Newbie, but not totally new.

Lifeworthliving

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Middle aged female, 44 yrs old. I lost 80lbs (life changing) on Tirz/Zepbound, insurance is dropping coverage in July, so I'm trying to come up with a plan, I'm currently on 12.5mg Zepbound (spring loaded pen). I'm instrested in Retatrutide for the remaining 50lbs. This world is totally new to me, I'm learning about group testing (need to figure out how to get in on a pre-order of that), which labs you want to see results from, what the heck filtering is (does everyone do this???), and what kind of switching over dosing I should be looking at.

Seems like folks are willing to share their knowledge, but it took me all evening to figure out Telegram, so lord help me. Any words of wisdom or discussion thread recommendations are most welcomed.
 
Welcome 🙂

If it's available in your state, you can always buy time by getting compounded tirz from Brello Health for $499, which would pay for up to 15 mg/week for three months (180 mg total).

Regarding filtering, most do not, arguing that the process introduces contamination as well. But I believe that argument is overstated (especially since you can buy individually-wrapped sterile products, improve your sterility techniques, such as by using 70% rubbing alcohol on surfaces, including on your gloves, and use a HEPA air filter). And filtering is not only for bacteria but for "molds, fungi, particulates, and other suspended solids" (Google Gemini).

But if time is not on your side, I would not worry about it too much. Since it is a subq injection, the non-filtering crowd is correct that their body's defenses are enough to keep them alive and out of the hospital, though they may have a greater incidence of injection-site reactions and other immune responses, which can occur even from sterile particulate matter.
 
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I've been stretching out shots (adding 1 day to each shot, and refilling right at 21 days) while its been covered, I've got 6 weeks of shots stockpiled, and I have one more refill this month, so while July is the insurance cut off, I've got some padding.

I'm looking for fat loss/weight loss, hence if I'm changing why I'm interested in Retatrutide. Do most folks do a pre-buy and group test? Or after watching some orders and tests, just buy on faith and reputation?

This is a whole new world for me, lots to learn. I think the variables in vial amount scares me a bit, but the idea of miro-dosing or twice a week is sure appealing. Less highs, less lows.
 
I have bounced around the idea of filtering my peptides. So far, I do not filter, and never had a problem. This is what I do and just my opinion. Welcome to the forum 👋
 
Do most folks do a pre-buy and group test? Or after watching some orders and tests, just buy on faith and reputation?
No. Yes.

and what kind of switching over dosing I should be looking at.
This was discussed recently in two separate threads, though they were also using cagri.

Since you are now dealing with three agonists with reta, the conservative or medically correct thing to do would be to start basically from scratch. It seems the newest trial may have a higher starting dose.

In any case, even coming from a high dose of tirz, I would probably start with something like 2 mg per week:

Yes! I went from 2, 4, 6, 9 and ended on 12. I'm sure my doctor wasn't supposed to tell me whether I ended on the 9mg or 12mg, but they could tell because it was a different bin than the 9mg. I started at 206 and weighed 132 when I had to be dosed down since I hit 22% BMI. I was trying so hard not to lose weight at the end but that high of a dose made me keep losing.

But, coming from tirz, I would possibly raise the dose each week in the beginning (rather than every 4 weeks), until I had a side effect or started to lose at least a pound/week.
 
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It's hard to believe any China-based vendor about what they have in stock at their US warehouse, but, if I wanted reta sooner than later on a budget, I would consider SRY since they don't charge for shipping one kit:


I had no problems in the past with SRY's US Warehouse or Nexaph. But I have a love-hate relationship with both vendors, mostly from reading recent instances of foreign matter in some vials (which is my biggest pet peeve for some reason, even though I filter anyway).

I also have GYC and WBS on my radar for US warehouse orders, but they all have greater minimum order requirements than SRY.

Update: SSA's US warehouse seems out-of-stock too quickly with reta, and their prices seem higher than the others.
 
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Congrats on finding the place. The normal learning curve is just getting ripped off by buying from a single vial seller. Then you find the popular place that sells kits and takes CC and is popular enough to have many testing groups. You then find out that if you want the real good prices you will need to spend the hour to learn to pay with bitcoin and buy from China vendors.

You pay extra for convenience and lack of knowledge.

Hopefully by this time you have learned that no vendor is 100% trustworthy. They all have problems and seem to go through bad patches. If you search you will find bad vials have been sold from all them.

Get discord setup on your phone and just start reading. When you see an invite link go ahead and click it. It's like playing cards, collect them all. You will stumple across group buys and vendors run promo sales. You will then get with people that bought the same batch as you and contribute to a group test.

Remember to collect all the invites you see posted. Check the vendor lists for their telegram and discord invites. You will learn quicker than you think.
 
No. Yes.


This was discussed recently in two separate threads, though they were also using cagri.

Since you are now dealing with three agonists with reta, the conservative or medically correct thing to do would be to start basically from scratch. It seems the newest trial may have a higher starting dose.

In any case, even coming from a high dose of tirz, I would probably start with something like 2 mg per week:



But, coming from tirz, I would possibly raise the dose each week in the beginning (rather than every 4 weeks), until I had a side effect or started to lose at least a pound/week.
I've been reading every spare moment. Based on everything, I think I will start cold turkey and titrate every few weeks until I get to a point of discomfort. Also looking at a half-dose twice a week model.
 
It's hard to believe any China-based vendor about what they have in stock at their US warehouse, but, if I wanted reta sooner than later on a budget, I would consider SRY since they don't charge for shipping one kit:


I had no problems in the past with SRY's US Warehouse or Nexaph. But I have a love-hate relationship with both vendors, mostly from reading recent instances of foreign matter in some vials (which is my biggest pet peeve for some reason, even though I filter anyway). I also have SSA, GYC, and WBS on my radar for US warehouse orders, but they all have greater minimum order requirements than SRY.
I've found myself in the SRY telegram. I think I may take the plunge and buy the 6mg/10 vial kit, see how it goes, and see if I learn an expensive lesson.

Do you have any recommendations for needle vendors or kits, that also sell Bac Water, someone who sells everything needed to reconstitute? I've seen people speak about liking 18G for reconstituting, then 30g for injection.
 
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Congrats on finding the place. The normal learning curve is just getting ripped off by buying from a single vial seller. Then you find the popular place that sells kits and takes CC and is popular enough to have many testing groups. You then find out that if you want the real good prices you will need to spend the hour to learn to pay with bitcoin and buy from China vendors.

You pay extra for convenience and lack of knowledge.

Hopefully by this time you have learned that no vendor is 100% trustworthy. They all have problems and seem to go through bad patches. If you search you will find bad vials have been sold from all them.

Get discord setup on your phone and just start reading. When you see an invite link go ahead and click it. It's like playing cards, collect them all. You will stumple across group buys and vendors run promo sales. You will then get with people that bought the same batch as you and contribute to a group test.

Remember to collect all the invites you see posted. Check the vendor lists for their telegram and discord invites. You will learn quicker than you think.
lol, seems like a rite of passage to get ripped off. Trying to avoid it, looking at SRY 10 vial kits. I'm not looking for rock bottom, just better than $550 a month, which is what my out-of-pocket would be on Zepbound. $300 for 12-15 weeks is just fine by me.

I have struggled with Discord, navigating around, I've found Telegram to be easier to understand. I'll keep a lookout for invites.
 
I just got an e-mail reply from SRY, their US warehouse is out of stock on reta, at least the R20 that I inquired about. On SSA's Discord, the advice I got from others was to just order directly from China.

Nexaph is still taking pre-orders for reta at $400 for R24. But that is a major investment considering some people stop taking reta due to elevated heart rate (though taking a beta blocker from an Indian pharmacy could help).

For the recon supplies, I bought a kit from Peptide Test, which includes filtering supplies. For just doing recon, Underground Supply's starter kit looks great.
 
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I just got an e-mail reply from SRY, their US warehouse is out of stock on reta, at least the R20 that I inquired about. On SSA's Discord, the advice I got from others was to just order directly from China.

For the recon supplies, I bought a kit from Peptide Test, which includes filtering supplies. For just doing recon, Underground Supply looks great.
Just for a time scale, I ordered tirz from SSA China on May 27 night. Tracking says it will be delivered to me tomorrow. Not bad at all to my way of thinking. I didn't get hit with a tariff that I know of but your milage may very. T60 was $225 plus 40 shipped.
 
That's good about SSA. I'm surprised they only charged $40 for FedEx shipping. I thought it was much higher than that.

Or I may just go with WBS, direct from China as well. There are not as many third-party tests for them, but they are trending well (for now).
 
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I am trying now to order R30 from SRY's US Warehouse. They just posted to the vendor section that the R20 promo is over, so I guess the R30 for $280 is still a go.
 
I've been reading every spare moment. Based on everything, I think I will start cold turkey and titrate every few weeks until I get to a point of discomfort. Also looking at a half-dose twice a week model.
Reta has a half-life of six days, which is one day longer than tirz. With tirz, I think people are more likely to do every five days than twice a week.

So twice a week with reta seems a little odd to me, at least since with tirz my worst GI side effects were usually closer to the end of the week. OTOH, my instructions from Brello Health for tirz said just make sure you don't take two doses within 48 hours.
 
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For most meds you want to redose in the peak if you want to maintain the actual dosage. So if you dose 2x a week you never hit the low end.

New to peptides but been on hrt for years and it has about the same half life as tirz. So I dose both every 3.5 days and keep the levels up.

Smaller doses, less side effects, less variable effectiveness.
 
Google Gemini was having conniptions when I asked about 5-day dosing for tirz. So for twice-a-week dosing for tirz or reta, it is just as unhappy: "Twice-weekly dosing would likely be detrimental due to increased side effects without significant additional efficacy."

By asking it again, I was able to get a more favorable response, but it was still not really buying it:

You're proposing a scenario where the total weekly dose is divided into two smaller, twice-weekly injections. For example, instead of 6mg once weekly, you might do 3mg twice weekly. This is an interesting thought that aims to potentially smooth out peaks and troughs, and reduce side effects.

Here's an evaluation of that approach for retatrutide and tirzepatide:

Potential Benefits of Lower-than-Equivalent Dosing Twice a Week (Theoretical):

  1. Smoother Pharmacokinetic Profile:
    • By administering the drug more frequently, even if the total weekly dose is the same, you would theoretically have less pronounced peaks and troughs. The drug concentration would fluctuate less dramatically throughout the week.

    • This could lead to a slightly more consistent level of receptor activation.
  2. Reduced Peak Side Effects (Potentially):
    • The highest concentrations (peaks) after each injection would be lower than the peak from a single larger weekly injection.

    • Since gastrointestinal side effects are often linked to rapid increases in drug concentration and high peak levels, this might theoretically reduce the intensity of those side effects for some individuals.
Why This Is NOT the Standard or Recommended Practice for Reta/Tirz (and why it's generally not done in trials):

  1. The Half-Life Already Supports Weekly Dosing:
    • The fundamental reason these drugs are once-weekly is their long half-lives (5-6 days).1 This pharmacokinetic property already ensures a relatively stable concentration over the week, minimizing the need for more frequent dosing to maintain efficacy.

    • The drug levels don't drop off precipitously, so the "trough" at the end of a week is still well within the therapeutic range.
  2. Increased Burden and Cost:
    • Two injections a week instead of one doubles the number of injections, increasing patient burden, potential for injection site reactions, and the need for more supplies (pens, needles).

    • From a manufacturing and cost perspective, this often doubles the number of dispensed units, which would significantly increase the cost to the healthcare system and patients.
  3. Clinical Trial Validation:
    • Drug development involves extensive testing of dosing regimens to find the most efficacious and safe schedule.3 For tirzepatide (approved) and retatrutide (in advanced trials), the once-weekly schedule has been rigorously validated.

    • If twice-weekly dosing offered a significant, practical advantage (like vastly improved tolerability that led to higher average doses and better outcomes), it would have been a primary focus of development. The fact that it hasn't indicates that the once-weekly approach is superior or at least equivalent in its balance of efficacy, safety, and convenience.
  4. Managing Side Effects with Titration:
    • The current strategy for managing side effects (slow, gradual dose titration once weekly) is already effective for most patients.4 It allows the body to adapt to the medication's effects over time.

    • For the few individuals who experience severe side effects even with slow titration, a temporary dose reduction or pausing therapy is usually recommended, rather than switching to a more frequent, lower-dose schedule.
  5. Complexity and Adherence:
    • Introducing a more complex dosing schedule (e.g., "take X mg on Monday and Y mg on Thursday") could lead to confusion, increased risk of missed doses, or incorrect dosing.
Conclusion:

While the pharmacokinetic theory of smoothing out peaks and troughs with more frequent, lower doses is sound for some drugs, for medications like retatrutide and tirzepatide, it's generally not considered a beneficial or necessary strategy.

Their long half-lives make once-weekly dosing highly effective and convenient. The primary hurdle during titration is tolerability to the drug's effects, which is best managed by the slow, gradual dose escalation of the once-weekly regimen, rather than increasing dosing frequency. The added burden and cost would likely outweigh any marginal theoretical benefit.

Google Gemini said:
Once steady state is reached (after about 4-5 half-lives), the amount of drug entering the body with each dose is balanced by the amount being eliminated. The goal is to keep the average concentration within the therapeutic range, and the fluctuations (peak to trough) are already minimized by the long half-life and weekly dosing.

Regarding efficacy, when I asked my doc about the about 5-day dosing for tirz, he just said to raise the weekly dose. As he said, the "cheat" is to raise the dose as often as weekly rather than monthly (which is what he already wrote on my prescription -- to raise the dose for tirz 2.5 mg weekly, as needed). My doctor is a board-certified internist who has had thousands of patients on tirz, including himself. But he is unusual (in a bad way possibly), including his belief that you can stop tirz cold turkey without regaining weight.
 
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