not an expert in these particular measurements, but I've used HPLC.

The other problem is reconstitution. It's possible to get peptides that won't dissolve properly (eg at a particular pH) and that can lead to ZERO peptide results. This happened recently with Survo that appeared to be free base (or incorrect salt) which would dissolve at lower pH.

Of course NN and EL apparently ship freebase (non salt) in their pens with whatever bacteriostatic/preservative necessary to get months of room temp storage. They don't need to do any lyophilization.

Now, if you're talking about things bigger than peptides (proteins), then folding becomes an issue for "biologics" and chemically they can be the same, but one folding could be effective while the other is not. Stereo isomers (or racemic mixtures) are another issue for small molecules, but again apparently not an issue in the solid phase synthesis used for the common peptides.

Again, I'm not an expert in these particular measurements, but the explanations I've read by others make sense from a chemical manfuacturing, purification, storage, and testing perspective.

I’m so glad to see what you wrote, as I’ve read a lot of that, and convinced myself it sort of makes sense, but I really do retain the uncomfortable feeling that I’m kdiding myself that I actually understand it lol.
I didn’t hear about the survo not dissolving! No one would inject it though? Although if I knew it was pure, I might still… assiming that a small amount does dissolve and as it is removed it will re-equilibrate by dissolving more, kind of like how some depot medications work. Did anyone manage to get any use out of the survo? (Or was cowboy enough imto even try it?)