Is oral tirzepatide a full-on scam or just unproven?

[clayd]

Some of the online outfits are starting to offer oral tirzepatide as an alternative to subq injections. I've seen everyone jumping in immediately and saying that's just a scam, these providers are sacrificing their credibility, etc.

I've done approximately 5 minutes of internet research so far and here's what i've found:
* peptides are difficult to produce in pill form because the gastrointestinal tract destroys peptides during digestion
* however, there is an oral tablet form of semaglutide that's fda approved for diabetes. studies show weight loss on oral sema is not quite as good as injectable sema but still better than liraglutide. it is just as effective for diabetes.
* it looks like oral sema is dosed at 14mg/day vs. 0.5mg/wk in shot form. So it seems like they just give you 200x as much and count on your GI tract destroying 99% of it, and the 1% that survives is comparable to what you'd get in a shot.
* i saw on a henrymeds subreddit that a company rep said their oral tirzepatide is in sublingual (ODT) form so that it's absorbed through the membranes in the mouth vs. getting nuked by your stomach acid

So in general i'm wondering, is oral tirzepatide a real scam, or is it just an experimental form of the drug that needs to be proven out - that it can be effectively administered and is bioavailable in the same strength as subq?

i'm stocked up on grey tirz for a long time but i'm just wondering if these telehealth providers and compound pharmacies really are just doing a money grab or if an ODT or 200x strength tablet form of tirz might actually work.

 

[lazygardener]

It's a scam. If it worked half decently Lilly would have done it. It's 100% a sketchy money grab by telehealth/compounding. I dare them to show PK results showing actually appropriate levels of absorption.

Rybelsus has a very particular delivery system which is the only reason it works a little bit, it's released at the exact correct point in the gi system.

 

[Vicki]

I think its a scam. I took rybelsus and it works but it needed to be taken a very specific way (empty stomach, less than 1/4 cup of water, same time every day)

I highly doubt the telehealth companies have copied the delivery system. Some say they have sublingual absorption but i doubt it works. I've also seen videos where people say it MAY work but the dosage has to be very high to account for the losses. I don't think the telehealth companies want to overdose it this high for cost reasons.

 

[jdaniel30]

Not sure if it is a scam. What if Lilly knows that a 200X quantity taken in pill form is as effective as injected. If a pill regimen was still priced at 1500+ a month, people may figure out how to grind the pills into an injectable form and basically get nearly a years supply of tirzepatide from a single pill.

 

[clayd]

I think its a scam. I took rybelsus and it works but it needed to be taken a very specific way (empty stomach, less than 1/4 cup of water, same time every day)

I highly doubt the telehealth companies have copied the delivery system. Some say they have sublingual absorption but i doubt it works. I've also seen videos where people say it MAY work but the dosage has to be very high to account for the losses. I don't think the telehealth companies want to overdose it this high for cost reasons.

i doubt cost is a concern really, if they buy it by the kilogram they can get good pricing, and they mark stuff up dramatically. but they should be cautious about dosing at 200x the normal amount or whatever, without knowing the potential side effects or consequences.

 

[clayd]

Not sure if it is a scam. What if Lilly knows that a 200X quantity taken in pill form is as effective as injected. If a pill regimen was still priced at 1500+ a month, people may figure out how to grind the pills into an injectable form and basically get nearly a years supply of tirzepatide from a single pill.

it looks like the guys who are selling oral tirz so far are selling it as dissolvable tablets at pretty small doses, like 3mg or 6mg, which i suppose you'd take once a day.

no pill form yet at 200x the normal dose that you can grind into subq...which is a genius idea.
wonder if that would be possible with rybelsus/sema oral. a 14mg tablet could be 6 weeks of 2.4mg subq

 

[jdaniel30]

it looks like the guys who are selling oral tirz so far are selling it as dissolvable tablets at pretty small doses, like 3mg or 6mg, which i suppose you'd take once a day.

no pill form yet at 200x the normal dose that you can grind into subq...which is a genius idea.
wonder if that would be possible with rybelsus/sema oral. a 14mg tablet could be 6 weeks of 2.4mg subq

I lack the sense of adventure to try it but enough filtering and UV sterilization would be less risky than some of the things that people are trying now.

 

[glpfun]

Scam but once a day oral drugs are definitely in the clinical testing pipeline

 

[Lilith]

I think its a scam. I took rybelsus and it works but it needed to be taken a very specific way (empty stomach, less than 1/4 cup of water, same time every day)

I highly doubt the telehealth companies have copied the delivery system. Some say they have sublingual absorption but i doubt it works. I've also seen videos where people say it MAY work but the dosage has to be very high to account for the losses. I don't think the telehealth companies want to overdose it this high for cost reasons.

I highly doubt half the people interested in taking oral tirz could follow those instructions. These people will have to be silly enough to fall for the marketing and inevitable astroturfing of how amazing it is. Also who is actually making that stuff? Oh the irony considering what I have in my freezer.

 

[YoYoFat]

It's a scam. If it worked half decently Lilly would have done it.

Yup, primarily because it’s 1000% easier to manufacture pills and sublingual.

 

[49metal]

Just some ideas: I'll note that a considerable number of seemingly real people report using these sublingual preparations of Tirzepatide to good effect and have been for months.. Most of the outfits selling these sell them as a sideline of their main compounded subcutaneous shot business, so if they were total bunk you would expect reports to circulate publicly and hurt their trade--though the sublinguals are usually a bit cheaper than the shots, which does NOT make sense to me. Lastly, while they are certainly different chemicals Novo Nordisk has an oral/sublingual version of Semaglutide in phase II trials, so it is not unthinkable a similar feat could be accomplished with Tirzepitide. Just a thought.

 

[seanc34]

It’s not a scam, but it’s just an inefficient route if administration