Trying to parse all the data on HGH, TRT and secretagogues

[fatjacked]

As the title says, I have been reading up quite a bit on the different options. A little background - I am a male, early 40's, done having kids. Approaching my goal weight with tirz and thinking about different options for recomp / maintenance and general health going forward. I lift heavy 3-4 times per week, play basketball and jog for cardio, doing reasonably well with my fitness and health goals. Have a history of high cholesterol but currently well controlled on a low dose statin. I have an appointment in a few weeks with a new PCP and will be requesting some labs etc.

Last set of labs was in October and looked like this:

Test - 229
Free Test - 5.3
FSH - 4.1
LH - 3.4
IGF-1 178 (Z score not provided, but from what I can tell this puts me very close to mean for my age)

My former doc (who is not shy about the benefits of TRT and says he is on it himself) told me I could obviously consider treatment, but did not want to rush into it given my age and relative lack of symptoms, and thought my levels might bounce back a bit with weight loss etc. This was all right before I started tirz. I do sometimes feel like I am getting more brain fog / difficulty focusing, but libido, sleep, etc. are all fine as of now.

Goal-wise, I am not looking to add a ton of muscle. Would like to lean out, focus on recovery / prevent orthopedic and joint problems, and not do anything terribly risky in terms of longevity or cancer.

So my questions are - assuming my test is still below 300 in the next round of labs:

1. If you were going to start just one treatment (TRT, HGH or GHRH/secretagogue) first, which would it be and why?
2. For someone with my goals (more focused on gradual recomp / recovery / getting lean than adding bulk) is the risk of HGH worth running it over something like CJC/IPA? I do not plan to get on gear at any point, the options listed above are pretty much the menu for me in one combo or another. I also wonder if just starting test on its own will do as much or more for me, given I am already active and don't have major complaints.
3. For someone concerned about the risks of long-term / higher dose HGH, is there benefit to running low dose / short cycles just for recomp / fat loss? Something like 1-2 iu for 4-6 weeks once or twice a year?

Would appreciate any other comments on how to think through the TRT/HGH/GHRH axis of options generally as well.

 

[CNCCurrency]

3. For someone concerned about the risks of long-term / higher dose HGH, is there benefit to running low dose / short cycles just for recomp / fat loss? Something like 1-2 iu for 4-6 weeks once or twice a year?

Don't think in this short of time the results will be evident.

 

[CNCCurrency]

As the title says, I have been reading up quite a bit on the different options. A little background - I am a male, early 40's, done having kids. Approaching my goal weight with tirz and thinking about different options for recomp / maintenance and general health going forward. I lift heavy 3-4 times per week, play basketball and jog for cardio, doing reasonably well with my fitness and health goals. Have a history of high cholesterol but currently well controlled on a low dose statin. I have an appointment in a few weeks with a new PCP and will be requesting some labs etc.

Last set of labs was in October and looked like this:

Test - 229
Free Test - 5.3
FSH - 4.1
LH - 3.4
IGF-1 178 (Z score not provided, but from what I can tell this puts me very close to mean for my age)

My former doc (who is not shy about the benefits of TRT and says he is on it himself) told me I could obviously consider treatment, but did not want to rush into it given my age and relative lack of symptoms, and thought my levels might bounce back a bit with weight loss etc. This was all right before I started tirz. I do sometimes feel like I am getting more brain fog / difficulty focusing, but libido, sleep, etc. are all fine as of now.

Goal-wise, I am not looking to add a ton of muscle. Would like to lean out, focus on recovery / prevent orthopedic and joint problems, and not do anything terribly risky in terms of longevity or cancer.

So my questions are - assuming my test is still below 300 in the next round of labs:

1. If you were going to start just one treatment (TRT, HGH or GHRH/secretagogue) first, which would it be and why?
2. For someone with my goals (more focused on gradual recomp / recovery / getting lean than adding bulk) is the risk of HGH worth running it over something like CJC/IPA? I do not plan to get on gear at any point, the options listed above are pretty much the menu for me in one combo or another. I also wonder if just starting test on its own will do as much or more for me, given I am already active and don't have major complaints.
3. For someone concerned about the risks of long-term / higher dose HGH, is there benefit to running low dose / short cycles just for recomp / fat loss? Something like 1-2 iu for 4-6 weeks once or twice a year?

Would appreciate any other comments on how to think through the TRT/HGH/GHRH axis of options generally as well.

Scroll down near the bottom and look at the projections/what to expect section

https://pep-pedia.org/peptides/hgh

 

[Cannonball72]

honest couple of thoughts.

You need to put on way more muscle than you think you want. Especially if your talking that you are naturally nearly hypogonadal and are considering test/hgh/secretogogues.

Since you’re producing low, consider Enclomophene mono therapy. Next step is test injections, the gold standard for a reason. Lowest effective dose. Two viable TRT interventions, frequently run together.

Test injections will help with any mood/emotion stuff that comes with low test, but on its own, not gonna a fix physique. I’m on test .36mg eod, enclomphene 25mg1x/wk, HCG 150iu 1x wk. no need for AIs, no skin problems, no hair loss. High test and free test numbers.

Re: HGH and/or secretegogues. They all work. The caveat, and back to the first paragraph, they are not magic. You need to do the work. These interventions work best when you are committed to a nutrition and fitness program. Otherwise, garbage in, garbage out.

At your age, secretogogues should be fine. HGH up to 4iu, 2-3IU generally ok for long runs. Get your blood work done and make your decision based on how much assistance you want. Do you want to max out your natural system or determine the specific level you want to carry. Secretegogues for the former, HGH for the latter. I’m 53 running tesa/ipa 6:1 blend 5/2, very happy with this.

Reta/Tirz and etc. are more like miracle peptides. Less dependent on the individual doing the work, but the outcome is still greatly influenced by a shift to quality nutrition and fitness.

All that said. Your actual question, TRT is the absolute foundation. Start here. Don’t rush into the rest, the time will come. But do TRT first and see how you respond. Once you’re settled, consider the next intervention.

I apologize if I misinterpreted anything. I don’t intend to come across as a know it all. But I’ve been through it and found what really works for me, and if you read the stories of people on this site, you would see a very common pattern to what I shared.

Make sure you get regular blood work.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

As the title says, I have been reading up quite a bit on the different options. A little background - I am a male, early 40's, done having kids. Approaching my goal weight with tirz and thinking about different options for recomp / maintenance and general health going forward. I lift heavy 3-4 times per week, play basketball and jog for cardio, doing reasonably well with my fitness and health goals. Have a history of high cholesterol but currently well controlled on a low dose statin. I have an appointment in a few weeks with a new PCP and will be requesting some labs etc.

Last set of labs was in October and looked like this:

Test - 229
Free Test - 5.3
FSH - 4.1
LH - 3.4
IGF-1 178 (Z score not provided, but from what I can tell this puts me very close to mean for my age)

Enclomiphime, or HCG first

With your FHS that low, your ledig cells are not getting the signal to ramp up production.

Zinc, if you're low in zinc your body can't make T

You said Tirz, when.you’re losing weight to quickly you go into starvation mode and you FSH signaling will be muted until you get back to a calorie surplus.

 

[alphaskunk65]

As the title says, I have been reading up quite a bit on the different options. A little background - I am a male, early 40's, done having kids. Approaching my goal weight with tirz and thinking about different options for recomp / maintenance and general health going forward. I lift heavy 3-4 times per week, play basketball and jog for cardio, doing reasonably well with my fitness and health goals. Have a history of high cholesterol but currently well controlled on a low dose statin. I have an appointment in a few weeks with a new PCP and will be requesting some labs etc.

Last set of labs was in October and looked like this:

Test - 229
Free Test - 5.3
FSH - 4.1
LH - 3.4
IGF-1 178 (Z score not provided, but from what I can tell this puts me very close to mean for my age)

My former doc (who is not shy about the benefits of TRT and says he is on it himself) told me I could obviously consider treatment, but did not want to rush into it given my age and relative lack of symptoms, and thought my levels might bounce back a bit with weight loss etc. This was all right before I started tirz. I do sometimes feel like I am getting more brain fog / difficulty focusing, but libido, sleep, etc. are all fine as of now.

Goal-wise, I am not looking to add a ton of muscle. Would like to lean out, focus on recovery / prevent orthopedic and joint problems, and not do anything terribly risky in terms of longevity or cancer.

So my questions are - assuming my test is still below 300 in the next round of labs:

1. If you were going to start just one treatment (TRT, HGH or GHRH/secretagogue) first, which would it be and why?
2. For someone with my goals (more focused on gradual recomp / recovery / getting lean than adding bulk) is the risk of HGH worth running it over something like CJC/IPA? I do not plan to get on gear at any point, the options listed above are pretty much the menu for me in one combo or another. I also wonder if just starting test on its own will do as much or more for me, given I am already active and don't have major complaints.
3. For someone concerned about the risks of long-term / higher dose HGH, is there benefit to running low dose / short cycles just for recomp / fat loss? Something like 1-2 iu for 4-6 weeks once or twice a year?

Would appreciate any other comments on how to think through the TRT/HGH/GHRH axis of options generally as well.

I started with TRT added Reta. Once my peps arrive I'm going to stack HGH secretagogues not somatropin . Klow on top of that for healing. Experienced people I refer too claim you can stack anything on Test. In correct amounts of course. That's just me.

 

[fatjacked]

Enclomiphime, or HCG first

With your FHS that low, your ledig cells are not getting the signal to ramp up production.

Zinc, if you're low in zinc your body can't make T

You said Tirz, when.you’re losing weight to quickly you go into starvation mode and you FSH signaling will be muted until you get back to a calorie surplus.

The numbers I posted are from before I started tirz, was in a surplus for sure at that point but was also much fatter. My understanding is both obesity and starvation can suppress FSH, not sure which is worse on that front.

I've been focused on preserving as much muscle as possible on tirz and kept the weight loss fairly gradual. Will find out in a few weeks how those levels changed as a result I guess.

 

[fatjacked]

You need to put on way more muscle than you think you want. Especially if your talking that you are naturally nearly hypogonadal and are considering test/hgh/secretogogues.

Since you’re producing low, consider Enclomophene mono therapy. Next step is test injections, the gold standard for a reason. Lowest effective dose. Two viable TRT interventions, frequently run together.

Test injections will help with any mood/emotion stuff that comes with low test, but on its own, not gonna a fix physique. I’m on test .36mg eod, enclomphene 25mg1x/wk, HCG 150iu 1x wk. no need for AIs, no skin problems, no hair loss. High test and free test numbers.

Re: HGH and/or secretegogues. They all work. The caveat, and back to the first paragraph, they are not magic. You need to do the work. These interventions work best when you are committed to a nutrition and fitness program. Otherwise, garbage in, garbage out.

Not sure why you keep implying that I'm not doing the work or don't want to. Thought I was pretty clear in my post - I have a really solid gym routine, I am very strong compared to general population, I was just also fat. Now that I'm bordering-on-not-fat and thinking about what maintenance looks like, I am looking into the options.

From what I have read regarding enclo vs. TRT, it sounds to me like there is a lot less long term safety data for enclo, it works but not as well, and I will be limited to gray market and self management, vs. hopefully getting TRT covered by my insurance. I also don't care about fertility anymore.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

The numbers I posted are from before I started tirz, was in a surplus for sure at that point but was also much fatter. My understanding is both obesity and starvation can suppress FSH, not sure which is worse on that front.

I've been focused on preserving as much muscle as possible on tirz and kept the weight loss fairly gradual. Will find out in a few weeks how those levels changed as a result I guess.

both affect your hormone production.

Enclomiphene or Hgc would raise your FHS and you would be able to measure what you could produce on your own.

Raising your T would also raise your IGF,

Optimize your T before first

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

Test injections will help with any mood/emotion stuff that comes with low test, but on its own, not gonna a fix physique. I’m on test .36mg eod, enclomphene 25mg1x/wk, HCG 150iu 1x wk. no need for AIs, no skin problems, no hair loss.

0.36mg is almost nothing

Did you mean 0.36 ml every other day?

 

[fatjacked]

both affect your hormone production.

Enclomiphene or Hgc would raise your FHS and you would be able to measure what you could produce on your own.

Raising your T would also raise your IGF,

Optimize your T before first

But IF I got to an acceptable level on enclo alone, I would still need to continue enclo indefinitely to maintain that production, right?