Starting from scratch after major weight loss best route to build muscle?

[TopLad]

38M. Haven’t trained in years. 6 foot 2 200 lbs exact





I was more overweight and recently dropped a significant amount of weight (close to goal now) using retatrutide. The issue is I didn’t have much muscle to begin with, so now I look kind of “skinny fat” with a pretty blank slate body composition.

I’m about to start lifting and actually build a routine from scratch. Diet is under control, planning to increase protein and calories gradually.

Where I’m stuck is which peptide route to go, i’ve reviewed posts here and elsewhere just not sure should I consider:

CJC + Ipamorelin


Tesamorelin


Or anything else people think actually makes sense at this stage

Goal is simple: add lean muscle and not screw up the progress I’ve made.


For someone basically starting from zero muscle-wise after weight loss, what would you do?

 

[DunningKruger]

Athletic, middle-aged female here. I preferred Tesa. When I used Ipa (even with Reta), it drastically increased my hunger signalling due to it working through the ghrelin pathway. I had better strength gains with Tesa while losing stubborn belly fat, even when I wasn't training as hard. If I hit my protein goal of 100-120g/ protein daily (tiny woman) I would see both hypertrophy and strength gains regardless of training frequency and intensity. It was worth the extra money.

When I used IPA (because I was being a cheap bastard), I started seeing the issues that come with GH analogues, carpal tunnel, other tendon injuries that wouldn't heal with BPC/TB, parasthesia of both arms/hands every single morning, and edema if I missed a day due to travel. I never saw any of those side effects on Tesa.

Why increase protein gradually? The potential of the runs from not being used to taking in the intake?💩

If I were starting from 0, I would start slow, because those tendons will need time to catch up to the strength gains you'll see with your muscles. When you feel like you can increase the weight, don't, have the discipline to hold there for a few weeks, despite how easy it seems.

 

[gusterbuster]

I'm going to say go straight hgh. Usually cheaper than tesa these days and we know it works. 2iu puts most people at the upper range.

Expect a few lbs of water retention which ever route you go.

And keep expectations realistic. None will grow any meaningful amount of muscle on its own. At most keeps muscles looking slightly fuller. The effects are subtle and discreet. Slightly improved recover, strengthening of connective tissue, etc. Lipolysis is pretty overrated. Yes has small impact but cheaper and more aggressive ways to obtain that.

 

[woundcarping]

For someone basically starting from zero muscle-wise after weight loss, what would you do?

I'd do blood work to look at testosterone and IGF-1 levels at least, before deciding what needs to be added to resistance training.

 

[ltjltj]

I'd do blood work to look at testosterone and IGF-1 levels at least, before deciding what needs to be added to resistance training.

100% agreed. Start your lifting program first, get that going. Hard work is a key part of this regardless. At 38 unless you have a negative IGF-1 z-score I'd probably leave the GH options alone (Tesa was awful for me, I tried because I had a negative z-score at 44). Similarly with going down the path of exogenous Test, that's a lifetime commitment once you get going and not one to be taken lightly.

You're just starting, focus on the hard work and routine first (plus eating well which it sounds like you will, and getting good high quality sleep).

Also as someone just staring you have piles of each gains to make - newbie gains are a real thing and you should make easy progress for quite a while.

 

[TopLad]

Athletic, middle-aged female here. I preferred Tesa. When I used Ipa (even with Reta), it drastically increased my hunger signalling due to it working through the ghrelin pathway. I had better strength gains with Tesa while losing stubborn belly fat, even when I wasn't training as hard. If I hit my protein goal of 100-120g/ protein daily (tiny woman) I would see both hypertrophy and strength gains regardless of training frequency and intensity. It was worth the extra money.

When I used IPA (because I was being a cheap bastard), I started seeing the issues that come with GH analogues, carpal tunnel, other tendon injuries that wouldn't heal with BPC/TB, parasthesia of both arms/hands every single morning, and edema if I missed a day due to travel. I never saw any of those side effects on Tesa.

Why increase protein gradually? The potential of the runs from not being used to taking in the intake?💩

If I were starting from 0, I would start slow, because those tendons will need time to catch up to the strength gains you'll see with your muscles. When you feel like you can increase the weight, don't, have the discipline to hold there for a few weeks, despite how easy it seems.

I appreciate your response! Who has the other compound not the tess would give it to me for free that’s why I was considering. I appreciate your advice i’m leaning towards the tess for sure

 

[woundcarping]

100% agreed. Start your lifting program first, get that going. Hard work is a key part of this regardless. At 38 unless you have a negative IGF-1 z-score I'd probably leave the GH options alone (Tesa was awful for me, I tried because I had a negative z-score at 44). Similarly with going down the path of exogenous Test, that's a lifetime commitment once you get going and not one to be taken lightly.

You're just starting, focus on the hard work and routine first (plus eating well which it sounds like you will, and getting good high quality sleep).

Also as someone just staring you have piles of each gains to make - newbie gains are a real thing and you should make easy progress for quite a while.

I mean... I would get bloodwork first since it's easy and quickly quantifies variables instead of having to wonder. There's no advantage I see from waiting.

I've been hypogonadal for years, meaningfully started TRT this year... for dropping a good bit of weight while maintaining lean mass it made sense. Also should be helpful for putting on muscle when I get done cutting.

My baseline IGF1 Z is fairly strong at +1.4, so while I have Ipa and Tesa, they're on the back burner until conditions suggest a bigger benefit.

 

[ltjltj]

I mean... I would get bloodwork first since it's easy and quickly quantifies variables instead of having to wonder. There's no advantage I see from waiting.

I've been hypogonadal for years, meaningfully started TRT this year... for dropping a good bit of weight while maintaining lean mass it made sense. Also should be helpful for putting on muscle when I get done cutting.

My baseline IGF1 Z is fairly strong at +1.4, so while I have Ipa and Tesa, they're on the back burner until conditions suggest a bigger benefit.

Sure. I agree with getting the bloodwork, but also they should just start working out! Certainly they shouldn't be taking GH or Test without the lab results.

 

[woundcarping]

Sure. I agree with getting the bloodwork, but also they should just start working out! Certainly they shouldn't be taking GH or Test without the lab results.

I agree there's no downside to starting to lift. My thought was the way my brain works, I'd not want to think about the what ifs of my biology hampering my physical endeavors. Also, TRT has been good for me, and secretagogues aren't expected to be particularly helpful at this point in my journey.

 

[Smiter]

I have seen a lot of people here worry about high IGF-1 levels. Why is that?

 

[woundcarping]

I have seen a lot of people here worry about high IGF-1 levels. Why is that?

Acromegaly on the high side, for the low side:
"High IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor 1) levels typically indicate excessive growth hormone (GH) production, most commonly caused by a pituitary tumor, resulting in a condition called acromegaly. Problems associated with high IGF-1 include abnormal growth of organs and bones (especially in hands, feet, and face), severe fatigue, hypertension, joint pain, sleep apnea, diabetes, and increased risk of certain cancers. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]"

 

[ltjltj]

I agree there's no downside to starting to lift. My thought was the way my brain works, I'd not want to think about the what ifs of my biology hampering my physical endeavors. Also, TRT has been good for me, and secretagogues aren't expected to be particularly helpful at this point in my journey.

I'd been lifting for 4 years or so, finally got some lab tests done. Test and related hormones were all perfectly reasonable (middle of ranges, I'm not going exogenous at that point), IGF-1 was slightly negative z-score. I tried Tesa but had horrible impact on sleep and HRV so discontinued after 3 weeks.

 

[ltjltj]

I have seen a lot of people here worry about high IGF-1 levels. Why is that?

Inversely correlated with longevity, higher cancer risk, acromegaly, etc... Don't push it to supra-physical levels.

 

[Smiter]

Inversely correlated with longevity, higher cancer risk, acromegaly, etc... Don't push it to supra-physical levels.

Aah, ok, so it is as I expected. The same old anti-mTor targeting for longevity and the high amounts=Acromegaly organ growth like Andre the Giant. Same with the tumor thing.

High IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor 1) levels typically indicate excessive growth hormone (GH) production, most commonly caused by a pituitary tumor, resulting in a condition called acromegaly. Problems associated with high IGF-1 include abnormal growth of organs and bones (especially in hands, feet, and face), severe fatigue, hypertension, joint pain, sleep apnea, diabetes, and increased risk of certain cancers

Yeah, that tracks. If the IGF high levels are due to high GH levels, all those sugar related issues, edema, etc., should be put to somatotropin, right? I've seen users using IGF-1 DES for spot injections for sensational effects. Along with Follistatin, the effects are surreal. The 30min half-life of DES, and the even more superior PEG MGF, makes it uber-beneficial, right? at least compared to any GH or secretagogues?

 

[woundcarping]

Yeah, that tracks. If the IGF high levels are due to high GH levels, all those sugar related issues, edema, etc., should be put to somatotropin, right? I've seen users using IGF-1 DES for spot injections for sensational effects. Along with Follistatin, the effects are surreal. The 30min half-life of DES, and the even more superior PEG MGF, makes it uber-beneficial, right? at least compared to any GH or secretagogues?

That is entirely out of my current depth of knowledge.

 

[Smiter]

That is entirely out of my current depth of knowledge.

Okay, I'm knackered with the flu but I will try. Somatomedin C or IGF-1 is a protein-hormone, governed normally by somatotropin aka GH. Here is a look at the average levels of IGF based on age.

• 16–24 years: \(182–780\text{ ng/mL}\)
• 25–39 years: \(114–492\text{ ng/mL}\)
• 40–54 years: \(90–360\text{ ng/mL}\)
• 55+ years: \(71–290\text{ ng/mL}\)

Now while high levels of IGF are ASSOCIATED with cancer, acromegaly, etc., low levels are associated with cardiovascular disease and mortality. Additionally, low levels of IGF, is clearly connected to sarcopenia or aging related muscle loss. In fact, the main reason Testosterone or AAS leads to muscle gain is because of IGF activity. Now, if someone already has a cancerous tumor in them, long-lasting IGF will cause proliferation. But, something like IGF DES which lasts only for 30 minutes, if injected to a muscle that has been exercised, elevates the muscle protein synthesis activity, without touching GH levels, sugar levels, etc.
Moreover, PEG-MGF treats sarcopenia, cardiac muscle damage, nerve damage,strengthening joints and tendons, AND ENABLES STEM CELL PROLIFERATION.

 

[5byfive]

Pick up the big, heavy round circles. Repeatedly. Consistently. That is the 99% answer. Peptides will have a marginal effect at best.

 

[Smiter]

38M. Haven’t trained in years. 6 foot 2 200 lbs exact





I was more overweight and recently dropped a significant amount of weight (close to goal now) using retatrutide. The issue is I didn’t have much muscle to begin with, so now I look kind of “skinny fat” with a pretty blank slate body composition.

I’m about to start lifting and actually build a routine from scratch. Diet is under control, planning to increase protein and calories gradually.

Where I’m stuck is which peptide route to go, i’ve reviewed posts here and elsewhere just not sure should I consider:

CJC + Ipamorelin


Tesamorelin


Or anything else people think actually makes sense at this stage

Goal is simple: add lean muscle and not screw up the progress I’ve made.


For someone basically starting from zero muscle-wise after weight loss, what would you do?

Consume creatine, glutamine, and 30 grams of collagen, with hyaluronic acid and vitamin C, and focus on tendon strengthening exercise protocols for the first 6 weeks. The massive boost to long-term gains is absolutely VITAL.

 

[TopLad]

I'm going to say go straight hgh. Usually cheaper than tesa these days and we know it works. 2iu puts most people at the upper range.

Expect a few lbs of water retention which ever route you go.

And keep expectations realistic. None will grow any meaningful amount of muscle on its own. At most keeps muscles looking slightly fuller. The effects are subtle and discreet. Slightly improved recover, strengthening of connective tissue, etc. Lipolysis is pretty overrated. Yes has small impact but cheaper and more aggressive ways to obtain that.

I kind of want to avoid it, I had heart problems in the past (enlarged heart high blood pressure etc) and it scares me. I figure if my body naturally produced more with a little poke it would be better but what do i know lol. I’m going to do some more research but appreciate the suggestion.

 

[Smiter]

I kind of want to avoid it, I had heart problems in the past (enlarged heart high blood pressure etc) and it scares me. I figure if my body naturally produced more with a little poke it would be better but what do i know lol. I’m going to do some more research but appreciate the suggestion.

I, too, want to avoid GH at all costs. The sides are so tacky. But my main reasoning is that most of the positives of GH can be obtained by other stuff, so logically, it would make sense to use them instead of GH, to avoid the negative sides. I had high BP and diabetes in the past so I really dont wanna mess with that.

 

[TopLad]

I'd do blood work to look at testosterone and IGF-1 levels at least, before deciding what needs to be added to resistance training.

Good point I saw a website where I believe you pay a membership and the blood work is pretty cheap. It’s 6 a decade since I had any done, pretty scared TBH lol

 

[gusterbuster]

Fitnomics. 75 bucks for 3 months and igf1 test was like 30 bucks.

Btw the for blood pressure and left ventricular hypertrophy, telmisartan with nebivolol is the go to in the anabolic world

 

[TopLad]

100% agreed. Start your lifting program first, get that going. Hard work is a key part of this regardless. At 38 unless you have a negative IGF-1 z-score I'd probably leave the GH options alone (Tesa was awful for me, I tried because I had a negative z-score at 44). Similarly with going down the path of exogenous Test, that's a lifetime commitment once you get going and not one to be taken lightly.

You're just starting, focus on the hard work and routine first (plus eating well which it sounds like you will, and getting good high quality sleep).

Also as someone just staring you have piles of each gains to make - newbie gains are a real thing and you should make easy progress for quite a while.

Lol newbie gains will definitely be welcomed. sleep is tough for me which is why i figured cjc would help with that based on what I read. But yes, once I get to my final goal id be pretty low body fat but no muscles so I doubt i’ll have much of an ab shape but once Im there im going to have to start a routine that I definitely do and don’t look forward to 😂

 

[ltjltj]

Lol newbie gains will definitely be welcomed. sleep is tough for me which is why i figured cjc would help with that based on what I read. But yes, once I get to my final goal id be pretty low body fat but no muscles so I doubt i’ll have much of an ab shape but once Im there im going to have to start a routine that I definitely do and don’t look forward to 😂

Just be aware the GH segretagogues can be great or awful for sleep, it's highly variable. They're awful for me to the degree I can't take them. Also, and again, don't try to increase IGF-1/GH until you know where you are. Goodlabs is also very cheap.

 

[mrmors]

If your main goal is to add muscle, peptides aren't really going to help you.

First thing you need to do is do a consistent amount of resistance training, and upto a weight that fatigues you, not just going through the motions of lifting stupid light weights with no struggle.

Next thing is to eat 0.75-1g of protein for every pound of bodyweight you are.

The above 2 are the basics, not optional.

Next up you you could look at testosterone, creatine.

Finally, for people wanting to be bodybuilders or elite athletes, you'd be looking Anabolics and HGH.

 

[woundcarping]

Next thing is to eat 1g of protein for every pound of bodyweight you are…

Or realistically for building, .7-1g/lb of body weight, or ~1gr/lb of lean body mass.

 

[bogardbilla]

Just be aware the GH segretagogues can be great or awful for sleep, it's highly variable.

This is so very true. I'm on Tesa+Ipa and have been having the deepest most refreshing sleep each and every night, yet I read this thread and many people seem to have it quite the opposite!

 

[TopLad]

If your main goal is to add muscle, peptides aren't really going to help you.

First thing you need to do is do a consistent amount of resistance training, and upto a weight that fatigues you, not just going through the motions of lifting stupid light weights with no struggle.

Next thing is to eat 0.75-1g of protein for every pound of bodyweight you are.

The above 2 are the basics, not optional.

Next up you you could look at testosterone, creatine.

Finally, for people wanting to be bodybuilders or elite athletes, you'd be looking Anabolics and HGH.

Definitely don’t want to be a body builder just slim with some muscle lol I appreciate your response. Yeah creatine actually sounds like a good idea. with this reta it’s impossible to eat that much protein i’m going to have to drink it instead lol

 

[yrrdead]

Holy heck, sometimes this forum, I guess if you are a hammer every thing looks like a nail. If you haven't been training , don't worry about peps or supplements or any of that shit.

You need TUB(time under bar) that's it. Don't get sucked into the "I need a peptide/supp to do anything". It is an optimization trap. I guess phones/algos feed this consumption based problem

Build some good training habits. Really grind on the the basics of your core lifts. Start building that mind muscle connection. Start really feeling your muscles contract and relax on the rep.

That's what you need.

 

[TopLad]

Just be aware the GH segretagogues can be great or awful for sleep, it's highly variable. They're awful for me to the degree I can't take them. Also, and again, don't try to increase IGF-1/GH until you know where you are. Goodlabs is also very cheap.

thx!

Holy heck, sometimes this forum, I guess if you are a hammer every thing looks like a nail. If you haven't been training , don't worry about peps or supplements or any of that shit.

You need TUB(time under bar) that's it. Don't get sucked into the "I need a peptide/supp to do anything". It is an optimization trap. I guess phones/algos feed this consumption based problem

Build some good training habits. Really grind on the the basics of your core lifts. Start building that mind muscle connection. Start really feeling your muscles contract and relax on the rep.

That's what you need.

As a novice I am certain you are 100% right. I was just thinking this would help me see results/feel them faster