Lilly's marketing approach and its pipeline of medications

[Grogu]

Eli Lilly Isn't Replacing Zepbound -- It's Building an Obesity Empire - AOL

And it's not too late to get in on the action.

www.aol.com

Rather than canalbilizing tirzepatide sales, management appears to be telling investors that retatrutide will be marketed to the more obese and metabolically challenged patients as to differeniate the product in the market. That should be interesting conversations at doctors offices.

Patient: Hey doc, I hear that there is this great new drug on the market and that I'll lose a ton of weight

Doc: Yeah, but you're not fat enough

Patient: Should I gain some weight

Doc: No, just use the less effective medication

Nine months later.....

Patient: Hey doc, I didn't lose enough, can I try that new drug?

Doc: Oh no, we have an adjunct called eloralintide that would be much better to add to the tirzepatide. Now you have to pay for two scripts.

 

[randompersonrandom]

So odd. I just tried to post that there needs to be a react for being exhausted by capit alism, and that the sad one isn't enough, and I got a "your post contains prohibited content" note.

 

[Foggy-Hollow]

Doc: Yeah, but you're not fat enough

That’s just the state of our system. It’s interested in treating, not preventing.

I think they’re trying to get too fine of a line drawn. 🤷‍♀️

 

[ambot88]

So dumb. There's no I would have gotten a script for reta so I am very glad to have found grey. Just give everybody the best one to start.

 

[5byfive]

Honestly, medically that may be the best strategy. I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion, but I don't see Reta as being the best choice for most people. Everyone wants faster, faster, more, more, but faster isn't necessary better and often its much worse. The faster you lose weight, the more of that weight is muscle. Slower weight loss does not feel as good psychologically, but its usually better physically. I think the rate at which people are losing on the trials for Reta is very concerning. There are several drugs that may help preserve muscle in the pipeline which would change the equation but for now, I just don't see it being the best option for most people.

At lower doses, stacking, etc., a lot of the things people here are doing, that's a different story. I don't want to say its just plain bad; I don't think it is. I just think most people would be better starting on Tirz and only using Reta if its not working for them.

 

[Calm Logic]

At lower doses, stacking, etc., a lot of the things people here are doing, that's a different story. I don't want to say its just plain bad; I don't think it is. I just think most people would be better starting on Tirz and only using Reta if its not working for them.

And there are ppl who save reta for the last part of their "weight loss journey" since the weight loss is usually much slower then.

 

[Grogu]

Honestly, medically that may be the best strategy. I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion, but I don't see Reta as being the best choice for most people. Everyone wants faster, faster, more, more, but faster isn't necessary better and often its much worse. The faster you lose weight, the more of that weight is muscle. Slower weight loss does not feel as good psychologically, but its usually better physically. I think the rate at which people are losing on the trials for Reta is very concerning. There are several drugs that may help preserve muscle in the pipeline which would change the equation but for now, I just don't see it being the best option for most people.

At lower doses, stacking, etc., a lot of the things people here are doing, that's a different story. I don't want to say its just plain bad; I don't think it is. I just think most people would be better starting on Tirz and only using Reta if its not working for them.

You make some really good points here, but I'm not 100% convinced that the faster you lose weight that more of that weight is muscle. I just haven't seen any studies that support that claim. Muscle loss on glp-1 medications appears similar to when losing equivalent weight under other means. All patients losing considerable amounts of weight need to prioritize protein and strength training. Losing muscle mass in addition to fat mass is a natural adaption as the body loses weight irrespective of the method. Similar to how alopecia noted with glp-1s is likely the weight loss rather than glp-1s themselves.

What you suggest as far as using reta as a step-up medication sounds very reasonable. But that's not how the article mentions that management positioned the medication to investors. They position it like there is a huge pie and this is just another slice. If someone steps up from tirz, then that's one less tirz patient...

I guess my point is that given psychology, people would probably prefer the best performing medication and I'm sure that will come with a lot of tough discussions in doctors offices.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

EL, has several studies in phase 2 and phase 3,

As more long term safety studies are conducted it should be available for more indications. The two studies obesity with knee osteoarthritis and type II diabetes being the first submissions for approval.

Later studies focused on obesity with obstructive sleep apnea and diabetes with fatty liver disease being the likely next two.

 

[5byfive]

You make some really good points here, but I'm not 100% convinced that the faster you lose weight that more of that weight is muscle.

I don't know that anyone is really debating this. There may not be studies specifically looking at this, but it seems to be there in the data. Here is just one sorce:

"But as data in the weight loss arena accrues, another challenge has been revealed. People dropping pounds on Ozempic are losing not only fat, but also muscle mass. This is a condition known as sarcopenia. As muscle mass diminishes, so do strength, stamina and resting metabolic rate. To be clear, sarcopenia is a risk in any rapid weight loss, and it is not unique to semaglutides."

Rapid weight loss can lead to loss of muscle mass

I am 74 years old and have Type 2 diabetes. I was prescribed Ozempic, and it helped lower my A1C. I also lost 22 pounds, which I'm happy about. I have heard you can also lose muscle on Ozempic, so I'm concerned. What can I do to avoid that?

www.uclahealth.org

 

[RubbaDubba1]

Eli Lilly Isn't Replacing Zepbound -- It's Building an Obesity Empire - AOL

And it's not too late to get in on the action.

www.aol.com

Rather than canalbilizing tirzepatide sales, management appears to be telling investors that retatrutide will be marketed to the more obese and metabolically challenged patients as to differeniate the product in the market. That should be interesting conversations at doctors offices.

Patient: Hey doc, I hear that there is this great new drug on the market and that I'll lose a ton of weight

Doc: Yeah, but you're not fat enough

Patient: Should I gain some weight

Doc: No, just use the less effective medication

Nine months later.....

Patient: Hey doc, I didn't lose enough, can I try that new drug?

Doc: Oh no, we have an adjunct called eloralintide that would be much better to add to the tirzepatide. Now you have to pay for two scripts.

Along similarish lines, I had to lose 30lbs to have weight loss surgery. Which isn't uncommon, it helps shrink the the Liver and makes the surgery easier, quicker etc. A few years later I had a family member go to same Hospital to get weight loss surgery, was 27 days from Surgery and new rules came out and guess what? You're Too Fat Now! BMI to high (insurance reasons) had to lose another 65 lbs to get it. End up at another Hospital a year later, which was a cluster F, but it all worked out in the end.

Even Ozempic wasn't out yet, but yeah that would be an interesting conversation. I'm sure Lilly will have a sales video for the Docs, to educate them.

 

[Grogu]

Even Ozempic wasn't out yet, but yeah that would be an interesting conversation. I'm sure Lilly will have a sales video for the Docs, to educate them.

And this is exactly where many of the conversations will occur.

I went to my pcp fifteen months ago and asked about getting on Ozempic, because that's what I saw on TV and I hadn't heard of Zepbound at the time. My doc was at least up-to-date and said that Zepbound is a better medication and that he was prescribing that to his patients. I had never heard of it. And that's part of the issue too. How do you prescribe something you know is inferior if there is something better. Unless reta isn't better..... Lilly is in a tough spot.

 

[tendency]

Personally, and anecdotally from a few folks that have tried both, I'm not convinced Reta IS the better drug. Definitely seem to be more sides on it than Tirz for a good number of folks.

 

[RubbaDubba1]

You make some really good points here, but I'm not 100% convinced that the faster you lose weight that more of that weight is muscle. I just haven't seen any studies that support that claim. Muscle loss on glp-1 medications appears similar to when losing equivalent weight under other means. All patients losing considerable amounts of weight need to prioritize protein and strength training. Losing muscle mass in addition to fat mass is a natural adaption as the body loses weight irrespective of the method. Similar to how alopecia noted with glp-1s is likely the weight loss rather than glp-1s themselves.

What you suggest as far as using reta as a step-up medication sounds very reasonable. But that's not how the article mentions that management positioned the medication to investors. They position it like there is a huge pie and this is just another slice. If someone steps up from tirz, then that's one less tirz patient...

I guess my point is that given psychology, people would probably prefer the best performing medication and I'm sure that will come with a lot of tough discussions in doctors offices.

I lost my last 150lbs with Tirz/Reta, over 16 months and gained 4lbs of lean mass. I had 3 Dexa scans done over that time and everyone was pretty surprised by the results. I never set foot in a gym, but I did alot of rehab in that time and did well (not great) with dieting. Tirz does have some muscle preserving properties to it, to what extent who knows? It just works really well for me.

View: https://youtu.be/kWzf4i5XhEw?t=1720

 

[BNLFL]

And there are ppl who save reta for the last part of their "weight loss journey" since the weight loss is usually much slower then.

I for one only heard of Reta from my kid who's up on this stuff. I really never heard of Tirz until I joined here, and my DIL (daughter-in-law) was on it with a script when I researching Reta.

 

[randompersonrandom]

Don't mind me, just testing something:

Capitalism?

Exhausted?

Edit: Ok, I give up. Somebody help me find the prohibited content in this.

 

[5byfive]

Don't mind me, just testing something:

Capitalism?

Exhausted?

Edit: Ok, I give up. Somebody help me find the prohibited content in this.

There are 2 filters for new posters, spam and prohibited content. The prohibited content seems to be pretty consistent even if it flags something that doesn't make sense. I think there is an issue with the spam filter. When I was under restriction and I got the spam flag, sometimes just resubmiting a couple times and it woild pass. Definitely not consistsnt.

 

[DragonOfTheSea]

Personally, and anecdotally from a few folks that have tried both, I'm not convinced Reta IS the better drug. Definitely seem to be more sides on it than Tirz for a good number of folks.

IMO the correct statement is “Reta is not unanimously the best drug for everyone”, nor is Tirz.
Individual biology/body chemistry/circumstance is so varied, there’s no way to say one is superior across the board. I think many find their experience with Reta superior to Tirz or Sema, and I think many people find their experience with Tirz superior to Reta or Sema, and I’m certain there are people that have had superior experiences with Sema than with Tirz or Reta as well..

 

[Rolltide61]

Don't mind me, just testing something:

Capitalism?

Exhausted?

Edit: Ok, I give up. Somebody help me find the prohibited content in this.

Zippy may have found it political. He doesn't like that.

 

[ThatNextGril]

Personally, and anecdotally from a few folks that have tried both, I'm not convinced Reta IS the better drug. Definitely seem to be more sides on it than Tirz for a good number of folks.

I kind of agree. It's subjective as to what "better" is at the very least. I've been on tirz for about 1.5 years and have to say it's perfect for me. Like, does exactly what it says on the tin for my food noise and hunger, but I have zero side effects. I tired reta for about 7 weeks and I hated it as much as it hated me: hunger, food noise, GI issues and bad sleep were mostly all I got form it. Went back to tirz and within 2 weeks all was well again. (And anecdotally, I have a friend who was on sema, switched to tirz and hated it, and is back happily on sema!).

 

[GLP1Pharmacist]

Hoping to charge more money?

 

[Thee Oohwee]

Eli Lilly Isn't Replacing Zepbound -- It's Building an Obesity Empire - AOL

And it's not too late to get in on the action.

www.aol.com

Rather than canalbilizing tirzepatide sales, management appears to be telling investors that retatrutide will be marketed to the more obese and metabolically challenged patients as to differeniate the product in the market. That should be interesting conversations at doctors offices.

Patient: Hey doc, I hear that there is this great new drug on the market and that I'll lose a ton of weight

Doc: Yeah, but you're not fat enough

Patient: Should I gain some weight

Doc: No, just use the less effective medication

Nine months later.....

Patient: Hey doc, I didn't lose enough, can I try that new drug?

Doc: Oh no, we have an adjunct called eloralintide that would be much better to add to the tirzepatide. Now you have to pay for two scripts.

I was just having a conversation with a friend today about peptides. I got cut off from Zepbound by the Great Insurance Ban Hammer in January. Hence, my eventual intro to the grey market. Even if they turned around and said they'd cover it again, I prefer getting my own, buying it myself for essentially pennies per mg, and controlling my own dosage. And honestly, I think its better than Lilly's. Well, I can honestly only speak on Reta - my Tirz came from ProRX when I did the compounded route. But I thought it hit harder than Eli's.

Once I got over the nervousness of drawing up my own dose and pinning myself - its been easy breazy. I love having control over this aspect of my health journey, and I feel fucking great.

 

[lessthanhalf]

I strongly suspect they will position retatrutide as their top line drug for severe obesity and maybe for its effects on reducing liver fat, and they will price it higher than tirzepatide to distinguish it in the market. From what I have read there will be increasing price pressure on GLP's to get cheaper, so maybe they will price it more like tirz is now and drop the price on tirz. No matter how they market it , doctors are going to choose the more effective drug in the end, the only real control the drug companies have is through advertising and pricing. As reta will be the most effective drug on the market charging extra for it seems very likely.

 

[Calm Logic]

And honestly, I think its better than Lilly's. Well, I can honestly only speak on Reta - my Tirz came from ProRX when I did the compounded route. But I thought it hit harder than Eli's.

Zepbound would be my choice hands down over grey tirz for not worrying about endotoxins, sterility, unknown excipients, and now salts. You could always get a higher dose of Zepbound.

 

[RetCurious]

Don't mind me, just testing something:

Capitalism?

Exhausted?

Edit: Ok, I give up. Somebody help me find the prohibited content in this.

The censor wouldn't let me use "fraud" to describe a fraud.
Edit: and now it goes through?

 

[m100568]

I'm thinking Orforglipron for maintenance and low level weight loss. Tirz marketed for moderate weight loss. Tirz plus Eloralintide for next step up. Retatrutide top end. Personally I want to try low dose Eloralintide and Reta for maintenance, but EL is not testing that combination.

 

[Raidenfat2fit]

I'm thinking Orforglipron for maintenance and low level weight loss. Tirz marketed for moderate weight loss. Tirz plus Eloralintide for next step up. Retatrutide top end. Personally I want to try low dose Eloralintide and Reta for maintenance, but EL is not testing that combination.

Same here