Peptides vs Testosterone vs ?

[Bacchus]

Thanks for the concern. Already 100% bald naturally baby! My trt place can provide aromatase inhibitors so no big deal. Or I'll just get them one way or another. As noted above it's pretty unlikely with a low dose of test to get all of these things, and unlikely that I would crash my test forever and feel horrible. There are a lot of signs that my testosterone may be low anyway, so that's part of the motivation.

I'm in my 40s, went bald at 25, will never have children, and have a career that means I would always be able to afford it even if it was for life. I actually need a motivator for donating blood so that is nice too. And I assure you my wife gives zero fucks about my testicle size. I actually don't see any downsides other than the vague health risks and scare mongering.

I mean really, I'm on a forum full of people promoting research peptides from China, you'd think that taking testosterone from a clinic under physician supervision would be the least scary thing on here lol! If you disagree with that it's time to take a step back and reassess risk.

Well, it does seem to be a common consensus that peptides from unverified sources are harmless and has a blanket stamp of safety approval.

But steroids will put you in an early grave.

I am phrasing this in an annoying way on purpose, because it seems to be a common assumption that peptides are generally safe and harmless… insulin is a peptide, not very safe to play around with 🤷‍♂️ as an example

 

[ImSW1]

I would expect that most of the warnings are geared towards newbies that don't know anything about TRT or other PEDs. No doom or gloom, but do your research.

Let's face it, most people on the GLP-1 journey would be better just adding resistance training to their regime before ever taking up test or SARMS, unless your levels are truly testing low.

I'll say it again, take what you want. Everything comes with risk, but educate yourself on what you're taking. I haven't seen anyone advocating recurring labs for tirz/sema etc., but you definitely should get them done if you are using PEDs. You don't need a PCT protocol to get off tirz/sema. There's factors to take into consideration before starting a PED cycle.

Yes, going to a clinic and getting TRT is infinitely safer, but is that what we're really talking about here?

 

[mostlydamp]

I would expect that most of the warnings are geared towards newbies that don't know anything about TRT or other PEDs. No doom or gloom, but do your research.

Let's face it, most people on the GLP-1 journey would be better just adding resistance training to their regime before ever taking up test or SARMS, unless your levels are truly testing low.

I'll say it again, take what you want. Everything comes with risk, but educate yourself on what you're taking. I haven't seen anyone advocating recurring labs for tirz/sema etc., but you definitely should get them done if you are using PEDs. You don't need a PCT protocol to get off tirz/sema. There's factors to take into consideration before starting a PED cycle.

Yes, going to a clinic and getting TRT is infinitely safer, but is that what we're really talking about here?

I appreciate the non-judgmental approach because you're right about everything here. And even if I already know it I think it needs to be said for others that read this. In my case yes, I am going to a clinic and will receive TRT legally. Its not code. If I was buying steroids online that would be different both with regard to dosage and impact on health. I do have other reasons than muscle building but nobody wants to hear about my limp dick. 😀 There ARE risks to testosterone supplementation so that is a real thing including cardiovascular risks. Testosterone is also studied way way more intensively than these peptides so PCT is a way that was learned over time to deal with that fallout. Peptides are pretty new.

I think with regard to labs and dangers around peptides, glp-1s are probably well studied and really safe, but in about 5 to 10 years maybe longer we are going to find out some of these others are not so good and have fallout of their own and should have had a balance with meds or PCT. Maybe they don't mess up you hormones but they may dramatically increase cancer risk or be filling you with microplastics. My point isn't to argue against anything anyone has said so much as to say at least testosterone isn't totally experimental and we know the long term effects. If you go to a clinic, trt is cheap. That seems so much safer to me than taking, say, epitalon which...maybe you'll extend you life with, maybe you'll get horrible cancer who knows! Spin the wheel!

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

i have 0 confidence that medical professionals know any more about this stuff than we do. And all these popup "health spas" are more interested in just selling you something than doing the right thing for you. How much can they tell in a 5 minute talk? For that matter how much does my real doc know about me in a 5 minute talk.

The whole medical industry is crap.

I'm thinking about just ordering every fucking thing on the SRY list and going at it. Probably be less than 1000 bucks total.

 

[mostlydamp]

i have 0 confidence that medical professionals know any more about this stuff than we do. And all these popup "health spas" are more interested in just selling you something than doing the right thing for you. How much can they tell in a 5 minute talk? For that matter how much does my real doc know about me in a 5 minute talk.

The whole medical industry is crap.

I'm thinking about just ordering every fucking thing on the SRY list and going at it. Probably be less than 1000 bucks total.

That's the spirit!

[Cut to scene of Raw being rushed to where? To the Emergency Deaprtment of course.]

I want to bookmark that comment for ya in your brain so you can refer back to it later.

 

[GustyWinds]

I’m taking 225g of protein through shakes daily, and creatine.

Doing as many push ups as I can. I’m also fairly active with farm work.

Not sure how well it’s working, but it seems I’m building muscle as I’m losing.

 

[Dee X]

That's the spirit!

[Cut to scene of Raw being rushed to where? To the Emergency Deaprtment of course.]

I want to bookmark that comment for ya in your brain so you can refer back to it later.

Can't wait for this Netflix documentary on why peptides are bad, feat Oyster's insane research approaches being quoted everywhere.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

Can't wait for this Netflix documentary on why peptides are bad, feat Oyster's insane research approaches being quoted everywhere.

well at this point it's all talk. I haven't done anything over and above, except tesamorelin.

T,R,C and tesa.

Oh, and the fat dissolvers, Lemon Bottle, Lipo Lab, Neobella.

I really should care more what people think about me. I've been trying...

I have more stuff on the way but fedex is holding it in CA for a weather exception. Never seen that before.

 

[dionysos]

Can't wait for this Netflix documentary on why peptides are bad, feat Oyster's insane research approaches being quoted everywhere.

@Dee X
I heard the Netflix peptide documentary is actually @raw_oyster_eater 's biopic 😕

 

[Bacchus]

I would expect that most of the warnings are geared towards newbies that don't know anything about TRT or other PEDs. No doom or gloom, but do your research.

Let's face it, most people on the GLP-1 journey would be better just adding resistance training to their regime before ever taking up test or SARMS, unless your levels are truly testing low.

I'll say it again, take what you want. Everything comes with risk, but educate yourself on what you're taking. I haven't seen anyone advocating recurring labs for tirz/sema etc., but you definitely should get them done if you are using PEDs. You don't need a PCT protocol to get off tirz/sema. There's factors to take into consideration before starting a PED cycle.

Yes, going to a clinic and getting TRT is infinitely safer, but is that what we're really talking about here?

It’s a fair approach, but the default medical disclaimer for both peptides, steroids and most other stuff is a bit over the top.

So repeating that as a first response, is not very nuanced, nor good practical advice.

Saying you shouldn’t consider trt because it might be permanent. Is leading with the extremes, which is unfortunate in my opinion, others that have the same viewpoint will agree with you. A teenager or kid in his early 20s will be more likely to think you’re full of shit and ignore the advice, exactly because you are leading with the extremes, and statistically speaking - it’s fear-mongering.

I’d compare it to me telling you not to take paracetamol because you might get an ulcer. While it’s true, it’s not really a very likely scenario, and you would chose to kill the headache without fearing an ulcer.

By all means, if you don’t need medication - you shouldn’t take it, we completely agree. But in reality, we make a lot of bad choices for various reasons, so practice is different from theory here. I very much agree with you that you should go into it fully informed.

But fully informed also means to include upsides and positives, weighing potential risk vs reward.

I had an interesting argument with ChatGPT yesterday, I wanted it to scan some studies and do some research for me. But it kept refusing to generate a response. And in the end more or less confirmed that it was censoring factual medical information because it was against it’s ethical guidelines to supply the information??

I would hope that anyone considering steroids actually do go to a specialist (not a GP), and get regular blood work done. I downplay a lot of the side effects because I feel that people are generally overly cautious, but if you are unlucky it could get real bad - so better safe than sorry, safe use over gambling any day of the week.

I think the argument @mostlydamp was making wasn’t specifically about trt being safe. But that the risk assessment people do when ordering peptides (Chinese or research), might be a bit lacking.

There are quite a few risk factors being blatantly ignored. And the market over in China isn’t as straight forward as it might seem.

That said, the issue with quality in steroid raws is bigger than with peptides since they are more actively doing something about it.

There is a lot of bunk and bad product going out from china. It’s not a nice and clean market. So you are taking some risk when ordering, though it is likely to be perfectly safe.

 

[ImSW1]

Out of interest, what is considered a low dose of test, that doesn't affect your natural test creation? A healthy body level is considered anywhere between 300 and 1100 ng/dl, but I doubt anyone is dosing to the 300-400 ng/dl range.

I actually don't disagree with very much you say aside from your "fear mongering" comment. It's a reality that everyone should understand that without monitoring of your levels, you stand a good chance of compromising your natural test production and that you will need PCT to come off. Anyone that isn't getting labs, probably isn't going to do a PCT protocol either.

I'll say it again, do what you want with your body. Take what you want. I don't care if it's due to low test, or you want to build an amazing physique. I'll still state my opinion that the majority of people on this forum would be good just adding strength training to build muscle if your test levels aren't considered low.

I'm not trying to change the mind of a 20 year old. I don't have that sort of time 🤣.

 

[Bacchus]

Out of interest, what is considered a low dose of test, that doesn't affect your natural test creation? A healthy body level is considered anywhere between 300 and 1100 ng/dl, but I doubt anyone is dosing to the 300-400 ng/dl range.

I actually don't disagree with very much you say aside from your "fear mongering" comment. It's a reality that everyone should understand that without monitoring of your levels, you stand a good chance of compromising your natural test production and that you will need PCT to come off. Anyone that isn't getting labs, probably isn't going to do a PCT protocol either.

I'll say it again, do what you want with your body. Take what you want. I don't care if it's due to low test, or you want to build an amazing physic. I'll still state my opinion that the majority of people on this forum would be good just adding strength training to build muscle if your test levels aren't considered low.

I'm not trying to change the mind of a 20 year old. I don't have that sort of time 🤣.

I don’t really think there is a specific number since it’s highly individual.

But you will for example see some micro dosing in some longevity protocols, something like 25-50mg weekly. Which wouldn’t be very likely to suppress natural production unless you are sensitive. But only doing routine blood tests will let you know for sure.

Age plays a major role, and a young person can bounce back from quite heavy suppression - gets worse with age though.

I’d say anything that keeps you within a high range of natural production is unlikely to severely suppress natural production - but over time you might have to keep increasing the dose as you experience progressive shutdown.

So, any dose would in theory affect natural production, but with a good pct protocol the bounce back is usually quite quick (again individual annd ange related). And some swear to using hcg to keep production active. Personally I don’t really see the point, but my “trt” dose isn’t exactly standard.

I’m also of the opinion that most healthy and active males over 40 would probably benefit from permanent trt (healthy and active being the key words).

I don’t disagree with you at all, but for some damaged individuals like myself, the muscle growth from a healthy diet and exercise just doesn’t take me where I want to be 😉

To call your comment fear mongering might be a stretch, I’m just of the opinion that bouncing back from a try dose isn’t very problematic if you’re generally healthy and in good shape.

There are millions of men on trt that are super happy with it. I’d say it’s rare to experience bad effects and heavy aromatase, it’s just that those experiencing the worst effects are the loudest about it.

I’ve been on 600mg/week for over two years and have no issues, except an annoying growth of body hair over time 🤷‍♂️ but easily manageable with some laser treatments.

That is in no way considered trt and I’m a total degen, so I wouldn’t recommend anyone to do the same.

But if you have low T, I don’t see any issue with adding 75-100mg per week to see if it works for you

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

. I'll still state my opinion that the majority of people on this forum would be good just adding strength training to build muscle if your test levels aren't considered low.

i spent years trying to build abs (i even had inversion boots), trying to get big legs and arms. It's a waste of time. I wish i had just done steroids like my brother and all my friends. My body didn't have the natural test or whatever to build muscle. The thousands of hours were a waste of my life. I do not/did not enjoy being around all the bros. I should have been hanging with the geeks, better yet with GIRLS. I'm not going to spend hours in a friggin gym trying to do this anymore. Especially with covid and the flu always going around.

I would venture to say there are millions upon millions of guys doing TRT whether they need it or not. Those clinics/spas never refuse anyone. It's on BOston sports radio 98.5 for god's sake, every other commercial.

 

[ImSW1]

i spent years trying to build abs (i even had inversion boots), trying to get big legs and arms. It's a waste of time. I wish i had just done steroids like my brother and all my friends. My body didn't have the natural test or whatever to build muscle. The thousands of hours were a waste of my life. I do not/did not enjoy being around all the bros. I should have been hanging with the geeks, better yet with GIRLS. I'm not going to spend hours in a friggin gym trying to do this anymore. Especially with covid and the flu always going around.

I would venture to say there are millions upon millions of guys doing TRT whether they need it or not. Those clinics/spas never refuse anyone. It's on BOston sports radio 98.5 for god's sake, every other commercial.

You're the outlier, you know, the one that gets discarded from the study because your needs were too far out of the norm 😘. Abs are built in the kitchen, right after you take your weekly GLP-1 shot 🤣.

Again, for rebuilding basic muscle loss due to GLP-1s, add some resistance training.

If you want to get on TRT or other PEDs, research it, determine if you can accept the positives and negatives, make your decision. Get swoll 😁.

 

[nask0]

GLP-1 reduces ghrelin. Growth hormone secretagogues increase ghrelin.

When mixing the two, the Retatrutide never felt like it worked, raising the question "is it bunk". After a while, starting over with just Reta, it was like WOW this Reta works!

 

[Cavalier]

If it’s a good idea depends on the intention.

But yes, it would be one of the safest ways to get an additional boost to muscle growth in addition to the trt.

Personally I would opt for Anavar, even though it arguably has higher side effects and toxicity. But in a healthy individual a small dosage would not be very harmful - but if you are sensitive to suppression of natural testosterone you might want to increase the trt dosage in that case.

The reason I’d go for that option is the additional fat burning properties, and it hardens muscle in a different way compared to ostarine.

That said, nothing wrong with your current plan, and it will give additional effect with very low risk of complications

Ok, i know this is not medical advice so feel free to speak freely but i know you have more experience than most here with this tuff so i want to ask you. Im a 51m 5’11” was 271lbs at my heaviest 3 months ago (in 2 days it’ll be 3 months exactly) and am now 216lbs from just tirz! I also got my blood labs done before going on anything 3 months ago and found besides the norm,al fat problems (high BP, High cholesterol, high A1C, etc) that i was vitamin D deficient and had low testosterone. Doc prescribed me a high dose of vitamin D (50,000iu per week) and testosterone gel 1.6% 2 pumps daily which if I’m not mistaken is 40mg. According to the lab report, the normal range for my age was 264-916, i scored a 148 (yikes!) and free test normal range was 7.2 - 24, i scored a 4.4 (double yikes) which I’m sure combined with low vitamin D heavily contributed to my weight gain and lethargy. Fast forward 3 months and new labs and all the fat related issues are gone and in the normal range (woo hoo) and vitamin D back in normal range as well. But the reason I’m here. Testosterone went from a 148 to a 326 (again normal range for my age according to the lab is 264-916) and free test is now 6.2 (was a 4.4 and normal range is 7.2 - 24). Doc renewed the script for the gel as it’s definitely helping and for only 3 months i think the results are good. Ive never had real muscles, in high school i was super skinny (125lbs) and then between 17-21yrs of age i was about 185-200lbs but never muscular. As ive gotten older and eaten like crap i just got fatter and more inactive. Im now retired and have been since 2020 (thanks bitcoin!) and want to get muscles and be more fit. Ive started resistance training and after my first arm day I couldn’t move my arms for 4 days lol! So i added cjc1295 (no DAC) and Ipamorelin and BPC157 for the last 4 weeks (5 day on 2 days off) and all the soreness instantly went away and can now do arms daily with no need for recovery the next day (although since I’m a beginner I’m sure I’m not pushing myself to my max but it kinda feels like it ha ha). My doc suggested anavar as her boyfriend went on it and she said that within a week he looked like a different person. She also is very supportive of my peptide use (Shes very progressive and up on a lot of the new stuff like peptides as most docs aren’t). Because I’m a newbie and just starting my muscle training journey and still on tirz…. Do you think anavar is a decent choice? Should I still to super low doses like 10mg daily? How long should i do it for? Do i need to take days off? This is all new to me and i dont want to look like Mr Olympia but ive never had biceps before and I’m already noticing harder arms and less jiggling lol. Also want to minimize any loose skin (dont have any yet but the last 31lbs i want to lose may give some so more muscle minimizes that.) My goal weight is 185lbs. Which isnt as important to me as looking and feeling good and having more muscle etc. If you need more info let me know. Im open to most all peptides but am lost when it comes to test and steroids. Rather not be on it long term and just want to boost my progress. Also not a fan if IM injections but am fine with subq as i do a bunch a week anyways. Thanks in advance and sorry for the wall of text. Just lost and know you are fairly competent with this stuff. 👍🏼

 

[funkl]

Prescription TRT here (120mg/week). My RS is on 8mg GLP-1 (the one with a max dose of 15mg/week) per week as of this past Friday, and I want to give it three weeks at that dose before making adjustments. I believe the TRT is helping to prevent muscle loss, but this has slowed my RS's overall weight loss, since the RS is losing less muscle this time.

 

[Bacchus]

Ok, i know this is not medical advice so feel free to speak freely but i know you have more experience than most here with this tuff so i want to ask you. Im a 51m 5’11” was 271lbs at my heaviest 3 months ago (in 2 days it’ll be 3 months exactly) and am now 216lbs from just tirz! I also got my blood labs done before going on anything 3 months ago and found besides the norm,al fat problems (high BP, High cholesterol, high A1C, etc) that i was vitamin D deficient and had low testosterone. Doc prescribed me a high dose of vitamin D (50,000iu per week) and testosterone gel 1.6% 2 pumps daily which if I’m not mistaken is 40mg. According to the lab report, the normal range for my age was 264-916, i scored a 148 (yikes!) and free test normal range was 7.2 - 24, i scored a 4.4 (double yikes) which I’m sure combined with low vitamin D heavily contributed to my weight gain and lethargy. Fast forward 3 months and new labs and all the fat related issues are gone and in the normal range (woo hoo) and vitamin D back in normal range as well. But the reason I’m here. Testosterone went from a 148 to a 326 (again normal range for my age according to the lab is 264-916) and free test is now 6.2 (was a 4.4 and normal range is 7.2 - 24). Doc renewed the script for the gel as it’s definitely helping and for only 3 months i think the results are good. Ive never had real muscles, in high school i was super skinny (125lbs) and then between 7-21yrs of age i was about 185-200lbs but never muscular. As ive gotten older and eaten like crap i just got fatter and more inactive. Im now retired and have been since 2020 (thanks bitcoin!) and want to get muscles and be more fit. Ive started resistance training and after my first arm day I couldn’t move my arms for 4 days lol! So i added cjc1295 (no DAC) and Ipamorelin and BPC157 for the last 4 weeks (5 day on 2 days off) and all the soreness instantly went away and can now do arms daily with no need for recovery the next day (although since I’m a beginner I’m sure I’m not pushing myself to my max but it kinda feels like it ha ha). My doc suggested anavar as her boyfriend went on it and she said that within a week he looked like a different person. She also is very supportive of my peptide use (Shes very progressive and up on a lot of the new stuff like peptides as most docs aren’t). Because I’m a newbie and just starting my muscle training journey and still on tirz…. Do you think anavar is a decent choice? Should I still to super low doses like 10mg daily? How long should i do it for? Do i need to take days off? This is all new to me and i dont want to look like Mr Olympia but ive never had biceps before and I’m already noticing harder arms and less jiggling lol. Also want to minimize any loose skin (dont have any yet but the last 31lbs i want to lose may give some so more muscle minimizes that.) My goal weight is 185lbs. Which isnt as important to me as looking and feeling good and having more muscle etc. If you need more info let me know. Im open to most all peptides but am lost when it comes to test and steroids. Rather not be on it long term and just want to boost my progress. Also not a fan if IM injections but am fine with subq as i do a bunch a week anyways. Thanks in advance and sorry for the wall of text. Just lost and know you are fairly competent with this stuff. 👍🏼

First thing I want to say is, 20 pounds a month is rapid progress - Good job!

I would focus more on keeping up the good work instead of trying to speed up. You are already doing a lot correctly and it sounds like a major change with very good health improvements!

You clearly found yourself some strong motivation to make big changes, and personally I think you should focus on making that into a subconscious routine before improving more. (Take it from someone who has ran face first into a wall and burned out several times).

When it comes to anavar, 10mg is about as harmful to your body as a beer is. But drinking 3-4 beer par day over an extended time is definitely not healthy 😉

10mg 2 times daily should give you a significant boost and effect. Do that for 8 weeks, test your liver values again and see where you are at.

Alternatively since anavar isn’t as reliant on stacking up in the body as some injectables, you could use it 4-5 days a week (on exercise days).

But as a rule of thumb, you wouldn’t want to do more than 8-12 weeks consistently without giving your body a break. And monitor testosterone levels to make sure your natural production isn’t getting suppressed too much, then you might want to consider a break + pct, or to up your trt. But I can’t really tell you which option is better for you specifically.

The important part is to figure out how much it impacts your liver, and adjust based on that.

All that said, with those doses, there shouldn’t really be any issues. But with optimal bad luck you could have an underlying condition, so stay safe.

It’s also worth mentioning that more test and anavar will increase your protein synthesis, so you could up your protein intake a bit if it’s low.

And remember to combine some rapid carbs with your post workout protein, it really helps recovery.

NB: Please let your body get used to the soreness and give it a couple months before you start. One big issue with steroids that is often neglected, is that if you are used to the extra pump, energy, strength and “aggression” it could be quite demotivating to train without it.

So try getting your body i to the habit of working out, and your mind to enjoy being exhausted.

As for dosing of steroids in general. It more or less works on two scales.

One linear scale where more steroids = more muscle

One exponential scale where more steroids = more aide effects

So when it comes to “what’s enough”, that is very difficult to answer. All i can say is: be RELIGIOUS in taking progress photos so your mind doesn’t do you in and give you body dysmorphia 😉

When it comes to pushing hard enough at the gym: if it’s comfortable you are not doing it right 😁 Out body adjust to pressure, so you need to make sure it struggles a bit, just don’t go bonkers with crazy influencer exercises with absurd risks of injury 😂

I hope that helps, let me know if i skipped answering anything specific.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

First thing I want to say is, 20 pounds a month is rapid progress - Good job!

The responses i get from a bunch of people here. That's unhealthy and you're going to damage yourself. We're concerned about your health. blah blah blah.

blah blah blah.

 

[dionysos]

... not a fan if IM injections but am fine with subq as i do a bunch a week anyways. ...

@Cavalier
Welcome and Congratulations on your substantial rate of weight loss.
Like better informed @Bacchus I too think your approach is a good one, and, that the best weight loss/muscle-building program is the one you are willing to do consistently.

Some years ago I was a body-builder wannabe with a trainer and a well-informed MD who supervised my Testosterone Replacement Therapy. Supplemental T was very good indeed in a variety of beneficial ways. We first tried topical gel as you are doing but got only middling uptake - maybe it was my thick research QAlligator skin?

Shifting to sub-Q injections with Testosterone from a compounding pharmacy worked MUCH BETTER for me!

MY SUGGESTION is that rather than pushing your dosage higher consider changing to sub-Q injections for more effective T uptake.

Best of luck with your weight loss and muscle-building program!
Dionysos

 

[Cavalier]

First thing I want to say is, 20 pounds a month is rapid progress - Good job!

I would focus more on keeping up the good work instead of trying to speed up. You are already doing a lot correctly and it sounds like a major change with very good health improvements!

You clearly found yourself some strong motivation to make big changes, and personally I think you should focus on making that into a subconscious routine before improving more. (Take it from someone who has ran face first into a wall and burned out several times).

When it comes to anavar, 10mg is about as harmful to your body as a beer is. But drinking 3-4 beer par day over an extended time is definitely not healthy 😉

10mg 2 times daily should give you a significant boost and effect. Do that for 8 weeks, test your liver values again and see where you are at.

Alternatively since anavar isn’t as reliant on stacking up in the body as some injectables, you could use it 4-5 days a week (on exercise days).

But as a rule of thumb, you wouldn’t want to do more than 8-12 weeks consistently without giving your body a break. And monitor testosterone levels to make sure your natural production isn’t getting suppressed too much, then you might want to consider a break + pct, or to up your trt. But I can’t really tell you which option is better for you specifically.

The important part is to figure out how much it impacts your liver, and adjust based on that.

All that said, with those doses, there shouldn’t really be any issues. But with optimal bad luck you could have an underlying condition, so stay safe.

It’s also worth mentioning that more test and anavar will increase your protein synthesis, so you could up your protein intake a bit if it’s low.

And remember to combine some rapid carbs with your post workout protein, it really helps recovery.

NB: Please let your body get used to the soreness and give it a couple months before you start. One big issue with steroids that is often neglected, is that if you are used to the extra pump, energy, strength and “aggression” it could be quite demotivating to train without it.

So try getting your body i to the habit of working out, and your mind to enjoy being exhausted.

As for dosing of steroids in general. It more or less works on two scales.

One linear scale where more steroids = more muscle

One exponential scale where more steroids = more aide effects

So when it comes to “what’s enough”, that is very difficult to answer. All i can say is: be RELIGIOUS in taking progress photos so your mind doesn’t do you in and give you body dysmorphia 😉

When it comes to pushing hard enough at the gym: if it’s comfortable you are not doing it right 😁 Out body adjust to pressure, so you need to make sure it struggles a bit, just don’t go bonkers with crazy influencer exercises with absurd risks of injury 😂

I hope that helps, let me know if i skipped answering anything specific.

First, thanks for the reply and the info. And to be clear i don’t want to speed up my weight loss, thats going fine (although the less i weigh the slower it’s coming off but I’m becoming ok with that). My goals with asking this stuff is more on how to gain muscle more quickly with the least chance of side effects and or health issues. I’d like to push it to the most i can do without the health issues as to me thats the most important thing but would like to get a boost as as you read my test is lower than most, I’m older, and have never really been muscular so its not like its easy for my body to get back to when it was muscular, it never has been. Hence the thought id probably need some form of either higher test, or steroids, or other peptides to give my body the boost since its never really made them on its own. Like I said this is all new to me. I dont want to be on a cover of a magazine lol, but id like to have arms that are noticeable, where my shirts are tighter around my biceps, never had abs before, not looking for a 6 pack necessarily but to have a good core i think its important. I just know going completely natural with it in my stage of life an my lack of never having muscles isnt gonna really work on its own. So just looking for some solid advice on what may work in my situation. Do you think starting with just 10mg anavar a day 4-5 times a week when i work out will make a difference if is it pointless unless i do 20mg a day? I just thought that something is better than nothing and because my body isnt used to any of this that it may be smart to start very slow. But if 10mg daily is like a drop of water in a bathtub then maybe that doesn’t make sense to start slower and 20mg daily may be better. Just thinking out loud here. And want to minimize side effects short and long term as much as possible.

 

[Cavalier]

@Cavalier
Welcome and Congratulations on your substantial rate of weight loss.
Like better informed @Bacchus I too think your approach is a good one, and, that the best weight loss/muscle-building program is the one you are willing to do consistently.

Some years ago I was a body-builder wannabe with a trainer and a well-informed MD who supervised my Testosterone Replacement Therapy. Supplemental T was very good indeed in a variety of beneficial ways. We first tried topical gel as you are doing but got only middling uptake - maybe it was my thick research QAlligator skin?

Shifting to sub-Q injections with Testosterone from a compounding pharmacy worked MUCH BETTER for me!

MY SUGGESTION is that rather than pushing your dosage higher consider changing to sub-Q injections for more effective T uptake.

Best of luck with your weight loss and muscle-building program!
Dionysos

Wow, thanks for the info! I’ll ask my doc about that. IS there a brand or type i should ask for? Amount, dosage, etc? If she wont/cant prescribe it, is there one you recommend i can get thru either grey or online that works well and is safe? Again, being new to this whole world of test and ster i dont know what really to look for. I’d be all on board with subq test, just dont know where to look or what to look for. And maybe you’re right, that may be best to start and then add anavar later if needed. As the gel is working but not as much as id like.

 

[Bacchus]

First, thanks for the reply and the info. And to be clear i don’t want to speed up my weight loss, thats going fine (although the less i weigh the slower it’s coming off but I’m becoming ok with that). My goals with asking this stuff is more on how to gain muscle more quickly with the least chance of side effects and or health issues. I’d like to push it to the most i can do without the health issues as to me thats the most important thing but would like to get a boost as as you read my test is lower than most, I’m older, and have never really been muscular so its not like its easy for my body to get back to when it was muscular, it never has been. Hence the thought id probably need some form of either higher test, or steroids, or other peptides to give my body the boost since its never really made them on its own. Like I said this is all new to me. I dont want to be on a cover of a magazine lol, but id like to have arms that are noticeable, where my shirts are tighter around my biceps, never had abs before, not looking for a 6 pack necessarily but to have a good core i think its important. I just now going completely natural with it in my stage of life an my lack of never having muscles isnt gonna really work on its own. So list looking for some solid advice on what may work in my situation. Do you think starting with just 10mg anavar a day 4-5 times a week when i work out will make a difference if is it pointless unless i do 20mg a day? I just thought that something is better than nothing and because my body isnt used to any of this that it may be smart to start very slow. But if 10mg daily is like a drop of water in a bathtub then maybe that doesn’t make sense to start slower and 20mg daily may be better. Just thinking out loud here. And want to minimize side effects short and long term as much as possible.

Even a drop of water in the bath tub, eventually fills it up 😁

Some broscience incoming here, so take it with a pinch of salt:

You have a “genetic potential” for muscle mass, where your genetic makeup is gonna say - nah, don’t really need more.

This potential can be crushed through with steroids, and it's how literal beefcake humans exist - but once they stop taking steroids, they will start going back down to their “intended size” (with some variation since there are some permanent changes to your muscle cells from steroid use).

My point being:
As long as you are under this “genetic limit” and you stay active, exercise and don’t take long breaks causing muscle breakdown because it’s not in use. Then the boost in protein synthesis from steroids will help you accumulate muscle faster, no matter how low the dose is.

So start with 10, see how if works for you. People are different, some respond great to a low dose, some needs a bit more.

your workout program and diet also plays a major role. Steroids don’t really over-ride those before you go i to higher dosages 😉

 

[dionysos]

The responses i get from a bunch of people here. That's unhealthy and you're going to damage yourself. We're concerned about your health. blah blah blah.

To be fair Raw, five pounds a week at the start is not extreme weight loss for someone almost 100 pounds over Normal Weight. That is only 1 pound per week above the drug designer's target loss of 1-4 pounds per week.

In any event Cavalier is unlikely to sustain that rate of loss for much longer which is a good thing in my view.

 

[Bacchus]

Wow, thanks for the info! I’ll ask my doc about that. IS there a brand or type i should ask for? Amount, dosage, etc? If she wont/cant prescribe it, is there one you recommend i can get thru either grey or online that works well and is safe? Again, being new to this whole world of test and ster i dont know what really to look for. I’d be all on board with subq test, just dont know where to look or what to look for. And maybe you’re right, that may be best to start and then add anavar later if needed. As the gel is working but not as much as id like.

The typical favourite in the US is test cyp. Personally i prefer enanthate. Depends on how oftwn you are comfortable with injecting.

While you can do them subq, it can leave some annoying lumps. IM of 0.5-1ml test is a lot less scary than it seems - but i understand the hessitation.

In my opinion, any veraion that helps you keep stable levels is preferable. Gel is not really the best option for that.

Your doc should be able to prescribe it for you and assist you with any questions. If she doesn’t I can point you in the direction, but I would prefer if you go via your doctor 🙂 (or a trt clinic, though i think they charge a lot more than what’s “fair”)

 

[Bacchus]

The responses i get from a bunch of people here. That's unhealthy and you're going to damage yourself. We're concerned about your health. blah blah blah.

blah blah blah.

Hehe, i think it might be because of your researcher spirit and willingness to be your own guinea pig.

So I wouldn’t be very surprised if what you are doing in reality is significantly safer than it might seem for us when reading 😉

 

[dionysos]

Wow, thanks for the info! I’ll ask my doc about that. IS there a brand or type i should ask for? Amount, dosage, etc? If she wont/cant prescribe it, is there one you recommend i can get thru either grey or online that works well and is safe? Again, being new to this whole world of test and ster i dont know what really to look for. I’d be all on board with subq test, just dont know where to look or what to look for. And maybe you’re right, that may be best to start and then add anavar later if needed. As the gel is working but not as much as id like.

In all things related to prescription drug dosages you should rely upon your MD's advice.

She sounds very clued up about peptides and TRT. Mention sub-Q injections, better uptake, and compounded testosterone when you guys talk then let her take it from there; you'll get the right answers from the best-informed professional source.

 

[milos]

@Cavalier -> both @dionysos and @Bacchus have given you detailed answers, so I can only add a detail that 20mg of Oxandrolone/Anavar will indeed make a big difference:

Effects of androgen therapy on adipose tissue and metabolism in older men - PubMed

We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

(note this was without a diet)

Even 10mg is not just a drop ... there will be a difference for sure!

Anyway, you are doing well so far, congratulations and keep up the good work!

 

[mostlydamp]

At the risk of reviving an old thread I wanted to add a follow up to my TRT situation. It could help others here. With symptoms of low T I contacted an online TRT company. I got labs done to get a baseline and found out I am a genetic freak walking around making 1071 ng/dL without any special effort. I mean I lost most of the weight and am healthy, good sleep. But this is apparently like unicorn level testosterone. I feel like I win the lottery! 🙂

Test your testosterone before using anything that affects it folks! If I took testosterone blindly I would in the long run only tank my production to some degree.

 

[Dee X]

At the risk of reviving an old thread I wanted to add a follow up to my TRT situation. It could help others here. With symptoms of low T I contacted an online TRT company. I got labs done to get a baseline and found out I am a genetic freak walking around making 1071 ng/dL without any special effort. I mean I lost most of the weight and am healthy, good sleep. But this is apparently like unicorn level testosterone. I feel like I win the lottery! 🙂

Test your testosterone before using anything that affects it folks! If I took testosterone blindly I would in the long run only tank my production to some degree.

No wonder you're mostly damp, got that T leaking out of you.