I accidentally found official confirmation Eli Lilly is running a trial investigating dosages of 20 and 25mg Tirzepatide

[penewbie]

There's been rumors of this for quite a while, specifically I first heard about this from Man On The Pen, that Lilly is running high dosage trials, being 20 and 25mg, but as of yet, I haven't seen any official confirmation. What we did have confirmation of is Lilly running "Investigational dosage" trials, but the mg amount was not specified.

Well I was fucking around googling shit, and I happened upon an Eli Lilly patent, wherein they completely lay out their trial step-by-step, and there it was, in black on white.

WO2024006662A1 - Tirzepatide compositions and use - Google Patents

A composition and methods of dosing such tirzepatide composition, comprising a tirzepatide, or a salt thereof at a concentration selected from the group consisting of 2.5 mg/mL, 40 mg/mL, and 50 mg/mL; NaCl; and dibasic sodium phosphate is provided.

patents.google.com

Guess they don't have a 25mg dose pen yet, they will actually have to jab twice with the low dosage pens.

Now, with that being said, hypothetically, why would I want to stack Reta, when I could just just increase my Tirz dosage to 25mg?


Oh, btw, that patent had another interesting tidbit, where they ran a trial looking at the degradation of Tirz over a period of 6 months, and the results sure did surprise me:

The liquid Tirzepatide, even at 30 degree Celsius for a period of 6 months, only lost a few percent purity. While at 5 degree Celsius, it lost barely anything at all. Granted, they do add some stabilizer to the mixtures, but still, if the liquid Tirz is this stable, then surely lyophilized Tirz is basically bullet proof.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

Dang that's a big find. Nice work. Looks like the high dose protocol was for patients who had previously been on metformin. not sure if that really matters at all.

 

[clayd]

good find

 

[clayd]

interesting that lilly's starting purity is in the 97s and grey market customers get uncomfortable with anything less than 99. some people say the grey market stuff is stronger, maybe it actually is!

 

[penewbie]

interesting that lilly's starting purity is in the 97s and grey market customers get uncomfortable with anything less than 99. some people say the grey market stuff is stronger, maybe it actually is!

Huh, true that. Didn't even notice.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

interesting that lilly's starting purity is in the 97s and grey market customers get uncomfortable with anything less than 99. some people say the grey market stuff is stronger, maybe it actually is!

Are we certain that the way we define purity (stuff that is not the target peptide but is quite similar to it) the same way pharma defines it? Like would a bunch of cyanide in the sample, which would have no bearing on a janoshik purity figure, show up in a pharma purity test?

My guess is we aren't comparing apples to apples here but im not sure

 

[banemorth]

Wow that purity study really puts my mind at ease. I have a -40c freezer and just couldn't justify spending the bucks to get a -80c one. Looks like it may be wholly unnecessary.

 

[DevynL90]

i believe i read that this study ends in about a month and then they'll likely spend all of 2025 analysing the data before publishing their results.

 

[Superfluous]

Interesting find. Thanks.

The fact that they're even trialing these high doses makes me feel fairly safe now on my 7.5mg weekly - we're probably not going to all start growing extra nipples in a couple of years.

Also when I was on brand Mounjaro I had to source from a different country where it wasn't refrigerated for a few days while in transit. Good to know that it probably wouldn't have affected the potency much (as it wasn't 30c in transit and was put straight in the fridge after it arrived).

Regarding purity, as someone else just alluded to, I think we're all fine with 97% purity if we're sure the 3% of whatever other stuff isn't going to kill us (or give us extra nipples)

 

[Superfluous]

Oh also, 25mg / 0.5ml means I can save on the bac water??

 

[clayd]

Are we certain that the way we define purity (stuff that is not the target peptide but is quite similar to it) the same way pharma defines it? Like would a bunch of cyanide in the sample, which would have no bearing on a janoshik purity figure, show up in a pharma purity test?

My guess is we aren't comparing apples to apples here but im not sure

i'd buy that

 

[penewbie]

Are we certain that the way we define purity (stuff that is not the target peptide but is quite similar to it) the same way pharma defines it? Like would a bunch of cyanide in the sample, which would have no bearing on a janoshik purity figure, show up in a pharma purity test?

My guess is we aren't comparing apples to apples here but im not sure

Oh, I think we are defining it in the same way, and you'll be incredibly surprised at what they're willing to tolerate in terms of purity:

"In an embodiment, a composition is stable about 2 years at 30 degrees Celsius. In an embodiment, a composition is at least 90% pure active agent at the end of shelf life. In an embodiment, a composition is at least 95% pure active agent at the end of shelf life. In an embodiment, a composition is at least 90% purity tirzepatide after about 2 years at 5 degrees Celsius. In an embodiment, a composition is at least 90% purity tirzepatide after about 2 years at 30 degrees Celsius. In an embodiment, a composition is at least 95% purity tirzepatide after at least 6 months at 5 degrees Celsius. In an embodiment, a composition is at least 95% purity tirzepatide after at least 6 months at 30 degrees Celsius. "

And:

"As used herein “shelf life” means the time for which the material may be stored and remain suitable for use. As used herein, “suitable for use” means tirzepatide percent purity, as measured by reverse phase HPLC, is within the regulatory approval specifications for degradation products. As used herein “purity” means the percentage of active pharmaceutical ingredient remaining in a composition after a period of time. In certain embodiments, shelf life is 2 years at 30 degrees Celsius. In certain embodiments shelf life is 2 years at 5 degrees Celsius. In certain embodiments, shelf life is at least 6 months at 5 degrees Celsius. In certain embodiments, shelf life is at least 6 months at 30 degrees Celsius. In certain embodiments, tirzepatide purity of 92% as measured by reverse phase HPLC, is suitable for use. In certain embodiments, tirzepatide purity about 95%, as measured by reverse phase HPLC is suitable for use. In certain embodiments, tirzepatide purity about 90% as measured by reverse phase HPLC is suitable for use.” In certain embodiments, tirzepatide purity about 85%, as measured by reverse phase HPLC, is suitable for use. In certain embodiments, tirzepatide purity about 80% as measured by reverse phase HPLC is suitable for use. When used herein, the term “about” refers to an amount that is within ten percent (10%) of the stated figure, wherein the intended amount may be within 10% less than the stated amount, or within 10% more than the stated amount.

If I'm reading this absurdly technical description correctly, they are willing to tolerate down to 70% purity at the end of the shelf life.

I'm starting to think that compounded and gray Tirz really is stronger.

Oh also, 25mg / 0.5ml means I can save on the bac water??

Probably, but, bac water isn't exactly expensive, and the other thing, you should probably use at least 20% of the syringe's volume, according to a study I read. This is to minimize margin of error.

 

[penewbie]

i believe i read that this study ends in about a month and then they'll likely spend all of 2025 analysing the data before publishing their results.

Unfortunately, it only recently begun, and ends late 2026.

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov