I want to research manufacturing methods of the different vendors and wondered where to start. Does anyone have information on how peptides (specifically trizepatide) are actually created, manufactured in China? Do all the vendors use the same manufacturing plant or are there differences in methods? Thank for your help in my research.
Manufacturing methods research
- Thread starter jas0441
- Start date
Sellers and manufacturers keep this information as hidden as possible. However, it can be said that there are a few large manufacturers who produce the peptides and sell the raw powder to the sellers.
Any seller claiming to be a manufacturer is likely just filling the raw powder into vials. If you really want to dive deep into this, you'll probably need to learn Chinese at a native level. Even in China, this is not a completely legal business.
Any seller claiming to be a manufacturer is likely just filling the raw powder into vials. If you really want to dive deep into this, you'll probably need to learn Chinese at a native level. Even in China, this is not a completely legal business.
What he said, there are more labs making the raws popping up. But not at a fast pace - that also means somewhat varying quality. Main source is a handful of high quality labs which you don’t really need to have any worries about.
Basically, there isn’t really any research you can do. Unless you intend to buy huge quantities and travel to China to source. Even then you will most likely only meet a couple representative at an office and never see even the outside of a lab 🙃
Someone someday will leakn info.
If you search enough around the interwebs, you'll find some.
You know what they say. Dead men tell no tales.
Magic fairy pixie dust, duh.
I stand corrected, I forgot about that 🤦♂️
I went looking for this one day and it's really hard to find any info.
I found this old video on youtube but it went way over my head.
Also edit to add. The patent to tirzepatide by eli lily describes exactly how they make it. I don't know enough chemistry to follow it though
I found this old video on youtube but it went way over my head.
Also edit to add. The patent to tirzepatide by eli lily describes exactly how they make it. I don't know enough chemistry to follow it though
AU2023203001B2 - Process for preparing a GIP/GLP1 dual agonist - Google Patents
The present invention provides novel intermediates and processes useful in the manufacture of tirzepatide, or a pharmaceutically acceptable salt thereof.
patents.google.com
I am just trying to learn and understand where and how this stuff is actually manufactured. If there are only a 'handful' of labs then all these vendors are getting from the same source. Then where does the variation in quality come in? Just following the breadcrumbs to learn. Thanks for the reply.
Thank you for this!
I like doing the research to really understand where this stuff is coming from, initially. Good exercise ( OP uses pronoun 'she').
Variation can come from multiple factors:
*All batches of raws will not be the same quality out of the same facility (though the best ones have pretty good consistency)
*New manufacturers might still be in an experimentation or learning phase
*Improper storage
*Improper handling during processing
Among others, but i suppose these would be the most likely variables.
Another significant factor would be whether the raws are synthesized as TFA, HCI or Acetate salts.
*Some gemini generated text because I'm lazy*
_____
Here's a breakdown of how each salt can impact these quality:
- TFA (Trifluoroacetic acid) salt: TFA salts are often chosen for their solubility and stability. However, TFA can be difficult to remove completely during the purification process, potentially leading to trace amounts remaining in the final product. This could affect purity and potentially cause side effects.
- HCl (Hydrochloric acid) salt: HCl salts are generally considered less stable than TFA salts, especially under certain storage conditions. They may be more susceptible to degradation, which can affect purity and potency.
- Acetate salt: Acetate salts are often preferred for their stability and ease of purification. They are generally considered a good choice for semaglutide and tirzepatide.
In conclusion, the choice of salt can influence the purity and stability of semaglutide and tirzepatide. While acetate salts are often preferred for their stability, TFA and HCl salts may also be used depending on specific factors. It's essential for manufacturers to carefully consider the potential benefits and risks associated with each salt type and ensure that their products meet the highest quality standards.
The choice of salt for brand-name semaglutide and tirzepatide medications can vary depending on the specific formulation and manufacturing process used by different pharmaceutical companies. However, the most commonly used salts are:
- Semaglutide:
- TFA (Trifluoroacetic acid) salt: TFA salts are often used for semaglutide due to their solubility and stability. However, as mentioned earlier, trace amounts of TFA may remain in the final product, which could potentially affect purity and safety.
- Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) analog: This is the active ingredient in semaglutide. It is typically formulated as a TFA salt to enhance its stability and solubility.
- Tirzepatide:
- Acetate salt: Acetate salts are commonly used for tirzepatide due to their stability and ease of purification. They are generally considered a good choice for this drug.
It's important to note that the salt used in a brand-name medication may not be publicly disclosed. If you have specific questions about the salt used in a particular brand, you can contact the pharmaceutical company directly for more information.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Basically, it's most likely fine, but there are some potential risks if the labs don't do things properly. I'm not a chemist nor an expert in the field.
But I'd say that the chances of the stuff you're getting being straight up harmful is rather low, but a possibility.
And there is a lot of discussions and information that isn't necessarily being considered properly/being isolated to make the situation look worse than it is - or better, depending on the agenda. Or not with an agenda at all, but rather a lack of knowledge/information.
Basically, you will probably not be able to get a full picture, or know exactly where your stuff comes from. So at the end of the day, you just have to either accept that risk or not 🙂
amynurse
GLP-1 Apprentice
I'm planning a China trip in a few years, I'll volunteer as tribute to do recon 😅
Spent a few weeks there in 2010, while adopting my daughter. Now that she's almost grown, we're gonna do a homeland trip ❤️
Spent a few weeks there in 2010, while adopting my daughter. Now that she's almost grown, we're gonna do a homeland trip ❤️
BacchusGPT
Just to add some info that might have been missed.
Initially I heard the "handful of labs" argument. Along with the "compounding pharmacies purchase from the same channels as gray market"
I believe both of those statements are false. Or more likely false in most cases.
I've heard from someone that I consider to be an expert that there are hundreds of labs.
Right, this is one of the variables I am trying to get a handle on.
I think the only person who would have the best chance to most accurately track the source of a peptide is Jano due to the sheer volume of testing they do.
They don't test for TFA or HCI. Only for the peptide itself. I'm not certain they can, or have the ability, to test for TFA.
I was under the impression that nearly all peptides start out with TFA as it is required to cleave the peptides off the solid-phase resin. But maybe they can use HCI for the same process.
I've heard the acetate form is the most desirable, but results in lower purity than other forms. So if you're seeing 99 percent purity, likely not acetate form.
The question I want to know and get a better handle on, is how much TFA is actually present in each dose and does it pose any short or long-term health risks? USP limit is 0.05 percent TFA presence.
Very little data exists on this. You can find studies based on inhaled anesthetics that convert to TFA in the body and cause liver damage. But I'd swagger that TFA amounts in this case are significantly greater than what we might be exposed to.
Best I can do is "anecdotal" evidence that the TFAs present don't cause any short-term health risks. And Janoshik is quoted as saying TFAs presence in these meds is "absolutely inconsequential" when speaking to in vitro use of these peps.
The "everything is from the same source" argument is definitely a bit silly.
It doesn't make sense - And even if it was true, there is a significant difference in how a registered compounding pharmacy handles the raws they buy, compared to a licensed lab making some dough on the side, compared to a proper ug lab, compared to a Walter white RV.
As for "a handful" that is a very loosely defined term, "a handful out of the amount of labs and "labs" offering these products, actually manufacture the raws themselves", would be more accurate I suppose.
As for the salts, my personal take is that it's a nothing burger - But it sure seems scary since it's difficult to have a full understanding of the significance. It's rather similar to the discussion about sterility - the more tests are done, the more failed tests we'll see.
I wouldn't really be surprised if compounding pharmacies failed sterility tests too if people started doing 3rd party tests (This is not something I know, just an assumption - re-sterilizing raws can be quite expensive)
mostlydamp
GLP-1 Enthusiast
I'm assuming that production of these compounds could be linked pretty heavily to organized crime in China, right? I mean I could be wrong, but I understand that even above the board businesses may deal with corruption in China. These are businesses that have to either truly stay hidden or "stay hidden" with CCP bribes. When I bought from QSC I took a look at just the crypto wallet that I transferred to and it had I think 5-6 million dollars worth of crypto that had been transferred to it. I had an "...oh" moment when I realized that this is organized crime on a relatively large scale. That would come with a lot of protection for the organization and a lot of fear when it comes to revealing details of any kind.
You are not wrong 🙃
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