MOTS-c / SLU-PP-332 stacking perspectives

[gankofett]

Hey all,

I have been researching for a bit and am all in on Reta. Getting older (50+) and am keen to focus on mitochondrial health given recent advances in bio-tech.

I have a lot of interest in MOTS-c and SLU-PP-332 as a potential stack and I have heard/read some conflicting perspectives on whether to do MC first, then SLU vs SLU first then MC, run together, etc…

I have read and have had folks tell me “Use SLU-PP-332 first to burn fat, then MOTS-c”, but that logic assumes that insulin sensitivity is already intact, and my mitochondria is already in a healthy state, which for me is not the case given that I have been pre-diabetic for a while (getting MUCH better w/ Reta).

After doing some more digging it appears that in my case the inverse may be more appropriate given that MOTS-c is analogous to a crew that fixes the potholes and traffic lights, while SLU-PP-332 widens the highway ( do I understand that correctly?).

Additionally, if I demand burn from a system that can’t access fuel efficiently, could it not result in diminishing returns, or worse fatigue or flat results?

Hoping to get perspectives on the subject from others with experience to sanity check what I am thinking prior to making a large purchase.

Thanks in advance!

 

[nevets]

I haven’t heard much of stacking SLU-PP-332 in terms of mitochondrial protocols, but I have heard of SS-31 before taking MOTS-C. Is it possible you are confusing the two?

 

[MsGizmo]

There is a whole thing written about. I intend on trying this one out in a few months.

 

[gankofett]

I haven’t heard much of stacking SLU-PP-332 in terms of mitochondrial protocols, but I have heard of SS-31 before taking MOTS-C. Is it possible you are confusing the two?

Good catch! You are 100% right, I did conflate two different lines of research.

My original question should have been about SS-31 and MOTS-c, not SLU-PP-332. I was reading SS-31 -> MOTS-c sequencing discussions and then pivoted to SLU research, which led to the mix-up. Too much NYE Willie Nelson’s rescue remedy!

That said, I am also exploring whether SLU-PP-332 could be incorporated later as a complementary agent, given its characterization as an exercise mimetic and its role in upregulating mitochondrial oxidative capacity (via ERRα/γ signaling). The animal data suggesting increased mitochondrial biogenesis and fatty-acid oxidation is what prompted that line of thinking.

Animal study:

A Synthetic ERR Agonist Alleviates Metabolic Syndrome - PMC

Physical exercise induces physiologic adaptations and is effective at reducing the risk of premature death from all causes. Pharmacological exercise mimetics may be effective in the treatment of a range of diseases including obesity and metabolic ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Conceptually, the framework I am considering is:

• Retatrutide -> fasting-mimetic backdrop (glycemic control, fat loss, lean mass preservation)
• SS-31 -> mitochondrial efficiency / engine repair
• MOTS-c -> improved insulin signaling and fuel routing
• SLU-PP-332 (optional, later) -> increased mitochondrial workload / exercise-like stimulus

I am curious whether others see this sequencing as mechanistically sound, particularly the idea of stabilizing mitochondrial functions and insulin sensitivity before introducing a higher oxidative demand signal.

Thanks for your response! It actually helped me to re-think and refine my question.

Happy new year!

 

[gankofett]

There is a whole thing written about. I intend on trying this one out in a few months.

Thank you, taking a look.

 

[cygnus]

I actually intend to run SLU-PP-332 at the end of the 14 week cycle referenced that involves NAD+, SS-31, and MOTS-C. However, I'm going to pair SLU with 5-Amino-1MQ for the 4 weeks after that 14 weeks. Since SLU operates better with high NAD (anecdotally), I'm going to use my remaining NAD+ from the 14 week cycle and titrate up on 5Amino (which drives NMNT down and NAD up anyhow). The last time I used SLU it was very strong for month 1 and then I felt nothing on month 2, so there seems to be some sort of receptor burnout -- if you do any sort of cardio training it felt like I could go forever...until it abruptly stopped, hence a 1 month cycle this time.

Going to kick that off in mid-March, so I'm excited to see how it plays out because after it ends I'll shift hard into the KLOW + Cartalax for repair.

 

[MsGizmo]

I actually intend to run SLU-PP-332 at the end of the 14 day cycle referenced that involves NAD+, SS-31, and MOTS-C. However, I'm going to pair SLU with 5-Amino-1MQ for the 4 weeks after that 14 weeks. Since SLU operates better with high NAD (anecdotally), I'm going to use my remaining NAD+ from the 14 week cycle and titrate up on 5Amino (which drives NMNT down and NAD up anyhow). The last time I used SLU it was very strong for month 1 and then I felt nothing on month 2, so there seems to be some sort of receptor burnout -- if you do any sort of cardio training it felt like I could go forever...until it abruptly stopped, hence a 1 month cycle this time.

Going to kick that off in mid-March, so I'm excited to see how it plays out because after it ends I'll shift hard into the KLOW + Cartalax for repair.

If we are talking about the same protocol (NAD+, SS-31 and Mots-c) its 14 weeks not 14 days.

 

[cygnus]

If we are talking about the same protocol (NAD+, SS-31 and Mots-c) its 14 weeks not 14 days.

Typo on my part. Fixed.

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

 

[domiboy]

Also curious about researching more NAD stacks. Would love to hear how this goes.

I found great results researching NAD alone; But been interested in either stacking with:

1. the SS-31 - > MOTS-C protocol noted above here
or
2. adding 5-amino-1mq

But not sure which to start first? Anyone have personal experience with either?

 

[MsGizmo]

Typo on my part. Fixed.

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

no problem ... for a bit I was worried someone rewrote it to cram it all into 14 days ... eek.

 

[Frankie_77]

There is a whole thing written about. I intend on trying this one out in a few months.

Just ordered NAD, Mots and SS31 to start this!

 

[wildcat0367]

Good catch! You are 100% right, I did conflate two different lines of research.

My original question should have been about SS-31 and MOTS-c, not SLU-PP-332. I was reading SS-31 -> MOTS-c sequencing discussions and then pivoted to SLU research, which led to the mix-up. Too much NYE Willie Nelson’s rescue remedy!

That said, I am also exploring whether SLU-PP-332 could be incorporated later as a complementary agent, given its characterization as an exercise mimetic and its role in upregulating mitochondrial oxidative capacity (via ERRα/γ signaling). The animal data suggesting increased mitochondrial biogenesis and fatty-acid oxidation is what prompted that line of thinking.

Animal study:

A Synthetic ERR Agonist Alleviates Metabolic Syndrome - PMC

Physical exercise induces physiologic adaptations and is effective at reducing the risk of premature death from all causes. Pharmacological exercise mimetics may be effective in the treatment of a range of diseases including obesity and metabolic ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Conceptually, the framework I am considering is:

• Retatrutide -> fasting-mimetic backdrop (glycemic control, fat loss, lean mass preservation)
• SS-31 -> mitochondrial efficiency / engine repair
• MOTS-c -> improved insulin signaling and fuel routing
• SLU-PP-332 (optional, later) -> increased mitochondrial workload / exercise-like stimulus

I am curious whether others see this sequencing as mechanistically sound, particularly the idea of stabilizing mitochondrial functions and insulin sensitivity before introducing a higher oxidative demand signal.

Thanks for your response! It actually helped me to re-think and refine my question.

Happy new year!

It's a sound plan, I have run them all and am running SS-31 and Mots-c right now and have run out of SLU so have to wait to start it again. All these compounds work extremely well if dosed correctly. I have had great results with 10 mg Mots-c, 10 mg SS-31 and 100 mg SLU 2 X a day.

 

[Chucky]

I run both Mots-c 3.5mg every other day and SLUPP 500mcg every other night with Tesamorelin, then on the days I'm not taking Mots-c I take 500mcg before going to the gym and then 250mcg at night with Tesa. This will sound odd when I say it, but SLUPP and Tesa together seems to help me sleep better.

I've watched the YT video by Josh Holyfield where he explains why you should take SS31 before Mots and it seems to make sense and kind of follows the pdf MisGizmo posted. Then this morning I saw Dr. Bachmeyer posted a video where he literally rips the analogy that Holyfield used when explaining why you should take SS31 before Mots-c but then says you should take Mots before SS31 🤦‍♂️.

 

[Tbagger]

I actually intend to run SLU-PP-332 at the end of the 14 week cycle referenced that involves NAD+, SS-31, and MOTS-C. However, I'm going to pair SLU with 5-Amino-1MQ for the 4 weeks after that 14 weeks. Since SLU operates better with high NAD (anecdotally), I'm going to use my remaining NAD+ from the 14 week cycle and titrate up on 5Amino (which drives NMNT down and NAD up anyhow). The last time I used SLU it was very strong for month 1 and then I felt nothing on month 2, so there seems to be some sort of receptor burnout -- if you do any sort of cardio training it felt like I could go forever...until it abruptly stopped, hence a 1 month cycle this time.

Going to kick that off in mid-March, so I'm excited to see how it plays out because after it ends I'll shift hard into the KLOW + Cartalax for repair.

Great minds lol! I'm doing pretty much the same thing. I have 4 weeks left of Mots-c on the 14 week mitochondrial health protocol. After that I'm going to continue the NAD+ and add in sublingual SLU and subq 5-amino. Combining that with my Reta and Tesa/Ipa, I think I'll have a pretty good body recomp and gym performance stack to follow all that cellular health work. Feels like that's about as good as it can get without switching to AAS's.

I recently ordered some Cartalax to add to my healing/recovery stack as well. Hoping after a couple cycles I can fix up an elbow and shoulder injury that keeps interfering with my gym performance.