Nexaph Reta 12 mg - neon green cap under- performing 89-92 % re-testing

[morganite]

To whoever comes across these vials ....
A group of us who bought Reta 12 mg / neon green caps, purple crimp in October 2024 decided to re-test the batch as it was originally under - performing at 97 - 98 % purity. With the help of Sabrina F, who has lab access we sent in a bunch of vials and got the results today. I am posting Sabrina's comments with her test results here. I am sincerely hoping that none of us in this community will be tempted to use this product and I am also hoping that , by making the test results public that we will spot it right away if someone should try to sell it anywhere in the servers.
To be fair to Cain and Nexaph, the Reta got re-shipped /replaced to all of us who bought it.

Attached you find the test results that were completed today.

Here are Sabrina's comments, I have her permission to share them with you:
"I won’t make any bold claims as to what is going on. The tests indicate:
Degradation due to oxidation
Possibly worsened by the fact that this might be Na form of the compound
Degradation has caused some changes in sensitive residues which usually happens when a peptide degrades
NMR showed a degradation of the product (point in time) of about 89-92% (again this is not HPLC)
Mass does not conform but this is what we have been seeing in many other tests the mass around ~4728-4730 g/mol. Per ICH standards this is off, per research guidelines it’s fine. Purity per research standard passes for both MS and NMR. No TFA detected.

Again everyone has their own tolerance risks, this is just the tests results at this time to how they showed up. Might have been better before might be the same or worse later we won’t know if we do not test.

I try to be as objective and scientific while providing explanations that make sense."

 

[peptideusername]

 

[Dee X]

View attachment 4227

 

[YoYoFat]

Her test results seem to conflict with those from PT/TP.

 

[morganite]

Her test results seem to conflict with those from PT/TP. View attachment 4229

As already previously stated... your reta results are from the new , re-shipped batch ... green, not neo green.... Attached are the original results from the NEON green batch, BEFORE the Reta degraded by another 10 % within a month..... And yes, it is SHOCKING how far test results can be apart.....

 

[keangkong]

So many people use Numega Labs for GLP-1 drugs?

 

[chmuse]

@DwightTheDelight

 

[DevynL90]

no one wants to shit on cain more than i do, but the only other example of this "lab" that i've seen managed to misread it's own test result and claimed tirzepatide was in fact reta (when it wasn't). jano showed up in the swiss discord the following day and promptly tore the result apart and basically called it a complete and utter joke.

not here to start an argument, sabrina seems smart and is nice, but these test results from this particular lab aren't even close to being reliable. folks should not be paying money on this stuff. just use TP/Jano and stop cutting corners.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

no one wants to shit on cain more than i do, but the only other example of this "lab" that i've seen managed to misread it's own test result and claimed tirzepatide was in fact reta (when it wasn't). jano showed up in the swiss discord the following day and promptly tore the result apart and basically called it a complete and utter joke.

not here to start an argument, sabrina seems smart and is nice, but these test results from this particular lab aren't even close to being reliable. folks should not be paying money on this stuff. just use TP/Jano and stop cutting corners.

Agreed. As short and tumultuous as nexa’s track record is, this lab’s seems to be shorter and even less steady. Testing w Jano, or at least with one of the domestic labs, is needed for sure.

 

[GimmeABreak]

As already previously stated... your reta results are from the new , re-shipped batch ... green, not neo green.... Attached are the original results from the NEON green batch, BEFORE the Reta degraded by another 10 % within a month..... And yes, it is SHOCKING how far test results can be apart.....

Here is another test the Reta GB did on the degraded Reta, note how it degraded about 1% further in 18 just days. There is always variability in purity testing across labs so I wouldn't say Numega labs purity is exactly as stated, but I do believe they have demonstrated the purity of this product has degraded significantly roughly 30 days after the latest Jano test.

 

[Vicki]

Agreed. As short and tumultuous as nexa’s track record is, this lab’s seems to be shorter and even less steady. Testing w Jano, or at least with one of the domestic labs, is needed for sure.

This was retested with Jano also and is only getting worse. The numega labs reports are confusing but I'm sure its not far off in this case.

I've used this batch and after being reconstituted it was less potent like a week or two later. His new batch tested lower than other vendors reta too (99.1% vs most vendors seem to be able to get around 99.5%+). I wouldn't be shocked if a month later the SNP reta is around 98% and still has the same issues as the first batch.

To add, I'm not a nexaph hater too lol. I bought a bunch of stuff from them but they do seem to have a degradation issue that happens later on with some of their peptides. I stopped buying anything new until they sort this out. They also are basically a pre-pay group buy now so I don't even get 2 day shipping so there's no point.

 

[Chizikitide-1977]

I actually have an overarching theory for Nexaph, just a theory, but I've been kicking it around fo a while and it seems more plausible as more evidence comes out. I’ll show all the evidence I’ve found for it.

Here is the theroy: At least a sizeable portion of Nexaph products are QC fails from several Chinese factories that they get at a very low price. See this post from Zippity regarding new domestic vendors selling QC factory fails for high profit (apparently it’s really common).

It's well known to those of us who have been around this hobby since early on that most of the Chinese fill & finish houses liquidate their QC fails to any number of the pop-up trading companies who then in turn sell in bulk to US vendors (usually start-ups)

Post in thread 'CanTides'

Jul 3, 2024

We have never heard of clearance GLP peptide products before. If you can explain what you mean by that cos certainly that is not how we do business. We have completed third party Janoshik testing on 4 of our products (Tirz 10, 15, Sema 5, 10)so far and waiting for new shipments of Reta, cagri, Tirz 30 to do testing on those as well.

All our items are guaranteed to be pure or money back and our post on peppy outlined that, we encouraged our customers to do blind tests which is a normal expectation coming from the AAS side of our business.

Also if you can show us this sketchy dirty...

• ZippityDooDah

• 
• 

Now the evidence:

First, rapid degradation is common when a peptide isn’t finished correctly, and this could account for the numerous 2nd and 3rd party test discrepancies. It could be the peptides degrade a couple % in a month or so. Improperly finished peptides are definitely a QC issue and most factories couldn’t sell these at regular price. In fact Cain has even acknowledged that rapid degradation is causing the 2nd/3rd party test mis-matches and this threads OP further corroborates this.

Second, I mentioned this alread elsewhere, but there have also been multiple reports of bad crimps and loose caps, which are also QC issues. @zpped and @peptideusername have posted pics of this elsewhere so hopefully they can post here too. I've never heard reports of this type of thing from other vendors either.

Third, if they are selling QC fails it would also explain why they are constantly running out of stock. Their stock would be limited by how frequently whichever Chinese factories they work with screw up. Nexaph has been around long enough to get their supply issues sorted by now, the fact that they haven’t is a red flag.

Fourth, it would also explain why they can offer the lowest prices of any domestic vendor, still offer guarantees and remain profitable. If they are selling QC fails I’m sure they get them for next to nothing. And while some may take advantage of their guarantees, I’m sure many more do not, so even if they refund or replace some questionable products, they can still turn a profit. Even if they replace the occasional batch, they could still turn a profit if they get the products cheap enough and if they test fast enough this problem won't be obvious in most cases.

Fifth, before it was outed that Nexaph was domestic Cain argued on Meso that they must be a Chinese company because they wouldn’t be profitable at their prices otherwise. And he was right, it wouldn't be possible to be profitable at their prices (which are the lowest of any domestic vendor by far) unless they are getting their stock at next to nothing. And I’m sure QC fails can be bought wholesale for next to nothing.

Sixth, one last thing, this theory could also explain the use of the histidine filler Cain claimed to use (and subsequently denied if you believe that....). Jano has pointed out this filler can be used to hide impurities, so this unusual filler could have been used by the finisher to cover up some type of impurity in a bad batch of raws, which would make it harder to detect in testing. This would also be the type of sub-par product sold in bulk at a much lower price.

As mentioned before, this is just a theory, but it is not baseless, I showed the evidence. I've suspected this for months now and as time goes on there seems to be more and more evidence for it. Also, as reported by Gonk, it’s common practice among newer domestic vendors.

 

[peptideusername]

@zpped and @peptideusername have posted pics of this elsewhere so hopefully they can post here too

"crimp"

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

I actually have an overarching theory for Nexaph, just a theory, but I've been kicking it around fo a while and it seems more plausible as more evidence comes out. I’ll show all the evidence I’ve found for it.

Here is the theroy: At least a sizeable portion of Nexaph products are QC fails from several Chinese factories that they get at a very low price. See this post from Zippity regarding new domestic vendors selling QC factory fails for high profit (apparently it’s really common).

Post in thread 'CanTides'

Jul 3, 2024

We have never heard of clearance GLP peptide products before. If you can explain what you mean by that cos certainly that is not how we do business. We have completed third party Janoshik testing on 4 of our products (Tirz 10, 15, Sema 5, 10)so far and waiting for new shipments of Reta, cagri, Tirz 30 to do testing on those as well.

All our items are guaranteed to be pure or money back and our post on peppy outlined that, we encouraged our customers to do blind tests which is a normal expectation coming from the AAS side of our business.

Also if you can show us this sketchy dirty...

• ZippityDooDah

• 
• 

Now the evidence:

First, rapid degradation is common when a peptide isn’t finished correctly, and this could account for the numerous 2nd and 3rd party test discrepancies. It could be the peptides degrade a couple % in a month or so. Improperly finished peptides are definitely a QC issue and most factories couldn’t sell these at regular price. In fact Cain has even acknowledged that rapid degradation is causing the 2nd/3rd party test mis-matches and this threads OP further corroborates this.

Second, I mentioned this alread elsewhere, but there have also been multiple reports of bad crimps and loose caps, which are also QC issues. @zpped and @peptideusername have posted pics of this elsewhere so hopefully they can post here too. I've never heard reports of this type of thing from other vendors either.

Third, if they are selling QC fails it would also explain why they are constantly running out of stock. Their stock would be limited by how frequently whichever Chinese factories they work with screw up. Nexaph has been around long enough to get their supply issues sorted by now, the fact that they haven’t is a red flag.

Fourth, it would also explain why they can offer the lowest prices of any domestic vendor, still offer guarantees and remain profitable. If they are selling QC fails I’m sure they get them for next to nothing. And while some may take advantage of their guarantees, I’m sure many more do not, so even if they refund or replace some questionable products, they can still turn a profit. Even if they replace the occasional batch, they could still turn a profit if they get the products cheap enough and if they test fast enough this problem won't be obvious in most cases.

Fifth, before it was outed that Nexaph was domestic Cain argued on Meso that they must be a Chinese company because they wouldn’t be profitable at their prices otherwise. And he was right, it wouldn't be possible to be profitable at their prices (which are the lowest of any domestic vendor by far) unless they are getting their stock at next to nothing. And I’m sure QC fails can be bought wholesale for next to nothing.

Sixth, one last thing, this theory could also explain the use of the histidine filler Cain claimed to use (and subsequently denied if you believe that....). Jano has pointed out this filler can be used to hide impurities, so this unusual filler could have been used by the finisher to cover up some type of impurity in a bad batch of raws, which would make it harder to detect in testing. This would also be the type of sub-par product sold in bulk at a much lower price.

As mentioned before, this is just a theory, but it is not baseless, I showed the evidence. I've suspected this for months now and as time goes on there seems to be more and more evidence for it. Also, as reported by Gonk, it’s common practice among newer domestic vendors.

Alternatively, maybe they are in fact finishing some themselves in their garage and don’t know wtf they’re doing. Learning on the job while marketing yourself as equivalent to existing players is also common in this peptide gold rush, and works because so many customers are newbies so don’t recognize the difference between a recordless vendor and an established one. Trustpointe is a recent example of that phenomenon.

 

[Nikki nik]

I've purchased a few times. Will I go back NO. Not even if tirz is the lowest and faster delivery. Too much going on too soon. There's enough vendors to choose from.

 

[Chizikitide-1977]

Alternatively, maybe they are in fact finishing some themselves in their garage and don’t know wtf they’re doing. Learning on the job while marketing yourself as equivalent to existing players is also common in this peptide gold rush, and works because so many customers are newbies so don’t recognize the difference between a recordless vendor and an established one. Trustpointe is a recent example of that phenomenon.

I've seen that threroy discussed in discord land and agree it could also explain most of the issues I brought up. I just think the QC fails theroy is simpler so by ocams razor it's the one I believe.

On a side note, it is interesting bouncing from the more experienced discord communities where people are debating WHY nexaph's products are bad to here where people still debate IF their products are bad. It gives me whiplash at times.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

I've seen that threroy discussed in discord land and agree it could also explain most of the issues I brought up. I just think the QC fails theroy is simpler so by ocams razor it's the one I believe.

On a side note, it is interesting bouncing from the more experienced discord communities where people are debating WHY nexaph's products are bad to here where people still debate IF their products are bad. It gives me whiplash at times.

Funny, I thought them just being bad at their job was the simpler explanation, you think reselling qc rejects is the simpler one. Someone needs to get Occam on here to settle this for us.

If we go with Hanlon’s Razor instead then the incompetence explanation wins.

 

[Chizikitide-1977]

Funny, I thought them just being bad at their job was the simpler explanation, you think reselling qc rejects is the simpler one. Someone needs to get Occam on here to settle this for us.

Buying crap products from a factory is alot easier than making crap products yourself, no?

 

[Dee X]

Buying crap products from a factory is alot easier than making crap products yourself, no?

Didn't want to think that poorly of them.

Maybe they're just buying Wish rejects.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

Buying crap products from a factory is alot easier than making crap products yourself, no?

Sourcing QC rejects seems more unlikely to me than trying to lyo themselves. I know of others who have taken a stab at onshoring the fill and finish process (the bathtub guys whose name escapes me and bb aminos spring to mind), but have never heard of anyone trying to set up a business reselling qc rejects. Seems like it would be a nightmare for a bunch of reasons:
1. Do these suppliers even do QC in China? The bad batches seem to mostly get discovered by 3rd party testing, possible I just don’t have line of sight there though
2. Even though I don’t think he is especially smart, even baba would recognize that it would be problematic to sell known bad peptides with a purity guarantee. The guy has been in the testing servers for a long time and is well aware that people will be doing post-sale tests
3. Sitting around waiting for a bad batch of whatever to come along doesn’t seem like a very good business model.