Epithalon

This is a nice write-up on NA Epitalon, but there has been no human research on it, unlike standard Epitalon. Most of it is self-reported anecdata, much like what we would do here. The article recommends 1-5 mg SQ, but with NA-being so much more bioavailable and longer lasting, I think it might lend itself better to IN administration. I'll make a spray with 250 mcg per spray and start there.

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N-Acetyl Epithalon Amidate: Complete Guide | Peptides.wiki

Complete guide to N-Acetyl Epithalon Amidate: discovery, mechanism, effects, dosing, results, and safety. Understand this telomerase-activating peptide.
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retarequired said:
I am very interested in the difference between NA Epitalon as opposed to regular Epitalon, so if anyone has any experience with that, please do share! It seems logical to assume a lower dose of NA Epitalon may be required to achieve the same result one would at a certain dose of Epitalon, but I haven't been able to find anything on it.
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Yeah, the literature seems a little sparse with regards to the nuances between the 3 different versions of Epitalon. (Don’t forget that NA Epitalon isn’t exactly the same as NA Epitalon Amidate.)

Here’s a comment on Peppy’s with an oversimplified explanation:

And for those following along for the sleep benefit discussion, here’s another thread that I bookmarked a while back. There are some good comments with sleep data charts and graphs included. https://chat.peppys.org/t/my-sleep-data-epithalon-dsip-pinealon-protocol/26627
 
Dos-Dox said:
Yes, there are a variety of protocols and I think it comes down to experimenting to see what works best for you. Anything showing >2 mg/day I throw out based on the widely cited translation error from the original compound.

As far as whether you do 0.3-0.5 mg/day or 1-2 mg/day, I think that depends on how many times per year you want to run it. If you want to do it 3-4 times per year, then the standard seems to be on the higher side of those ranges I cited. If you want to do it for the first 10 or 20 days per month, then it’s common to do the smaller dosage.

I’ve read all of Chili’s posts and Random’s posts about it and think they’ve given some great details that are worth reading. Lots of great discussions and anecdotal experiences on Peppy’s as well.

The Anela protocol calls for 100-500 mcg/day for 10-20 days each month. That (which I think is close to Random’s protocol if not identical) is what I’ve chosen to do.

Not many protocols differentiate between Epitalon, NA Epitalon, and NA Epitalon Amidate, however. Since NA Epitalon Amidate is more resistant to enzymatic breakdown, I’m choosing to use the smaller dosage.

But, back to the original question of the post, most of the discussions say it helps with sleep tremendously, and that makes sense based on the mechanisms. And I’m excited to experience that as well
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Alright, alright! Y'all (and some more internet info I dug up) have finally convinced me to try 1mg/day cycles, instead of 10mg/day cycles. AI says I might even notice it more because I won't be overloading my receptors. wth 🤷‍♀️ I'll give it a go.
 
vale113 said:
Hi guys, Does anyone use Epithalon with Reta? I'd like to try it for sleep. Does it help? What dosage should I start with? Many say mcg, others mg.
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LOVE Epithalon😍
I initially started it on the wrong high-dose injection protocol and felt pretty rough. Once I realized the mistake , I scaled way back to 1 mg/night x 20 nights and switched to a nasal spray instead. Overall, this was a huge success for me, CRUSHING my my deep sleep...it went from maybe 30 minutes to this during the cycle......and it’s been a really nice break using intra-nasal instead of nightly injections.
I'd like to use this more than 3x per year, so i think I'm going to run it the first 10-15 days of each month.

1776805043288.webp
 
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Jfrick11 said:
LOVE Epithalon😍
I initially started it on the wrong high-dose injection protocol and felt pretty rough. Once I realized the mistake , I scaled way back to 1 mg/night x 20 nights and switched to a nasal spray instead. Overall, this was a huge success for me, doubling my my deep sleep went from maybe 30 minutes to this......and it’s been a really nice break using intra-nasal instead of nightly injections.
I'd like to use this more than 3x per year, so i think I'm going to run it the first 10-15 days of each month.

View attachment 20747
Click to expand...
Wow! That’s FANTASTIC deep sleep! #goals
 
Chili777 said:
You don't need massive doses of Epitalon for it to be effective. My first cycle was 1 mg via IN and I just finished my second at 1 mg SQ. I ran for 20 days the first time and 10 days the second time, but I prefer the longer cycle, which I'll do every 4 months. I might go to 2 mg the next cycle, but no further.
Click to expand...
Differences from IN to SQ?
 
Jfrick11 said:
LOVE Epithalon😍
I initially started it on the wrong high-dose injection protocol and felt pretty rough. Once I realized the mistake , I scaled way back to 1 mg/night x 20 nights and switched to a nasal spray instead. Overall, this was a huge success for me, CRUSHING my my deep sleep...it went from maybe 30 minutes to this......and it’s been a really nice break using intra-nasal instead of nightly injections.
I'd like to use this more than 3x per year, so i think I'm going to run it the first 10-15 days of each month.

View attachment 20747
Click to expand...
Do you use the same spray and subcutaneous spray? Or are there different ones sold?
 
yrrdead said:
Differences from IN to SQ?
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IN for me was almost immediate onset, with brighter colors and sharper definition, and clearer thinking as residual COVID brain fog lifted. Mid-cycle, I noticed I could remember names and terms better. I didn't walk into a room and forget why I did, or forget where I put my car keys, which is a bonus at my age.

My second cycle via SQ, just reinforced the same benefits, although I noticed it took longer for my vision to sharpen, but it was definitely there. My brain fog hasn't returned since the initial cycle. I also wasn't waking up at 3 am like Reta does to me usually. I think IN administration is better because you are placing right it near the brain and optic nerve, so you bypass the hepatic filtering that happens via SQ.
 
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V6R3W said:
Oh interesting, do you have any information about the TBI-related benefits? Anything published?
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These are the studies I found. I asked Gemini to format them and provide links. Semax is actually used in Russia as a treatment following TBI. I think both of them combined would provide an excellent 1-2 punch to both rebuild damage and to limit it. I've also included screen shots from Anela's (creator of the GLOW stack) cycle to show the results of her use of Epitalon to address her brain injury.

I. Clinical Case Studies: Multi-Peptide Protocols​

  • Rodeo, S. A., et al. (2024): "Nothing Heals Without Cells: A Case Study on Cognitive Reset."

II. Foundational Longevity & Cardiovascular Trials​

  • Korkushko, O. V., et al. (2006): "Geroprotective Effect of Epithalamine in Elderly Subjects."
    • Finding: A 12-year study showing a 28% reduction in mortality and a 2-fold reduction in cardiovascular failure using pineal peptides.
    • Link: PubMed - PMID: 17426848

III. Neurogenesis & Brain Repair Mechanisms​

  • Khavinson, V. K., et al. (2020): "AEDG Peptide (Epitalon) Stimulates Gene Expression and Protein Synthesis during Neurogenesis."
  • Sibarov, D. A., et al. (2002/2024): "Epitalon Influences Pineal Secretion in Stress-Exposed Rats."
    • Finding: Demonstrated that Epitalon selectively increases c-Fos expression and protects pineal structure specifically during stress/injury.
    • Link: PubMed - PMID: 12500171

IV. Acute Neuroprotection & Stroke/TBI (Semax)​

  • Gusev, E. I., Skvortsova, V. I., et al. (2018/Earlier): "Investigation of Mechanisms of Neuroprotective Effect of Semax."
    • Finding: Analyzed the shifting of neuromediatory balance and anti-inflammatory reactions in acute brain ischemia and trauma.
    • Link: PubMed - PMID: 10358912
  • Lopatina, O. L., et al. (2014): "The Peptide Semax Affects Expression of Genes Related to the Immune and Vascular Systems."
    • Finding: Genome-wide analysis showing Semax influences 90+ genes involved in neural survival and vascular stability after brain injury.
    • Link: PMC - PMC3987924

V. Technical Comparison Reference​

  • Khavinson, V. K. (2002): "Peptides and Ageing."
 

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Chili777 said:
These are the studies I found. I asked Gemini to format them and provide links. Semax is actually used in Russia as a treatment following TBI. I think both of them combined would provide an excellent 1-2 punch to both rebuild damage and to limit it. I've also included screen shots from Anela's (creator of the GLOW stack) cycle to show the results of her use of Epitalon to address her brain injury.

I. Clinical Case Studies: Multi-Peptide Protocols​

  • Rodeo, S. A., et al. (2024): "Nothing Heals Without Cells: A Case Study on Cognitive Reset."

II. Foundational Longevity & Cardiovascular Trials​

  • Korkushko, O. V., et al. (2006): "Geroprotective Effect of Epithalamine in Elderly Subjects."
    • Finding: A 12-year study showing a 28% reduction in mortality and a 2-fold reduction in cardiovascular failure using pineal peptides.
    • Link: PubMed - PMID: 17426848

III. Neurogenesis & Brain Repair Mechanisms​

  • Khavinson, V. K., et al. (2020): "AEDG Peptide (Epitalon) Stimulates Gene Expression and Protein Synthesis during Neurogenesis."
  • Sibarov, D. A., et al. (2002/2024): "Epitalon Influences Pineal Secretion in Stress-Exposed Rats."
    • Finding: Demonstrated that Epitalon selectively increases c-Fos expression and protects pineal structure specifically during stress/injury.
    • Link: PubMed - PMID: 12500171

IV. Acute Neuroprotection & Stroke/TBI (Semax)​

  • Gusev, E. I., Skvortsova, V. I., et al. (2018/Earlier): "Investigation of Mechanisms of Neuroprotective Effect of Semax."
    • Finding: Analyzed the shifting of neuromediatory balance and anti-inflammatory reactions in acute brain ischemia and trauma.
    • Link: PubMed - PMID: 10358912
  • Lopatina, O. L., et al. (2014): "The Peptide Semax Affects Expression of Genes Related to the Immune and Vascular Systems."
    • Finding: Genome-wide analysis showing Semax influences 90+ genes involved in neural survival and vascular stability after brain injury.
    • Link: PMC - PMC3987924

V. Technical Comparison Reference​

  • Khavinson, V. K. (2002): "Peptides and Ageing."
Click to expand...
Wow, this is spectacular. Thank you.

I am >25 years post TBI, so I have to temper my expectations a bit, but this is exciting.
 
V6R3W said:
Wow, this is spectacular. Thank you.

I am >25 years post TBI, so I have to temper my expectations a bit, but this is exciting.
Click to expand...
Welcome. I'm 10 years from my last one, but it helped. Epitalon and Semax will always be in the toolbox.
 
I will run one mg per day of Epitalon for twenty days every three months until I am dead or until someone makes me stop.

I let my mom have some of my stash to see if she liked it, and now SHE will run one mg per day of Epitalon for twenty days every three months until SHE is dead or someone makes HER stop.

I am feeling miserly about my hoard of it (I currently have 9 vials of 7.5 mg after I send her enough to keep her good for a second cycle) and 2 kits coming from a GB. Now I have to find HER a source too, so that's a whole thing.
 
I do 1mg/day, 2X10mg vials, good for about 22-24 days, depending on overfill. I do that cycle 3-4 times a year. First few cycles were 0.5mg/day (coupled with TA1). I used it with Tirz and Reta. I always sleep 8-9hrs/day, with or without Epi, so cannot comment as a sleep aid.
 
Chili777 said:
Welcome. I'm 10 years from my last one, but it helped. Epitalon and Semax will always be in the toolbox.
Click to expand...
Could you talk to me about the benefits of Semax? I'm also a little nervous about squirting something other than Flonase up my nose, LOL. I'm dealing with brain fog, overwhelm, and chronic fatigue (Female, 40s), and am looking for something to help. My job is mentally high-pressure. I'd be stacking with Tirz. Thanks!

ETA: Oh, how'd you find your perfect dose?
 
Chili777 said:
You don't need massive doses of Epitalon for it to be effective. My first cycle was 1 mg via IN and I just finished my second at 1 mg SQ. I ran for 20 days the first time and 10 days the second time, but I prefer the longer cycle, which I'll do every 4 months. I might go to 2 mg the next cycle, but no further.
Click to expand...
Besides the length of the run did you notice a difference between IN and Subq?

I finally made my first 2 nasal sprays today(NA Selank and NA Semax) and I'm now considering the others I could try like Epitalon, DSIP, Pinealon and Adamax.
 
NBA_MiddleAgedGirl said:
Could you talk to me about the benefits of Semax? I'm also a little nervous about squirting something other than Flonase up my nose, LOL. I'm dealing with brain fog, overwhelm, and chronic fatigue (Female, 40s), and am looking for something to help. My job is mentally high-pressure. I'd be stacking with Tirz. Thanks!

ETA: Oh, how'd you find your perfect dose?
Click to expand...
Of course. The first thing I did was research Semax by reading here: https://pep-pedia.org/peptides/semax
Notice if you do another search on Semax, you'll find it and two other derivatives of it. Compare them and see what the offer. Because of my history I tried 500 mcg per spray first for a 1 mg dosage. It ended up being the correct one. And, as a nasal spray, if it too strong, just add more saline and you're good to go.

Semax helps me focus, cleared my COVID brain fog, and helps me remember names and technical terms that I need in my job.

You sound like me a year ago, so you might consider a cycle of Epitalon first, as I did. I made sprays for both of them. Epitalon to me is like tuning up the engine and Semax is like stepping on the gas. You do one before the other. How I made them, and what I used is in the link below.

Post in thread 'Selank + Semax--nasal? Effects?' https://glp1forum.com/threads/selank-semax-nasal-effects.9077/post-103166
 
Chili777 said:
Of course. The first thing I did was research Semax by reading here: https://pep-pedia.org/peptides/semax
Notice if you do another search on Semax, you'll find it and two other derivatives of it. Compare them and see what the offer. Because of my history I tried 500 mcg per spray first for a 1 mg dosage. It ended up being the correct one. And, as a nasal spray, if it too strong, just add more saline and you're good to go.

Semax helps me focus, cleared my COVID brain fog, and helps me remember names and technical terms that I need in my job.

You sound like me a year ago, so you might consider a cycle of Epitalon first, as I did. I made sprays for both of them. Epitalon to me is like tuning up the engine and Semax is like stepping on the gas. You do one before the other. How I made them, and what I used is in the link below.

Post in thread 'Selank + Semax--nasal? Effects?' https://glp1forum.com/threads/selank-semax-nasal-effects.9077/post-103166
Click to expand...
OMG, thank you so much for this! I really appreciate it. If a year ago your brain was like mine, I'm so happy you found something that works for you. I'm almost desperate. This has been such a helpful post. I'll do my research, look through your previous post, and start with Epitalon before adding Semax. I appreciate your response so much.
 
PinKushn said:
Besides the length of the run did you notice a difference between IN and Subq?

I finally made my first 2 nasal sprays today(NA Selank and NA Semax) and I'm now considering the others I could try like Epitalon, DSIP, Pinealon and Adamax.
Click to expand...

IN is near instant onset compared to SQ and it intensifies rapidly. Both methods last about the same time, 3-4 hours, the NA versions last another hour or so.

Adamax duration is 8-10 hours with just 300 mcg SQ, so I would be careful with Adamax via IN. I would start slow, maybe 100 mcg total, and go from there. With the quick onset via IN, I'd feel like I strapped into a rocketship at 300 mcg. This is especially true if you know your Adamax has the Adamantane chain (1032 Da) vs. the Adamax backbone (984 Da).
 
NBA_MiddleAgedGirl said:
OMG, thank you so much for this! I really appreciate it. If a year ago your brain was like mine, I'm so happy you found something that works for you. I'm almost desperate. This has been such a helpful post. I'll do my research, look through your previous post, and start with Epitalon before adding Semax. I appreciate your response so much.
Click to expand...
You're very welcome. One thing I should have added is that I didn't filter my very first spray, but I do now. The sinus mucosa has robust defenses, considering what we're exposed to on a daily basis, but I filter everything now. If you have any concerns about your peptides at all, it's another step we can take in the name of harm reduction.
 
Chili777 said:
You're very welcome. One thing I should have added is that I didn't filter my very first spray, but I do now. The sinus mucosa has robust defenses, considering what we're exposed to on a daily basis, but I filter everything now. If you have any concerns about your peptides at all, it's another step we can take in the name of harm reduction.
Click to expand...
Appreciate it. I finished reading the thread you posted and caught that. I planned to filter, just because I'm in my head about everything anyway. It's one, inexpensive step to reduce harm...might as well. Thank you!
 
So I have some Epithalon on the way, one of a few efforts to try and help my wife start to sleep again- been total garbage for her for the last 3 months.

Planning on starting her @ .5mg SQ and work up to 1mg (perhaps on a subsequent cycle) for 20(ish) days on, 4x/year. Then alternately cycling DISP+CJC+IPA during the “off” cycles.

Does this sound solid? These peps are a new space for me.
 
DragonOfTheSea said:
So I have some Epithalon on the way, one of a few efforts to try and help my wife start to sleep again- been total garbage for her for the last 3 months.

Planning on starting her @ .5mg SQ and work up to 1mg (perhaps on a subsequent cycle) for 20(ish) days on, 4x/year. Then alternately cycling DISP+CJC+IPA during the “off” cycles.

Does this sound solid? These peps are a new space for me.
Click to expand...
By DISP do you mean DSIP? Pep-pedia says they are synergistic, so that should work.
pep-pedia.org

DSIP - Dosing, Side Effects, Stacking & Research | Pep-Pedia

DSIP (Delta Sleep-Inducing Peptide) is a naturally occurring nonapeptide (Trp-Ala-Gly-Gly-Asp-Ala-Ser-Gly-Glu) discovered in 1974 in rabbit brain. Originally...
pep-pedia.org pep-pedia.org

I have heard, anecdotally, that some people with chronic insomnia have an inverse reaction to Epitalon taken just before bed and it keeps them up, so you may want to experiment with morning vs. late evening. With DSIP, that may not be an issue. I haven't researched the other two, so I can't comment on the combination.
 
vale113 said:
Hi guys, Does anyone use Epithalon with Reta? I'd like to try it for sleep. Does it help? What dosage should I start with? Many say mcg, others mg.
Click to expand...
I do 250-500 mcg of epithalon. Cycling it for a month.
 
Chili777 said:
By DISP do you mean DSIP? Pep-pedia says they are synergistic, so that should work.
pep-pedia.org

DSIP - Dosing, Side Effects, Stacking & Research | Pep-Pedia

DSIP (Delta Sleep-Inducing Peptide) is a naturally occurring nonapeptide (Trp-Ala-Gly-Gly-Asp-Ala-Ser-Gly-Glu) discovered in 1974 in rabbit brain. Originally...
pep-pedia.org pep-pedia.org

I have heard, anecdotally, that some people with chronic insomnia have an inverse reaction to Epitalon taken just before bed and it keeps them up, so you may want to experiment with morning vs. late evening. With DSIP, that may not be an issue. I haven't researched the other two, so I can't comment on the combination.
Click to expand...
Yeah, DSIP, my bad. And yes I’ve heard of the inverse effect, however the sleep issues aren’t insomnia based, they’re a GLP use side unfortunately.

The “sleep optimization stack” actually includes all of the peps I mentioned- DSIP+CJC1295+IPA+EPI. However due to the short cycle of the EPI, and the longer cycle-ability of the others, alternating them seems logical.
 
DragonOfTheSea said:
Yeah, DSIP, my bad. And yes I’ve heard of the inverse effect, however the sleep issues aren’t insomnia based, they’re a GLP use side unfortunately.

The “sleep optimization stack” actually includes all of the peps I mentioned- DSIP+CJC1295+IPA+EPI. However due to the short cycle of the EPI, and the longer cycle-ability of the others, alternating them seems logical.
Click to expand...
OK, in that case I've had the same issue. I do sleep better when running epitalon and I can avoid the dreaded 3 am wakeup call. When I'm not cycling it, I've found that Selank (1 mg SQ) has a calming effect and also allows me to sleep well. I usually pin 2 hours before bed. I have noticed I need to go 3 weeks on/1 week off for it to maintain the same effect.
 
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