My biggest GLP-1 ethical problem: patients who don’t want to stop

I thought I read that 13% dropped out because they lost TOO MUCH weight? Might not have been that particular study. Such a 1st world problem.

Now that you say this, I recall that some of the dropouts in the Retatrutide studies were because the weight loss was “too fast”, not so much “too much” weight loss. But I still think that that was a small number as most stopped because of gastro side effects.

In the Semaglutide clinical studies the dropout rate varied but was generally in the 6-7% range for discontinuation due to adverse effects.

But yes, losing too much weight or losing weight too fast is definitely a 1st world problem. I wouldn’t be on that list for sure 😂
 
The eating disorder issue is a tough one. I'm not sure that the GLP's are causing some eating disorders or are just used as a tool for those who have the disorder.

I don’t believe GLPs cause eating disorders. What they do is act as an impetus: people who already had disordered tendencies (just on the overeating side) may get hooked on the dopamine rush of watching the scale go down. If the emotional and behavioural roots of the initial weight gain are ignored, they’re simply shifting from one form of disordered pattern to another.
 
Do cream cheese and cucumber sandwiches! Yum.

That said, when I was in full weight loss mode on tirz, I ate what I called a Saladrito. The lazy male in me loves the ease of grabbing a fistful of salad mix and plunking it in a tortilla with a little hot sauce and feta cheese sprinkles. Roll it up and eat.
High cholesterol food is not going to improve her health. Healthy proteins would be better.
 
Binge eating disorder / food addiction is by a long way the most common eating disorder, being an issue for a fairly large percentage of obese people. There is a surprising lack of scientific studies of GLP's on this issue, but from what little there is , they are likely to be the most effective treatment available, and they help with obesity which is often the main problem for those with that sort of eating disorder. The only currently approved medical therapy is lisdexamphetamine, which is not very effective. Nearly every bit of research is from a psychology point of view, using cognitive behavioural therapy which is again not very effective for this problem. But given the research is mostly siloed in this area it might take a while for specific studies to be done with GLP's.
 
I don’t believe GLPs cause eating disorders. What they do is act as an impetus: people who already had disordered tendencies (just on the overeating side) may get hooked on the dopamine rush of watching the scale go down. If the emotional and behavioural roots of the initial weight gain are ignored, they’re simply shifting from one form of disordered pattern to another.

While I agree that the glp-1 medications don't "cause" eating disorders, I definitely think that glp-1s can contribute to disordered eating especially for someone already vulnerable. Glp1s can reduce appetite so strongly that many people probably aren't eating enough calories or engage in behaviors around food that are problematic.

Binge eating disorder / food addiction is by a long way the most common eating disorder, being an issue for a fairly large percentage of obese people. There is a surprising lack of scientific studies of GLP's on this issue, but from what little there is , they are likely to be the most effective treatment available, and they help with obesity which is often the main problem for those with that sort of eating disorder. The only currently approved medical therapy is lisdexamphetamine, which is not very effective. Nearly every bit of research is from a psychology point of view, using cognitive behavioural therapy which is again not very effective for this problem. But given the research is mostly siloed in this area it might take a while for specific studies to be done with GLP's.

I'm fascinated with BED. Although I don't suffer with this disorder, I've read lots of posts of individuals with BED using glp-1 medications with good success even though glp-1s aren't FDA approved to treat BED. For most, I think that BED is primarily a psychiatric disorder involving loss of control, emotional triggers, and distress, rather than a metabolic condition. But if I had BED, I'd definitely be on a glp-1 whether I was obese or not.
 
I'm fascinated with BED. Although I don't suffer with this disorder, I've read lots of posts of individuals with BED using glp-1 medications with good success even though glp-1s aren't FDA approved to treat BED. For most, I think that BED is primarily a psychiatric disorder involving loss of control, emotional triggers, and distress, rather than a metabolic condition. But if I had BED, I'd definitely be on a glp-1 whether I was obese or not.

It's me! Hi! I'm the person with a long history of BED that often was better but never was well who Tirzepatide stopped cold and who has not had a binging episode or even had to struggle against a binging episode since, it's me.

Therapy didn't help. OA helped a very little. Nothing that didn't take every bit of concentration I had every day helped. Except the magic skinny shots, THEY fixed it and I'm all better now.
 
A lot of my thinking on this issue is from my own experience. I do believe that at least in people with severe obesity the normal appetite regulation systems are really pretty broken.
I managed to get to 145kg and in some ways thankfully was stuck in a shitty situation, my business had died from covid, I had to sell my house, and was stuck living at my alcoholic ex's house for want of a better option. Classic lowest point to make real changes in your life.
So I used what I knew and started a diet, eating only low fat low glycaemic index generally low carb high protein low calorific density diet. The aim was to avoid spikes and dips in blood sugar or whatever regulating chemicals control appetite. At that point I believed glp's were impossibly expensive. And it worked, yes I was hungry all the time but not uncontrollably, and I got to 75kg in a bit less than a year. Importantly there had to be absolute zero high calorie high glycaemic index highly rewarding foods. In the past even small amounts of these foods had triggered uncontrollable extreme hunger that is much much more extreme after major weight loss. I think there is some pretty odd brain chemistry and physiology going on when this happens.
If binge eating disorder was primarily psychological, why would controlling the types of food I ate work so well to control it?

I kept the weight off for a year, still hungry a lot of the time but never uncontrollably , and finally realised glp's were an option. And they have made it much easier to keep the weight off , much less food required to feel full, less hunger overall and a lot less cravings for not allowed foods. But still sticking to absolute avoidance of certain foods.
 
I don’t believe GLPs cause eating disorders. What they do is act as an impetus: people who already had disordered tendencies (just on the overeating side) may get hooked on the dopamine rush of watching the scale go down. If the emotional and behavioural roots of the initial weight gain are ignored, they’re simply shifting from one form of disordered pattern to another.
One of the influencers on reta is somewhat mainstream now. I mostly know about reta from this forum, and maybe a little bit of reddit, but even my brother knows about the dude that uses meth for a better jawline.

Don’t know if that counts as an ED, or as orthorexia, but that’s definitely something.
 
A lot of my thinking on this issue is from my own experience. I do believe that at least in people with severe obesity the normal appetite regulation systems are really pretty broken.
I managed to get to 145kg and in some ways thankfully was stuck in a shitty situation, my business had died from covid, I had to sell my house, and was stuck living at my alcoholic ex's house for want of a better option. Classic lowest point to make real changes in your life.
So I used what I knew and started a diet, eating only low fat low glycaemic index generally low carb high protein low calorific density diet. The aim was to avoid spikes and dips in blood sugar or whatever regulating chemicals control appetite. At that point I believed glp's were impossibly expensive. And it worked, yes I was hungry all the time but not uncontrollably, and I got to 75kg in a bit less than a year. Importantly there had to be absolute zero high calorie high glycaemic index highly rewarding foods. In the past even small amounts of these foods had triggered uncontrollable extreme hunger that is much much more extreme after major weight loss. I think there is some pretty odd brain chemistry and physiology going on when this happens.
If binge eating disorder was primarily psychological, why would controlling the types of food I ate work so well to control it?

I kept the weight off for a year, still hungry a lot of the time but never uncontrollably , and finally realised glp's were an option. And they have made it much easier to keep the weight off , much less food required to feel full, less hunger overall and a lot less cravings for not allowed foods. But still sticking to absolute avoidance of certain foods.
Sounds somewhat similar to what I did after being diagnosed with diabetes to lose a bunch of weight and get it under control. In my case it wasn't low-fat, but we've all got our different opinions on what constitutes a "good" diet and I find it silly to argue over which dietary paradigm is the very best, other than to note that just about every single one is going to beat the Standard American (or in your case Australian) Diet.

I really do think that for a lot of people BED comes down to how well the most convenient food options in our environment have been engineered for their addictive potential. It's not so much that a person "has" it as that some people have better default defenses against that addiction potential than others and those with weak natural defenses will have to develop tricks to overcome it. In your example, you discovered that by changing what you were eating you greatly reduced the desire to binge, perhaps by choosing foods with less addiction potential. Even thought you were often hungry, that hunger wasn't enough to maintain the addiction, providing strong evidence that BED and being hungry can (at least for you) be two different things. And that kind of makes sense because the very nature of binging (eating way more food than required to make you full) keeps you eating until you feel like you're going to explode. If BED was just strong hunger, presumably the binges would catch you up to full rather than extreme overeating, and that's obviously not what it happening there.
 
Last edited:
One of the influencers on reta is somewhat mainstream now. I mostly know about reta from this forum, and maybe a little bit of reddit, but even my brother knows about the dude that uses meth for a better jawline.

Don’t know if that counts as an ED, or as orthorexia, but that’s definitely something.
that would be clavicular. Supposedly he broke his jaw to get that jawline. They say meth, but I believe he uses adderall. He got popped/arrested a couple weeks back with a fake id and adderall w/o prescription
 
I always get the most pushback when I tell people "changing your lifestyle" is also the main goal. No one wants to put in the hard work of diet and exercise. With those, you will get the real benefits!
 
I always get the most pushback when I tell people "changing your lifestyle" is also the main goal.
For good reason? GLPs help with the biological signals (crazy hunger or food noise) that can even make it hard to think. Hard to make permanent lifestyle changes when your body is in an alarmed/altered state. And everyone on GLPs has dieted and exercised before. I don't see GLPs as just a tool. But rather as a necessary, lifelong medication.

Yes, a healthier diet will help, as will exercise, and those things can help with bloodwork (as do GLPs), blood pressure (as do GLPs), and having a lower maintenance dose. And, of course, resistance training will help prevent losing muscle:

Gemini said:
FactorBenefitNote
Zone 2 CardioMitochondrial biogenesis & fat oxidation45–60 mins at "conversational" pace to trigger PGC-1α and maximize fuel efficiency.
Resistance TrainingPreserves Lean Body Mass (LBM)Prevents "skinny fat" outcome during rapid weight loss; aim for 2–3 sessions per week.
Plant-Based DietCardiovascular & Gut HealthHigh fiber and low saturated fat; essential for managing LDL and endothelial function.
GLP-1sAppetite control & BP regulationActs as the "metabolic bridge" to make intensive lifestyle changes sustainable.
MaintenanceSustainability & SafetyTitrating to the lowest effective dose reduces side effects like gastric slowing.
 
Last edited:
I don't see GLPs as just a tool. But rather as a necessary, lifelong medication.

The medical community increasingly recognizes obesity as a chronic medical condition, not a personal failing. Society is still catching up.

In my case, GLP-1 therapy addresses an underlying metabolic dysfunction. If I discontinue treatment, I would expect to return to my prior baseline. But I’ve lived with obesity my entire life and have struggled with it for decades. While others with less metabolic dysregulation may be able to maintain results without medication, I know that for me, long-term therapy is necessary.
 
I know exactly how hard it is to maintain massive weight loss without GLP's. I got down to 65kg in 2013 from 120 or 130 kg and stayed there for 2 years. But eventually I just could not stick to eating the types of foods that I needed to eat and the usual just one serve of ice cream won't hurt logic and where that ends up for me at least.
And I did it again in 2022 - 2023 from 145 to 75kg and kept it off for a year.
After starting semaglutide , I think for the first time in my life I experienced being too full to finish eating what I had put on my plate. I put up with feeling nauseous and a bit ill for a year in exchange for being less hungry then thankfully discovered cheaper Chinese options with both better appetite suppression and less side effects.
Much to my surprise I am still very slowly losing weight 100-200g per week, without constant conscious effort to eat less than I want. At 66kg and bmi of 24, I am not entirely sure where to stop. I will eventually reach a point on current doses where weight loss stops or I will just have to pick a weight and drop doses of reta and tirz a little, or drop some of the other peptides I have added in for additional possible effects on appetite/weight - Adamax for alpha MSH, low dose HGH, oxytocin, and mots-c. Despite the underlying receptor effects being reasonably well understood, I have no real idea how effective any of these actually are, given that none have ever been studied in humans for weight loss, will have to stop them at some point and see what happens to weight or hunger. No intention of ever stopping Tirzepatide or Reta.
 
For good reason? GLPs help with the biological signals (crazy hunger or food noise) that can even make it hard to think. Hard to make permanent lifestyle changes when your body is in an alarmed/altered state. And everyone on GLPs has dieted and exercised before. I don't see GLPs as just a tool. But rather as a necessary, lifelong medication.

Hear hear. I don't argue with people who spout "you have to change your lifestyle!" because I don't argue online unless I'm being paid money for it, and I don't argue in regular life because there are so many people who would like to talk to me that I could never make enough time or energy to talk as much with all of them as I'd like to, so I have to save my talking-with for people who aren't parroting stuff that's oversimplified and dull.

But yeah, Patricia, of course I have to "change my lifestyle" to lose weight and keep it off. But that's not a button you push once, or once a month, and say "YAY, LIFESTYLE CHANGED" and then move on. That's a constant upkeep that sounds super inspirational when you say it like that but actually means "eat less food than I badly want, all day, every day, forever, while ignoring my deep desire to eat the amount of food that I badly want" because we all know you can't outrun your fork. So ok, Patricia, these meds allow me to "change my lifestyle" and we're all happy, what are you babbling about?

(that said, hooray for those unicorns who are able to use these meds to jump start and then remain in the habit once they've lived in it long enough. That isn't me and I don't believe it ever will be, but good on you if it IS you.)
 
Last edited:
Almost everyone on this forum has lost weight at some point in the past without GLP's. It is not super hard, you just have to decide to stick to a diet and stick to it and nearly everyone can do that for a while.
The problem with the "change you lifestyle" solution is not that it cannot work, but that it takes constant mental effort. Realistically if you were able to maintain that lifestyle/diet without a lot of constant mental work, you would not be obese. And eventually almost everyones' ability to put that effort in slowly wears away . If you succeed in establishing new habits that don't require that constant effort then you have solved the problem, but the reality of the research and most people's experiences says this is so hard that very few succeed. If your appetite regulation system cannot cope with constant cheap available high calorie highly rewarding food that it never evolved to deal with, then the only way not to eat too much is with constant effort and eventually that runs out.
Thankfully GLP's do not require constant effort for them to work, just injecting a medication once a week or so. Which bypasses that whole problem, and actually makes making and keeping to real meaningful long term lifestyle changes much easier and more likely. Simple example it is so much easier to exercise when not morbidly obese. So stopping them once at a goal weight actually puts those beneficial lifestyle changes as well as the weight loss at risk. I am not saying no one should ever try stopping them, but in severe longstanding obesity, I think it is a bad idea.
 
One bit of nuance that I feel is being missed here is that it's assumed that while all diets will require some degree of restriction, not all diets require fighting against hunger.

The standard "low calorie" approach is probably the most miserable and guaranteed to fail (in all but rare circumstances). That's because if you just keep eating the same highly palatable and addictive slop that you have been eating, only limiting yourself to 30% less per day until you relent. For those who only got as far as this approach then one can be forgiven for believing that the concept of dieting is completely unworkable.

Slightly less miserable is the world of low-fat diets, which usually include a stronger focus on things that resemble plants and less highly-refined grains. There's an initial hump to overcome some of the withdrawal-like qualities of giving up your favorite processed foods. You can feel full on a diet like this while losing weight, although satiety may remain elusive. And you won't feel hungry, just a sense of missing certain other foods and the feelings associated with them.

Less miserable than that (although many will disagree) are all of the different categories of low-carb diets, with some focusing towards being more or less meat-based, others focused towards plants and/or dairy, and some focusing more towards high-fat. I personally found these to be the easiest to to lose and maintain weight loss with, but man did I miss potatoes!

Then there were fasting tweaks one could add to these diets too, which probably sounds insane to those who haven't tried it (isn't that the definition of hunger, after all), which could be time restricted eating or regular days off from eating.

Every single one of these required giving something up, but many avoided the problem of continual hunger.
 
I do not disagree at all with the concept of trying to find a way of eating that controls hunger and allows you to eat enough food that you are not constantly restricting how much food you eat, mainly as that is just hard and usually fails eventually.

Ketogenic or low carb or even the ancient Atkins diet I remember trying a long time ago, has the advantage that the ketones suppress appetite and the lack of fluctuations in blood sugar, insulin and several dozen other appetite regulating hormones and neurotransmitters make it easier to stick to and prevent severe spikes in hunger that make loss of self control much more likely. I think in some respects Atkins got some of his thinking right even if it is nowhere near as simple as he thought. It is interesting that recently continuous glucose monitors often show spikes in sugar from high calorie foods followed by dips that then cause increased hunger, pretty much what Atkins thought was happening 40 years ago.

The hard part is that a high fat diet is a more likely to be high caloric density diet , which means small amounts of food, which does not help the hunger issue. Also the science on ketogenic diets seems to have changed many times over the past few decades as to whether they are healthy or not. But usually lack enough fiber and plant based foods.

The diet with by far the best science behind it in terms of preventing disease is the mediterranean diet, or variations on that theme.

My personal theory for obesity is sort of simple , low calorific density, less than 1.5 kcal/g is the main thing so you can eat as much as you want or need to eat to not be hungry, and if you can include a good percentage of protein in it then even better. Nearly all processed foods are too high in calorific density and it excludes nearly all high carb foods like bread and grain products, but does allow pretty much unlimited fruit and vegetables, even if they are mostly carbs or sugar it is bound up in cellular structures and fiber so is absorbed much more slowly than from foods like bread or biscuits. And it allows you to snack all day long on fruit, maybe not bananas, but a kilo of fruit is only 500 kcal or less usually and quite a lot to eat over a day. Very lean meat works and is the most effective suppressant of appetite per calorie.

It is hard to fit fat into this, even fairly small amounts automatically drastically increase the calories per gram. And the number of extra calories from small amounts of added fats can be large, 55 grams of oil having similar calories to a kilo of fruit. If that was all I could eat for a day I would be picking the fruit over the oil. A super low fat diet is not necessarily unhealthy but should ideally have some fish and olive oil in it. Given that I seem to have to maintain an intake that is less than an average 66kg 58yo male to maintain weight of 1600-1800 kcal/day, due to metabolic adaptation to long term calorie restriction, I don't have a lot of room to move to add calories in. There are quite a lot of studies supporting ideas in this way of eating, but it is nowhere near the standard viewpoint.

One of the problems is that I have found is that I need to be very careful about eating anything that might upset this system. Eating small amounts of rich food is going to mess up your preferences, so that lower calorie foods no longer taste as good, and risks those spikes in hunger that are difficult to control.
 
Every single one of these required giving something up, but many avoided the problem of continual hunger.

That's how I think about it. If the standard/bad American diet is meat and potatoes, then some diets will restrict the meat (and other animal proteins) and some will restrict the potatoes (and bread and rice). The middle path is the Mediterranean diet, favored by the American Heart Association:

Gemini said:
Diet PatternAHA Score / TierWhy it Earned This Rating
Mediterranean89 / Tier 1The Middle Path: High alignment with AHA goals. It lost a few points only because it doesn't explicitly limit salt and allows for moderate alcohol.
Plant-Based (Vegan)78 / Tier 2Restricts the Meat: Excellent for fiber and low saturated fat, but Tier 2 because its restrictiveness can make it hard to follow long-term and may lead to B12 deficiency.
Very Low-Fat (McDougall/Pritikin)72 / Tier 3Restricts the Meat & Fats: While it lowers LDL, the AHA docked points because it excludes healthy fats (nuts/olive oil) and can be too restrictive for the general public.
Paleo53 / Tier 4Restricts the Potatoes: Failed because it excludes legumes and whole grains (fiber/nutrients) and does not limit saturated fats from meat.
Keto (Very Low Carb)31 / Tier 4Total War on Potatoes: The lowest rating. The AHA cites the extreme restriction of fruits and grains, which leads to low fiber and high saturated fat intake.

And, of course: "Two people can eat the same food and have very different hormonal responses."
 
Last edited:
I do not disagree at all with the concept of trying to find a way of eating that controls hunger and allows you to eat enough food that you are not constantly restricting how much food you eat, mainly as that is just hard and usually fails eventually.

Ketogenic or low carb or even the ancient Atkins diet I remember trying a long time ago, has the advantage that the ketones suppress appetite and the lack of fluctuations in blood sugar, insulin and several dozen other appetite regulating hormones and neurotransmitters make it easier to stick to and prevent severe spikes in hunger that make loss of self control much more likely. I think in some respects Atkins got some of his thinking right even if it is nowhere near as simple as he thought. It is interesting that recently continuous glucose monitors often show spikes in sugar from high calorie foods followed by dips that then cause increased hunger, pretty much what Atkins thought was happening 40 years ago.

The hard part is that a high fat diet is a more likely to be high caloric density diet , which means small amounts of food, which does not help the hunger issue. Also the science on ketogenic diets seems to have changed many times over the past few decades as to whether they are healthy or not. But usually lack enough fiber and plant based foods.

The diet with by far the best science behind it in terms of preventing disease is the mediterranean diet, or variations on that theme.

My personal theory for obesity is sort of simple , low calorific density, less than 1.5 kcal/g is the main thing so you can eat as much as you want or need to eat to not be hungry, and if you can include a good percentage of protein in it then even better. Nearly all processed foods are too high in calorific density and it excludes nearly all high carb foods like bread and grain products, but does allow pretty much unlimited fruit and vegetables, even if they are mostly carbs or sugar it is bound up in cellular structures and fiber so is absorbed much more slowly than from foods like bread or biscuits. And it allows you to snack all day long on fruit, maybe not bananas, but a kilo of fruit is only 500 kcal or less usually and quite a lot to eat over a day. Very lean meat works and is the most effective suppressant of appetite per calorie.

It is hard to fit fat into this, even fairly small amounts automatically drastically increase the calories per gram. And the number of extra calories from small amounts of added fats can be large, 55 grams of oil having similar calories to a kilo of fruit. If that was all I could eat for a day I would be picking the fruit over the oil. A super low fat diet is not necessarily unhealthy but should ideally have some fish and olive oil in it. Given that I seem to have to maintain an intake that is less than an average 66kg 58yo male to maintain weight of 1600-1800 kcal/day, due to metabolic adaptation to long term calorie restriction, I don't have a lot of room to move to add calories in. There are quite a lot of studies supporting ideas in this way of eating, but it is nowhere near the standard viewpoint.

One of the problems is that I have found is that I need to be very careful about eating anything that might upset this system. Eating small amounts of rich food is going to mess up your preferences, so that lower calorie foods no longer taste as good, and risks those spikes in hunger that are difficult to control.
I love that you took the time to write that out and so much of that is really good and insightful information. Most of that I completely agree with or only disagree with in minor ways (like I might have a different cut-off on good "fruits" and we'd both be just as correct, since it's more of an opinion thing). I especially liked that you properly contextualized fruits and vegetables in-tact cellular matrix rather than just saying "fiber," which too many fail to properly appreciate.

A couple points I might challenge you on:

Although it might be counter-intuitive, I'd lump both the low-calorie density schemes and most versions of the "Mediterranean" diet (which has a somewhat elusive definition) under the same umbrella as "low-fat" diets. I know this sounds wrong because neither of those are inherently low-fat diets and perhaps that's my fault for dubbing the category that. I just mean that the experience a person goes through on either of those diets tends to mirror the low-fat experience where you might feel stuffed, but are generally less likely to feel satisfied. For me that was the reason I generally preferred the low-carb umbrella, since it would offer me an opportunity to feel satiety.

In the low-carb/keto world, I think part of properly appreciating that is throwing away the calorie concept and focusing more on avoiding "really good" foods that have more addiction-potential, if you will, while prioritizing foods that don't hijack your built-in hunger signaling. Obviously CICO is valid post facto, but you're going to lose the entire benefit of those diets if you're trying to engineer them to be low-calorie. As you noted previously, intentional low-calorie is generally going to be at odds with self-control, so to the extent you've rigged up a low-calorie version of Atkins, you're kind of throwing away the entire benefit of Atkin's: It's a diet where you can just eat until you're full (as long as you're selective about the foods you eat and stay within those bounds). It might not get you down to a 6-pack of abs before plateauing, but for most will get them to a better weight than they're currently at. Also, fun trivia fact for you. 100 years before Atkin's popularized his diet, a fellow by the name of William Banting popularized a rather similar diet that was dubbed the Banting diet at the time.

I'd also agree with you that the theories behind various low-carb concepts keep changing and will probably continue to keep changing. A very unique formulation of that concept, which isn't very popular, but I think is an interesting proof of concept is the ex150 diet. The guy is a blogger who likes to experiment with different diets and write about them. I wouldn't call him an expert, but he's very determined and also very diligent in recording very detailed data in what he does. The reason I think you might find it interesting is that the his main/default diet that he eats day to day is heavy cream (in addition to some beef and a small amount of vegetables). He eats it to satiety every day and has lost significant weight on it, after failing to find sustained success with other ketogenic diets. I don't find myself agreeing with a fair amount of his personal analysis, but that's not why I follow him. I just find his results to be very interesting.
 
For good reason? GLPs help with the biological signals (crazy hunger or food noise) that can even make it hard to think. Hard to make permanent lifestyle changes when your body is in an alarmed/altered state. And everyone on GLPs has dieted and exercised before. I don't see GLPs as just a tool. But rather as a necessary, lifelong medication.

Yes, a healthier diet will help, as will exercise, and those things can help with bloodwork (as do GLPs), blood pressure (as do GLPs), and having a lower maintenance dose. And, of course, resistance training will help prevent losing muscle:
Agree. I think the pushback I was getting is that some think it's the "magic" pill, and won't get off the couch, death scrolling
 
Almost everyone on this forum has lost weight at some point in the past without GLP's. It is not super hard, you just have to decide to stick to a diet and stick to it and nearly everyone can do that for a while.
The problem with the "change you lifestyle" solution is not that it cannot work, but that it takes constant mental effort. Realistically if you were able to maintain that lifestyle/diet without a lot of constant mental work, you would not be obese. And eventually almost everyones' ability to put that effort in slowly wears away . If you succeed in establishing new habits that don't require that constant effort then you have solved the problem, but the reality of the research and most people's experiences says this is so hard that very few succeed. If your appetite regulation system cannot cope with constant cheap available high calorie highly rewarding food that it never evolved to deal with, then the only way not to eat too much is with constant effort and eventually that runs out.
Thankfully GLP's do not require constant effort for them to work, just injecting a medication once a week or so. Which bypasses that whole problem, and actually makes making and keeping to real meaningful long term lifestyle changes much easier and more likely. Simple example it is so much easier to exercise when not morbidly obese. So stopping them once at a goal weight actually puts those beneficial lifestyle changes as well as the weight loss at risk. I am not saying no one should ever try stopping them, but in severe longstanding obesity, I think it is a bad idea.
People vastly underestimate the mental effort it takes to maintain large weight loss. Your post reminds of something a fitness bro type influencer said on a random live I caught on TikTok a few months ago that has stuck with me. His audience was trying to get him to hate on people on GLP1's, and he said honestly IDGAF and good for them. He went on to say, yes people can white knuckle and use every ounce of mental effort they have to loose weight, but then they can't live the rest of their life. Using a GLP1 allows these people to live their lives and fix their bodies. It suck with me for being correct and because he was not someone who I thought would understand that.
 
It's me! Hi! I'm the person with a long history of BED that often was better but never was well who Tirzepatide stopped cold and who has not had a binging episode or even had to struggle against a binging episode since, it's me.

Therapy didn't help. OA helped a very little. Nothing that didn't take every bit of concentration I had every day helped. Except the magic skinny shots, THEY fixed it and I'm all better now.
Right here with you! Me too! Not a single late night chocolate binge.
 
I understand your argument and your perspective. Interestingly, I do not read the article as paternalistic. Rather, it reads to me like a physician mindful of the Hippocratic Oath to which physicians are ethically bound. I read a struggle between supporting or even encouraging this class of medications and the array of outcomes for incredible success rates. Body dysmorphia is real. Disordered eating is real.

People for whom a life free of obesity was complete fantasy are now undergoing physical metamorphoses in previously unimaginable ways. It isn't a far reach from discovering a good thing to overusing that good thing.

I don't know this physician so I don't know his agenda, his bedside manner, or his philosophy. I do know it is very possible for them to be genuinely concerned about what their patients may be facing and to want to figure out how to continue supporting their good health as an ethical medical professional.

There is a LOT more I want to say but it quickly becomes too revealing in a place I prefer to be unknown rather than discoverable. No, I am not a physician.
Exactly. Read it the same way. Seems genuinely concerned for his patients.
 

Trending Topics

Forum Statistics

Threads
18,477
Posts
192,261
Members
61,774
Newest
xfighter7
Back
Top Bottom