Tirz dosage equivalent of Sema .5 ?
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dionysos
GLP-1 Specialist
Tirzepatide has far less appetite suppression than Semaglutide.
I can only speak to transitioning from the maximum dosage.
For me it required more than 10mg of Tirz to equal 2.5mg of Semaglutide.
In the end I transitioned again to 10mg of Retatrutide which was more satisfactory.
I know you know that there is really no formulaic answer to this 🙂 It's not apples to apples -- it's more like apples to apples+oranges, only the apples have been modified a bit, lol. Anyway! I can't even begin to answer your actual question, but my personal research approach was *not* to switch over, but rather to add a modest dose of Tirz, for example 2.5 mg, whilst reducing the dose of Sema, for example take it down to .25 mg. And then observe the effects on key factors: appetite suppression, food noise, energy levels, side effects ... oh, and yeah, weight 😉 And then of course -- keep tinkering! My own personal mad scientist approach has always been less of a "protocol" and more of a "what seems needed at this time" approach. Which for me is one of the great joys of research peptides vs those damned branded pens or little vials from compound pharmacies that tell people how much to take and how often to take it. Anyway, wishing you all the best success whichever way you go!
dionysos
GLP-1 Specialist
@Garbo
Your approach is very much in accord with my own - See For Your Self.
My kinda generic response is a contra-reaction to day-after-day reading hyperbolic fanboi-influencers claiming extreme performance advantages for one or another new peptide/stack/microdose fantasy protocol.
Clearly that isn't you, and, I would be very pleased to hear the outcome of your tinkering 🙂
Strength to your (researcher) arm!
Your approach is very much in accord with my own - See For Your Self.
My kinda generic response is a contra-reaction to day-after-day reading hyperbolic fanboi-influencers claiming extreme performance advantages for one or another new peptide/stack/microdose fantasy protocol.
Clearly that isn't you, and, I would be very pleased to hear the outcome of your tinkering 🙂
Strength to your (researcher) arm!
It’s not for me I have a friend who has been on Ozempic at .5 and that’s all that the VA will give them. They want to try tirz instead because Ozempic stopped working for them quite a while back and they cannot get the VA doctor to listen. All they did was give him massive amounts of metformin in addition to the Ozempic and he said he is sh-tting 10 to 12 times a day and every day that goes by he feels worse and worse. He knows there are advocates that he could contact, etc. but he’s old enough to find it easier to try to find a solution on his own.
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Good lord that's awful and I'm glad he has a friend like you. Now that I understand the specifics, I will venture a suggestion, just food for thought really. I am assuming that your friend is going to completely stop or has stopped taking the Ozempic. but because the semaglutide will be in his system a while longer, and mostly because he had such terrible GI side effects, my approach would be to start Tirz at no higher than the clinical protocol suggests, which is 2.5 mg. weekly, or some microdosing equivalent. And maybe even lower, until he starts feeling much better. Then, see how it goes. If he starts experiencing the beneficial effects without the "side" effects, he'll be on his way to a kinder, gentler experience. [And if it were me, I would be sure to track all doses in a plotter spreadsheet, so I could "see" how much was in my system in a given day/week when I was feeling "in the zone." or super tired, etc. Thus I'd be well equipped to make changes like increasing or decreasing dose and frequency.] And once he's on his way, he'll become more surefooted about little adjustments or big leaps he is ready to make. I wish him great relief and future success, and trust that will happen with you as a guide. None of us can do it without help. I don't have it in "real" life ... but the generosity of strangers sharing information online has enabled myself and so many others to change our lives.
dionysos
GLP-1 Specialist
Blessings for helping a friend!
Tirz is very good for many and is what most people consider as a successor to Semaglutide.
It also has somewhat lower side effects generally than Sema does.
Certainly it is more expensive by 3X at the higher dosages likely needed for appetite suppression.
In my continuing lifetime role as Devil's Advocate 😈 may I suggest an alternate view?
At .50mg Semaglutide is not considered a "therapeutic dose" for weight loss.
It is likely, I would say PROBABALE, that your friend would find it inadequate for that purpose.
Consider suggesting that they buy a single 10mg vial of Semaglutide and continue the standard Wegovy titration protocol: increase to 1mg weekly for 4 weeks, then 1.7mg etc
A single 10mg vial will very economically net 7 weeks of treatment at properly therapeutic dose levels. THEN a better informed choice can be made about continuing Sema or transitioning to Tirzepatide. My experience is that the grass is not always greener, and, it is MUCH more expensive grass!
Dennis
Tirz is very good for many and is what most people consider as a successor to Semaglutide.
It also has somewhat lower side effects generally than Sema does.
Certainly it is more expensive by 3X at the higher dosages likely needed for appetite suppression.
In my continuing lifetime role as Devil's Advocate 😈 may I suggest an alternate view?
At .50mg Semaglutide is not considered a "therapeutic dose" for weight loss.
It is likely, I would say PROBABALE, that your friend would find it inadequate for that purpose.
Consider suggesting that they buy a single 10mg vial of Semaglutide and continue the standard Wegovy titration protocol: increase to 1mg weekly for 4 weeks, then 1.7mg etc
A single 10mg vial will very economically net 7 weeks of treatment at properly therapeutic dose levels. THEN a better informed choice can be made about continuing Sema or transitioning to Tirzepatide. My experience is that the grass is not always greener, and, it is MUCH more expensive grass!
Dennis
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I am not a fan of any of the alleged "equivalency" charts/calculations out there because while similar, they are still different meds targeting the GLP-1 receptors, well, differently (and also have different half-lives).
Every individual's body chemistry is likely to respond differently to changing between TZ and SG (or vice-versa) than the next person so ultimately the best bet IMHO is for people changing to simply start over at the lowest dose and just escalate up the titration ladder more rapidly to find the lowest effective dose for themselves. I've seen several people who have stalled out on the max dose of 15mg TZ switch to SG starting with the max 2.4mg dose and almost every one of them ends up terribly sick for several days as a result. Switching from SG to TZ seems to be a little less problematic for people, but given that TZ is more expensive it still seems more sensible to start at the beginning and work upwards to find the lowest effective dose.
Every individual's body chemistry is likely to respond differently to changing between TZ and SG (or vice-versa) than the next person so ultimately the best bet IMHO is for people changing to simply start over at the lowest dose and just escalate up the titration ladder more rapidly to find the lowest effective dose for themselves. I've seen several people who have stalled out on the max dose of 15mg TZ switch to SG starting with the max 2.4mg dose and almost every one of them ends up terribly sick for several days as a result. Switching from SG to TZ seems to be a little less problematic for people, but given that TZ is more expensive it still seems more sensible to start at the beginning and work upwards to find the lowest effective dose.
Nah, not even close. Sema is a lot stronger in appetite suppression. Tirz only beats it in weight loss.
I think 4-5mg tirz is equivalent to 0.5mg sema.
dionysos
GLP-1 Specialist
TOTALLY agree with these approaches!
Broken Chef
GLP-1 Specialist
This is confusing to me. I do realize the different mechanisms of action for the different peptides, but, for me anyhow, I don't see how NOT having my appetite suppressed would equate to MORE weight loss. Does it boost your metabolism so much that even eating more you lose weight? I guess this is why some stack these together, top get both benefits... but I thought T was just basically S with a 3rd mechanism of action - so to speak, in terms of mechanisms of action... and that, for example, adding cagri gives sema that 3rd mechanism.
I'm very curious because I know that sema will stall at some point, so I'm trying to put together a plan for when that happens.
That's some good & logic argument, Chef!
Yes, I gave him some of mine in 2.5 preloaded needles so he could just start easily. He gave up the Metformin a couple of weeks ago because it was making him so sick he stopped his Ozempic and started the Tz on his normal Ozempic shot day. He isn’t having any side effects. He asked me if I’m sure what I gave him is actually real.😂
I'm so glad you updated us 🫶
0.5mg Sema is too low dose, except you are just starting out
That is what I did. I gave him four, 2.5 mg syringes so he could start easily. If he decides to stay on it, he’ll get to load his own needles.😂
I’m hoping to be back with a success story and we know the VA isn’t gonna give him anything besides Ozempic, but he’s willing to buy Tz if it makes him feel better than what he’s on now we’ve also discussed if he has success on this, he can go back to his VA doctor and tell them he needs a higher dose of Ozempic to get results. Either way, he’s a winner.
MarisWinter
GLP-1 Enthusiast
This is brilliant! The economics of all this I REALLY care about, because I literally know no NO-ONE who can afford this. I can, but my world can’t. I want to understand this and get people where they need to go. Can’t kill an old social worker.
dionysos
GLP-1 Specialist
Higher dosage Tirzepatide/ Retarutide is where the US sourced research peptides cannot effectively compete with the best of the compounding pharmacies.
Six to eight months ago it was easy as the CPs were charging $700-800 per month per person for their compounds. Now the best of them are at $300 or less for any dosage.
They are still something of a ripoff at 2.5-5.0mg per week but are certainly competitive at 7.5mg and above.
Not everyone is ready to move from CPs to CHINESE research peptides 😱
to be sure! And that would be necessary to save money vs the best compounders.
Six to eight months ago it was easy as the CPs were charging $700-800 per month per person for their compounds. Now the best of them are at $300 or less for any dosage.
They are still something of a ripoff at 2.5-5.0mg per week but are certainly competitive at 7.5mg and above.
Not everyone is ready to move from CPs to CHINESE research peptides 😱
to be sure! And that would be necessary to save money vs the best compounders.
Even CPs are sourcing their peptides from China. There is no difference.
yes, perhaps there is just a more quality control
zpped
GLP-1 Specialist
Sema is glp1
Tirz is a different glp1 and gip
Reta is Tirz+glucagen
Cagri is amylin
The glp1 in tirz activates much weaker than the one in Sema (which is why the dosage is 7-10 times higher)
Tirz doesn't suppress appetite as much but that doesn't mean the subject eats more. They feel hungry, and then they feel full quickly.
its actually much more complex and it is absolutely not only about "eating less"
some reading, for example, is here:
Frontiers | GLP−1 receptor agonists for the treatment of obesity: Role as a promising approach
Obesity is a complex disease characterized by excessive fat accumulation which is caused by genetic, environmental and other factors. In recent years, there ...
www.frontiersin.org
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dionysos
GLP-1 Specialist
@HB22
Of course they are! That is not what we are talking about.
The discussion is about COST not differences in the supplied medication.
zpped
GLP-1 Specialist
I wasn't trying to imply it was only "eating less", just that even though there is less appetite suppression doesn't mean they are are eating more. Obviously what I wrote is extremely simplified.its actually much more complex and it is absolutely not only about "eating less"
some reading, for example, is here:
Frontiers | GLP−1 receptor agonists for the treatment of obesity: Role as a promising approach
Obesity is a complex disease characterized by excessive fat accumulation which is caused by genetic, environmental and other factors. In recent years, there ...
YoYoFat
GLP-1 Specialist
What about food noise or other cravings? Are they equal?
Derby
New Member
That seems to be very idiosyncratic. Some people swear that semaglutide is far superior, but I've also heard many success stories with tirzepatide. Food noise was always a very minor issue for me, but what little I had was resolved with 2mg 2x/week of tirzepatide.
YoYoFat
GLP-1 Specialist
The shitting of the pants is from the Metformin. No question. It’s almost impossible to avoid, unless on extended release. Most just prescribe immediate release. See if he can get on ER.
YoYoFat
GLP-1 Specialist
The suppression of food noise has been life changing for my RS.
It’s also suppressed other obsessive behaviors, like reckless shopping. And ADHD symptoms have improved.
