High Estradiol - Reta & TRT

[Alpha_Icarus]

Hey,

I am on TRT/Reta and looking for some feedback from others that have hopped on the Reta and TRT train. I have a couple questions that hopefully some more experience users can help with:

TRT with Reta, the TRT is generally used to preserve lean muscle mass. I have been at a deficit and losing some steady weight (approx 2lbs/week)

39M starting at 235lbs (current ~219-223 depending on day time)
Exercise 4-5 days a week -weightlifting, 30mins cardio (walking at incline)
cardio heart rate 128BPM
At caloric deficit, prioritizing protein intake
Tirated up from 2, 4 and now comfortable at 5mg of reta split into two doses a week (2x 2.5mg)
Once weekly injection so Sustanon250 IM into quad

Before starting I had bloodwork done and test was coming in at 6nmol (below normal range) currently at week 5 its up to 30 (normal range was between ~8-35) so in the higher range of regular now.

My estadiol has skyrocketed though - im sitting at well above 200.

We know that being overweight, there's more aromatisation from the fat cells in the body and this is no doubt a big influence to these high levels. The Reta is doing a great job and I'm starting to lean out. I seem to be maintaining a good amount of lean mass so far.

Anyone else run super high estrogen? at levels this high should I be on an AI at .5mg arimidex twice a week?

I'm curious if anyone else has run into this with the test and reta combo? Any thoughts, feedback, advice?

 

[Airborne Daddy]

Hey,

I am on TRT/Reta and looking for some feedback from others that have hopped on the Reta and TRT train. I have a couple questions that hopefully some more experience users can help with:

TRT with Reta, the TRT is generally used to preserve lean muscle mass. I have been at a deficit and losing some steady weight (approx 2lbs/week)

39M starting at 235lbs (current ~219-223 depending on day time)
Exercise 4-5 days a week -weightlifting, 30mins cardio (walking at incline)
cardio heart rate 128BPM
At caloric deficit, prioritizing protein intake
Tirated up from 2, 4 and now comfortable at 5mg of reta split into two doses a week (2x 2.5mg)
Once weekly injection so Sustanon250 IM into quad

Before starting I had bloodwork done and test was coming in at 6nmol (below normal range) currently at week 5 its up to 30 (normal range was between ~8-35) so in the higher range of regular now.

My estadiol has skyrocketed though - im sitting at well above 200.

We know that being overweight, there's more aromatisation from the fat cells in the body and this is no doubt a big influence to these high levels. The Reta is doing a great job and I'm starting to lean out. I seem to be maintaining a good amount of lean mass so far.

Anyone else run super high estrogen? at levels this high should I be on an AI at .5mg arimidex twice a week?

I'm curious if anyone else has run into this with the test and reta combo? Any thoughts, feedback, advice?

250mg of test is alot for trt....200 is common and alot of guys do 150, 160.... get ur testosterone tested about 36hrs after ur pin, I'll bet its about 2000 at that point which is almost double normal. I would run a lower dose 150-180mg of sust and split that into twice a week. I take 1mg arimidex twice a week when I pin 100mg test twice a week for 200mg total and my estrogen will still be at 70 and I'm fine with that.... 200 estrogen is way high and ur likely retaining alot of water and ur BP is likely high. Lower ur test dose, split it into twice a week, up ur arimidex and check estrogen again in maybe 3 weeks. Get the sensitive estradiol test it's much more accurate...

 

[Calm Logic]

As discussed at Meso, primo helps with estrogen, at least indirectly by requiring less use of testosterone. Anavar (as an oral) wrecked my ALT values to ten times normal, but it was cool while it lasted, greatly lowering the need for more testosterone.

 

[TexGal]

I know there are different schools of thought on estrogen for men. My husband years ago (not using an AI) had his estrogen plummet. Now he’s a naturally lean guy but this h h happened when he was using TRT at high doses like you are on. His estrogen went to u detectable levels. It was the worst thing he’s ever gone through and it took 3-4 months just to climb out of the whole. This was 5-7yrs ago and he still struggles to keep his estrogen up. He has had to do injections of estrogen just to stay in a normal range and to feel good. He targets 70-90 for him. I say this both as a cautionary tale of those super high testosterone doses and that you don’t want to lower your estrogen too much so I would go low and slow on the AI especially if you are not feeling bad and it is just the number that has you concerned. If you are not having severe side effects from it being high then I’d try lowering your testosterone amount first and see if your estrogen naturally falls. Functional medicine doctors are now of the opinion that estrogen is heart protective for men and that AI’s should not be used. I’m just putting out there another line of thinking to research for you.

 

[mraajr]

Get on a lower dose of a single ester and start pinning more often. Every day if you can. 200 is far too high.

 

[Jellybelly54]

I would recommend using DIM/I3C as well as using test cyp at a lower dose than what you’re at right now . That would likely fix everything without needing an AI. I would also take a sulphoraphane supplement like Avmacol to help in the detox process

 

[Airborne Daddy]

As discussed at Meso, primo helps with estrogen, at least indirectly by requiring less use of testosterone. Anavar (as an oral) wrecked my ALT values to ten times normal, but it was cool while it lasted, greatly lowering the need for more testosterone.

Agreed, but I don't know when the new generation substituted mast or primo as an ai....its another compound to smash ur hdl. I understand the new tren studies where it used to be 350mg and now they stick to 100mg a week cuz it actually does 50 derogatory things to your brain, body, cells, organs, etc.. but when did an aromatose inhibitor become so taboo....mast and primo don't aromatize, what do they do for a guy on 250 or 500mg of test at 25 or 30% bf.... nuthin.

 

[Airborne Daddy]

I know there are different schools of thought on estrogen for men. My husband years ago (not using an AI) had his estrogen plummet. Now he’s a naturally lean guy but this h h happened when he was using TRT at high doses like you are on. His estrogen went to u detectable levels. It was the worst thing he’s ever gone through and it took 3-4 months just to climb out of the whole. This was 5-7yrs ago and he still struggles to keep his estrogen up. He has had to do injections of estrogen just to stay in a normal range and to feel good. He targets 70-90 for him. I say this both as a cautionary tale of those super high testosterone doses and that you don’t want to lower your estrogen too much so I would go low and slow on the AI especially if you are not feeling bad and it is just the number that has you concerned. If you are not having severe side effects from it being high then I’d try lowering your testosterone amount first and see if your estrogen naturally falls. Functional medicine doctors are now of the opinion that estrogen is heart protective for men and that AI’s should not be used. I’m just putting out there another line of thinking to research for you.

Excellent point, crashing estrogen is definitely a bad thing as well. And most of us agree estrogen for a man doesn't have to be 20-45. If everything is good at 60 or 90 that's fine. 200 isn't. The estradiol sensitive test is important cuz a regular test may put a guy at 110 and the sensitive test may likely say 50.... so dudes kill the ai and crash the estrogen. Still I'm dumbfounded how taking exogenous testosterone with no ai crashed his testosterone unless he's 3%body fat. Even if, test supplementation still aromatizes....