📌Is 🇷🇪🇹🇦 supposed to be this way⁉️❓

Take it up to 1mg every three days and thank me later. 2mg is the starting dose and there's no reason to stay low once you start low and avoid the sides.

I started at 0.5mg and didn't have any suppression either. So every two days I did another 0.5 until I hit 2mg for the week. Then went to 1mg every 3 days. Appetite suppression was great and I lost four pounds a week for the first three weeks. Now I'm at 4.66 mg per week, 2mg every three days. It's pin day in-fact!
 
Take it up to 1mg every three days and thank me later. 2mg is the starting dose and there's no reason to stay low once you start low and avoid the sides.

I started at 0.5mg and didn't have any suppression either. So every two days I did another 0.5 until I hit 2mg for the week. Then went to 1mg every 3 days. Appetite suppression was great and I lost four pounds a week for the first three weeks. Now I'm at 4.66 mg per week, 2mg every three days. It's pin day in-fact!
I was considering a plan like this... Split dosing.
 
I was considering a plan like this... Split dosing.
I can't understand why anyone would dose once a week. The half life is six days. Receptor desensitization is a myth. Split dosing is super effective for me.
 
I can't understand why anyone would dose once a week. The half life is six days. Receptor desensitization is a myth. Split dosing is super effective for me.
I think it has to do with misunderstanding what the term, "half-life" means, and how it's different from drug effects. Half-life simply measures the existence of a quantity of drug in the vessel. There's no indication of how the drug's effects manifest. If many anecdotal claims of having appetite suppression only on the first few days after dosing are true, then logically, split dosing is called for.
 
I can't understand why anyone would dose once a week. The half life is six days. Receptor desensitization is a myth. Split dosing is super effective for me.
I started January 9 at once a week and have lost 40lbs. I read about the half life way back before starting and way before joining here. Staying with the once a week deal.
I think it has to do with misunderstanding what the term, "half-life" means, and how it's different from drug effects. Half-life simply measures the existence of a quantity of drug in the vessel. There's no indication of how the drug's effects manifest. If many anecdotalclaims of having appetite suppression only on the first few days after dosing are true, then logically, split dosing is called for.
I totally understand the half life deal. See above. I’ll continue on my once a week.
 
I started January 9 at once a week and have lost 40lbs. I read about the half life way back before starting and way before joining here. Staying with the once a week deal.

I totally understand the half life deal. See above. I’ll continue on my once a week.
No if it works for you I totally get it!

I didn't fully elaborate on my meaning... Once a week makes sense if you don't have appetite problems. I actually still struggle with overeating on 4.66mg a week, I could easily eat 3-4 brownies or a triple quarter pounder right now. I need so much appetite suppression that it's actually disgusting.

I fully expect to need cagri soon 🤣
 
1mg every 3 days here also. I started at 0.5mg with the intention of pinning weekly, hunger got the best of me and I did another 0.5mg after 3 days. I've stuck to the every 3 days since.

After a month I went up to 1mg/3 days
 
Lacking any true clinical evidence would be one good reason.
Ah, the old argument from authority fallacy over logical empiricism-enabled synthesis again? I always wonder where the true root of the dogmatic belief in its efficacy and inviolability stems from. Certainly not from the scientific method.
 
A proper logician would understand the inherently irrational/unreasonable/illogical fault plaguing most "clinical" studies and thus, the indisputably flawed "evidence" resulting from them. "Clinical" studies are often performed in controlled, "clinical" settings with predetermined variables, and many variables are discounted for ease. Real-life settings are undeniably different from such clinical settings. Additionally, they ignore empirical evidence from real life if it doesn't gel with their "laboratory"-derived "facts", when it ought to be done the other way around.

For example, for decades now, the scam about saturated fat being a malignant evil and plant-based/vegan diets being a panacea has been pervading mainstream discourse. Yet, the original four Blue Zones: Okinawa, Ikaria, Sardinia, Costa Rica, where people have longevity and long healthspans have traditional diets rich in saturated fat, low in seed oils, high in red meat, low in simple sugars.. In fact, in Okinawa, the Blue Zone with the longest lifespan of them all, they even had lower seafood consumption than the rest of Japan. Even more tellingly, after 2000, Westernization changed Okinawan diets, and their lifespans decreased. On top of that, they discard the French Paradox, Israeli Paradox, and refuse to consider the unhealthiness of the largest population of a historically vegetarian ethnicity in India.

In this scenario, a bunch of people have testified to using split dosing because it helps them with greater appetite suppression, and staving off food noise. Yet, some people claim a lack of clinical evidence as reason enough to dismiss these assertions. That same flawed principle is used in other contexts too, where it is equally wrong because it fails to account for a very important fact:
ABSCENCE OF ANY EVIDENCE (EVEN CLINICAL) IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSCENCE.
 
I started January 9 at once a week and have lost 40lbs. I read about the half life way back before starting and way before joining here. Staying with the once a week deal.

I totally understand the half life deal. See above. I’ll continue on my once a week.
Oh, I have no issues with your understanding of the half-life concept. How could I? I don't even know you. You can definitely continue as you see fit. Why would I ever have a problem with that? On the contrary, I wish you the very best of success in all your endeavors.
 
I can't understand why anyone would dose once a week. The half life is six days. Receptor desensitization is a myth. Split dosing is super effective for me.
That is what they’re doing in the trials. The drug was designed to be used and dosed once a week. I think it’s probably a good idea to follow the protocol that the scientists who made the drug have developed for it. I’m not saying twice isn’t as good or inferior, that we don’t know yet. I’m just saying it was designed with once a week dosage in mind that’s why the half life is six days and the dosage is usually taken 4 weeks before changing it up (from 2mg to 4mg for instance). For instance if you dose once a week at 2mg by the fourth week you’ll have 4mg in your body and that means your body is fine with 4mg so you can start dosing 4mg etc.
 
Ah yes, the youngsters always needing to be correct and know everything in 2 months.
 
That is what they’re doing in the trials. The drug was designed to be used and dosed once a week.
I understand this line of reasoning and I won't fault you for it. I'm well aware of the half-life, what doses the trials used, and their reasoning behind that. I have been deeply invested in pharmacology for more than a decade at this point, and I think you're looking at the whole thing with a certain level of naïvete that I don't think is neccessary. You should have a little more faith in your own reasoning.

Trusting the word of the clinical studies to be the Alpha and Omega dictating your research is sort of like saying that the guidelines from the DMV are the only proper way to drive a car. Once you get in the grass, you may find that your own instincts serve you better.

A proper logician would understand the inherently irrational/unreasonable/illogical fault plaguing most "clinical" studies and thus, the indisputably flawed "evidence" resulting from them.
What he said, but phrased more eloquently.

Ah yes, the youngsters always needing to be correct and know everything in 2 months.
Hey leave me out of this BNLFL! No idea why he went off on you 🤣

The "no evidence" guy just gets it for being cringe.
 
Hey leave me out of this BNLFL! No idea why he went off on you 🤣

The "no evidence" guy just gets it for being cringe.
Ah yes, the youngsters always needing to be correct and know everything in 2 months.
Hey, both of you, leave me out of that. I wasn't targeting anybody in particular. It was purely a discussion of the concept of "studies and evidence". In fact, if anything, I was targeting a discussion on another thread where the colossal reliance on such "evidence" was truly egregious.

But, @BNLFL, thanks for calling me a youngster. NGL, it does feel good.

About knowing everything in two months, I wish. That would be utopia for me.

That is what they’re doing in the trials. The drug was designed to be used and dosed once a week. I think it’s probably a good idea to follow the protocol that the scientists who made the drug have developed for it. I’m not saying twice isn’t as good or inferior, that we don’t know yet. I’m just saying it was designed with once a week dosage in mind that’s why the half life is six days and the dosage is usually taken 4 weeks before changing it up (from 2mg to 4mg for instance). For instance if you dose once a week at 2mg by the fourth week you’ll have 4mg in your body and that means your body is fine with 4mg so you can start dosing 4mg etc.
Errr... yeah, if you begin with a 2mg weekly dose, based on a half-life of 6 days, on day 30, you will end up with 3.1mg in the body. Even on the GLplotter, it shows 3.07mg.

But also, are you sure that the various trials underway are being conducted by the people who made Retatrutide? I find that unlikely, even if it was a relevant argument. Saying that a tool should only be used the way its inventor wanted it to be used would be logically flawed, don't you think?
 
Old Road Warrior 2 from 1981, part of the Mad Max stuff. One of the guys on the big car forum I'm a admin on made it for me. Honest question, where you born yet?
Thought it was Mad Max. The 2015 video game is a guilty pleasure of mine.

I was born in '99. Honest question, did you tank the housing market? 🤣
 
Speaking of dosages, I had more of a stomach upset issue with the first dose of 1mg than the second dose of 1.5mg. In fact, I even lost more weight after the first dose than with the second one, and had more suppression of appetite with the first 1mg dose. Did any of you experience the same? This too contributed to my idea about changing my dosing. I think I'm too large for the 1mg dose.
 
He asked for a reason, I gave one. N's of one is less reliable than actual evidence. 6 day half life also really leads to weekly making better sense for most. All said you do you, go daily.
 
He asked for a reason, I gave one. N's of one is less reliable than actual evidence. 6 day half life also really leads to weekly making better sense for most. All said you do you, go daily.
Do you think that the reason people choose weekly single doses is because they are convinced that it is the right way, or is it because they see that this is the way that most people are doing it because of one mainstream case?
 
Hard to honestly tell, probably more to do with the drug companies trying to make it as easy as possible. Weekly sells better than daily or even twice a week. There is at least one stating once a month is coming.
 
Hard to honestly tell, probably more to do with the drug companies trying to make it as easy as possible. Weekly sells better than daily or even twice a week. There is at least one stating once a month is coming.
See now that's another issue. Split dosing doesnt mean double dose, just more smaller shots. But yes, I totally agree, the future will bring oral, infrequent dosing
 
The biggest advantage in split dosing at this point in the process, low doses and starting, especially with some side effects at low doses, is to be able to increase doses more quickly if wanted, and to do it with lower risks of severe or prolonged side effects.

Compared to a single weekly dose of 2mg, 2 1mg doses 3.5 days apart, are going to produce lower peak drug levels, and peak drug levels are usually where side effects are worst, and it will take less time for blood levels to drop to around pre dose levels, where presumably side effects were not an issue, than for a single larger dose where peaks will be higher, and it will take longer for levels to fall back down to pre dose levels, so side effects are likely to be worse and last longer.

Whether you want to stay on split dosing longer term depends a lot on side effects and doses. If you are trying to balance side effects against effects it can be useful or if you find it wears off after 5 or 6 days, but switching to weekly is reasonable once dose is stable just for convenience.
 
The biggest advantage in split dosing at this point in the process, low doses and starting, especially with some side effects at low doses, is to be able to increase doses more quickly if wanted, and to do it with lower risks of severe or prolonged side effects.

Compared to a single weekly dose of 2mg, 2 1mg doses 3.5 days apart, are going to produce lower peak drug levels, and peak drug levels are usually where side effects are worst, and it will take less time for blood levels to drop to around pre dose levels, where presumably side effects were not an issue, than for a single larger dose where peaks will be higher, and it will take longer for levels to fall back down to pre dose levels, so side effects are likely to be worse and last longer.

Whether you want to stay on split dosing longer term depends a lot on side effects and doses. If you are trying to balance side effects against effects it can be useful or if you find it wears off after 5 or 6 days, but switching to weekly is reasonable once dose is stable just for convenience.
That's excellent news that will feature into my calculations for sure. Thanks a ton.
 
A proper logician would understand the inherently irrational/unreasonable/illogical fault plaguing most "clinical" studies and thus, the indisputably flawed "evidence" resulting from them. "Clinical" studies are often performed in controlled, "clinical" settings with predetermined variables, and many variables are discounted for ease. Real-life settings are undeniably different from such clinical settings. Additionally, they ignore empirical evidence from real life if it doesn't gel with their "laboratory"-derived "facts", when it ought to be done the other way around.

For example, for decades now, the scam about saturated fat being a malignant evil and plant-based/vegan diets being a panacea has been pervading mainstream discourse. Yet, the original four Blue Zones: Okinawa, Ikaria, Sardinia, Costa Rica, where people have longevity and long healthspans have traditional diets rich in saturated fat, low in seed oils, high in red meat, low in simple sugars.. In fact, in Okinawa, the Blue Zone with the longest lifespan of them all, they even had lower seafood consumption than the rest of Japan. Even more tellingly, after 2000, Westernization changed Okinawan diets, and their lifespans decreased. On top of that, they discard the French Paradox, Israeli Paradox, and refuse to consider the unhealthiness of the largest population of a historically vegetarian ethnicity in India.

In this scenario, a bunch of people have testified to using split dosing because it helps them with greater appetite suppression, and staving off food noise. Yet, some people claim a lack of clinical evidence as reason enough to dismiss these assertions. That same flawed principle is used in other contexts too, where it is equally wrong because it fails to account for a very important fact:
ABSCENCE OF ANY EVIDENCE (EVEN CLINICAL) IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSCENCE.
I disagree with a great deal of this.

Medical research apart from purely economic concerns, which are not irrelevant, is about finding the best possible ways of determining true outcomes with reliable information out of noisy messy data. This is very hard to do. And there are lots of different ways to try to do this, each which produces different types and qualities of data, some of which are more reliable than others. And it really matters, peoples lives depend on getting it right.

In general the highest possible quality of data that exists in medicine is a placebo ( or alternate drug ) controlled , double blind, prospective clinical trial. Where neither the researcher or the subjects knows if they are getting the drug or placebo. This matters as placebo responses can be astonishing, for example placebo morphine in acute severe pain works, not as well as actual morphine, but far better than anyone would guess. And researcher bias matters as well. You can go as far as triple blinding so the data is randomised so even the data analysis is blind but this is not very common. The patients in the two groups need to be selected to match as closely as possible. And then the drugs are given and you find out what happens, analyse the results and determine if your new drug or other treatment worked or not and apply statistical methods to determine how likely it is to be a true effect or a chance effect. The larger the number of patients and the longer the time usually result in higher quality data. The amount of thought , time , and evolution of this process is significant, gradually over time more and more flaws in the process have been found and removed, and in general modern studies have fewer methodological flaws

The other method is to gather up all those controlled trials and add up the results to make an effectively much bigger study or a meta analysis with systematic review. If the trials are similar enough then the quality of result from these can be even higher than the individual trials, but recently paper mills have been cranking these papers out by the millions which have highly variable quality, making it hard to determine which ones are the good ones.

Any drug that gets approved for human use in modern times has gone through these trials, and this process is as good as humans can get to absolute truth, where the data is noisy. So in general the results of this type of trial is as reliable as it is possible to get, and is considered accurate enough to bet peoples lives on. As that is usually exactly what is at stake.

So what is known from these types of trials is the gold standard of research, the results can be relied on , assuming they are interpreted by people with sufficient skill and knowledge. The problem is that these trials are narrow and have to be so they can control as many variables as possible to make the information trustable. But often they do not answer all the questions or the results might not apply outside that narrow context, and often clinical decisions need to be made anyway without having that information. And sometimes they are later proven to be wrong, a study that has very good statistical evidence of only a 1% chance that the results are from chance is still going to be wrong 1% of the time. But this is as good as it gets.

There is a huge number of other methods of obtaining information relating to health outside of that type of trial, with varying degrees of trust that can be obtained from the results.

Population based studies do provide information, but they usually do not provide evidence that qualifies as proof of causation of illness or that a particular treatment will work. There are many examples of prospective controlled clinical trials that showed results different to those expected from population based studies. The current best quality information that exists on diet and health is that the mediteranean diet or similar variants, are associated with the lowest health risks. I am not expert enough to explain the processes used in these more recent studies.

Empirical research is in general at the other end of that scale in terms of trustability, as in can it be proven to be true or as close as we can get to that. An observers experience of a treatment of a patient is a valid experience and is true for them as is the patients experience of that treatment. The problem is whether that data can be reliably applied to others. Common sense would say yes. But there are confounding variables here that the clinical trials try so hard to avoid. Placebo responses to start, either from the patients end or the observers end. The patient or disease process itself may be responding in this case in an atypical fashion. Were I an expert in the philosophy of science I am sure I could add many more here.

In general empirical evidence is not useless, and all doctors use it and rely on it, and repeated evidence over time does make it more reliable, but medical therapies based on it do include things like blood letting that were used for thousands of years, so it can most certainly provide incorrect or untrue information. And in general is not considered to be good enough quality evidence to bet peoples lives on, unless there are no better options.
 

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