I’m trying to help a friend by introducing him to compound semaglutide. I found him a website with a good price and directed him to Amazon for accessories. He’s about 6 injections in and complaining that he’s unable to depress the plunger to dispense the medicine. I’ve had issues like this when Luer lock needles weren’t screwed on tight enough, but this is a one piece syringe. Any ideas what might be going on?
Unable to inject meds.
- Thread starter Rohjay
- Start date
stickfigure
GLP-1 Enthusiast
Most likely bent needle
Less likely stopper core plugged the needle
Less likely stopper core plugged the needle
nonyabizznez
GLP-1 Specialist
Is he sure he drew medication and the plunger isn't all the way depressed to begin with?
GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
Set him up with a pen. Once the cart is loaded the entire process is much easier and faster. Plus, all he has to do is dial the correct dosage.
When I have too much positive or negative pressure I find injecting a syringe without the needle will balance out. This venting effect allows me to try again by injecting equal air to my next withdraw. So i vent , then an example would be to inject .5 ml for a 50 unit dose. then extract my 50 units.
please let others comment on this, but it seems to work for me.
Good idea, I have a pen I never use.
I should add the syringes have been prefilled to the correct dose in order to avoid dosing errors.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
he's hitting a hard spot of fat or something else dense. try a different area.
damn, people need to do a little bit of experimentation themselves.
damn, people need to do a little bit of experimentation themselves.
GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
All the more reason to use a pen. Prefilling syringes is not a best practice from a sterility standpoint especially if the syringes will sit around for several weeks.
Are they stored in the freezer, as they should be? And if so, is the current-use syringe properly and fully defrosted?
I'd move it to the fridge 24 hours before use. And then pull the plunger back, then push to the proper dose until a bead forms at the needle tip, then jab.
TooBigtoFail
New Member
Are you explaining the problem properly? is he unable to draw from the vial, or unable to inject the dose into the skin? I would try a syringe while empty. Does the plunger glide well? how much pressure is required? There are a lot of subgrade supplies on Amazon. My Compounding pharma was providing a 1 piece Easy Touch 31 gauge 1ml, 8mm needle. Never had an issue. Still using after 9 months. Lyophilized vials are often under vacuum. Inject air in first, before you draw. Some stoppers are not formed properly, making it hard to draw sometimes. And welcome to the forum.
Why would they freeze reconstituted peps? That’s not good. It would cause cellular damage to the peptides and the expansion from the frozen liquid could damage the syringe.
nonyabizznez
GLP-1 Specialist
I agree although many weightloss clinics and spas included instructions to freeze their "compounded" GLPs. They might administer the first dose in clinic and send you home with the remaining filled syringes (with instructions to freeze) to get through your next monthly $$$ visit.
zpped
Moderator
Tirz freezes really well and comes back just fine at least once.
Peptides have cells???
And I'd think the plunger would push out a tiny bit if the alcohol-tinged water expanded very much.
On a “cellular level” would have probably been better wording. Freezing it can cause the drug to break down, lose efficacy and possibly make it unsafe.
There's no cellular level ... it's not a living thing.
For tirzepatide, the suspected negative effect of freezing on purity did not pan out in a Discord group study done by Janos "06-2024 - Multiple Multi-Pep frozen-reconstituted-multi-pep", which ran 4 freeze-thaw cycles and tested at start, midpoint and endpoint.
IMO, freezing reconstituted GLP-1s is fine in a sterile vial, and reasonably safe in a prefilled syringe if proper sanitary measures were undertaken.
Alright, dickhead. How about on a molecular level? Critiquing my vernacular doesn’t change the fact that freezing them fucks them up. You are encouraging dangerous behavior. Furthermore, if Jano was the whiz that you think he is, he would be working for Pfizer or the CDC. He wouldn’t be doing tests for chemicals from an underground lab. He is not exactly a pillar of the scientific community working out of a basement in the Czech Republic.
Last edited:
GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
Considering what he makes on each test and the sheer volume of business, I somehow I think Jano is probably doing ok working out his little underground lab.
The referenced Tirz test is N=1 data, but is pretty encouraging for Tirz (but not necessarily other peps) to be fine after a couple of freeze/thaw cycles.
After seeing the data I took a couple of vials of compound, that I will probably never use, and stuck them in my -20C freezer. They are from October and while freezing them may cause some degradation, it can't be worse than the vials sitting in the fridge for >6-12 months.
... kindly link to evidence of this
Who then do you rely on for purity and mass testing before injecting these same chemicals into your system?
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
i would be OK freezing reconstituted material. you just don't want to break glass. i guess i could do an experiment and see if the product is still effective after freezing.
i have some Pt141, oxytocin and tesa i could give a try.
i have some Pt141, oxytocin and tesa i could give a try.
GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
I think the peptide matters. Tirz had almost no loss after four freeze/thaw cycles. Epithalon was also tested and lost 9% after one cycle and 18% after four cycles.
I'm no scientist but these results might be related to the length of the peptide chain with shorter chains being less hearty than longer chains (like Tirz).
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
intuitively, i'd think the longer molecules would be more vulnerable.
triz is a big one 4800g/mole
FAQs | Ozempic® (semaglutide) injection 0.5 mg, 1 mg, or 2 mg
Find answers to frequently asked questions about Ozempic® (semaglutide) injection. Get answers about prescribing Ozempic®, patient resources, and storing the medication. Read Important Safety and Prescribing Information, including Boxed Warning.
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/health-GettyImages-2101441003-43b10ab4a68047148e0e920f1d7a2a9e.jpg)
Wait, Do You Actually Need to Refrigerate Ozempic?
Ozempic is an injectable weight loss medication that must be stored properly to ensure safety. New pens must be kept in the fridge until ready for use.
Last edited:
Thank you. Those are instructions, not scientific evidence of any sort.FAQs | Ozempic® (semaglutide) injection 0.5 mg, 1 mg, or 2 mg
Find answers to frequently asked questions about Ozempic® (semaglutide) injection. Get answers about prescribing Ozempic®, patient resources, and storing the medication. Read Important Safety and Prescribing Information, including Boxed Warning.www.novomedlink.com
And they're for the mechanical injector device (which everyone agrees shouldn't be frozen), but also subsequently incorporated in the Lilly Direct single-dose vials.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
the pharmacists are pretty committed to keeping it in the fridge.
I’m sure Jano is doing fine financially, but let’s call a spade a spade. He is doing tests for illicit substances and he is not an accomplished scientist who has been peer reviewed or published. If you look into him there are plenty of people discrediting him on MesoRX, Reddit, etc.
Freezing the peptides causes crystallization which can alter them on a molecular level, making them dangerous. Keeping liquid in the fridge is totally different. That’s just a risk of degradation and bacteria growth.
Last edited:
"Lyophilizer machines, also known as freeze dryers, can reach temperatures as low as -40°C to -80°C (-40°F to -112°F) for freezing the product, and condensers can reach -50°C to -105°C (-60°F to -180°F). "
While I believe the janoshik testing on freezing tirz, this post indicates you should be a bit more careful before you act as an authoritative source.
You'll notice there is a key word in your quote - dryers. Part of the lyophilization process involves creating a vacuum and drying out the vial as part of how it works. This is a key part of the process, otherwise they wouldn't need to use freeze dryers instead of just any other ultra-cold freezing method.
Why is it a key part of the process? Because it is known that "wet" freezing can damage the structure of many molecules - explicitly because of the crystallization AndyPanda is mentioning. While tirz in specific looks to be OK, we know that freezing/thawing HGH, for example, when it has moisture in the vial can and does cause damage, resulting in insoluble aggregates forming. Epitathlon was mentioned up thread. There are many many others as well.
Lyophilization is done under vacuum and it removes ice crystals through sublimation. Manufactures also use cryoprotectants to mitigate damage that are removed through the process. Additionally, during lyophilization the liquid freezes at controlled pace.
GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
Jano conducted the freeze/thaw test in accordance with the directions provided to him by the big group testing server. As I previously stated, this is an N=1 test but I would like to see more tests to confirm these results and would happily contribute to them, but this is the only test that I am aware of for Tirz.
I'm not sure why Lilly says not to freeze Mounjaro/Zepbound pens but I could see the freeze expansion process causing the pen to leak or the stopper to be forced out of the cartridge in these pens.
If he got the syringes from Amazon, that may be the problem. I normally order from a diff site, but was in a hurry. Ordered 2 boxes of my normal brand. First box felt and operated as normal. This second box has a distinctly different feel in my hand and the plunger requires so much more force. I mean, I have to use both hands once it’s filled and inserted to depress it.
So maybe he’s got a counterfeit box like mine. I knew it was a risk, it’s not the end of the world, and I was warned. I just won’t do it again.
keangkong
A Not So Fat Dude
Do you mean injecting the syringe without the plunger?
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
isn;t that glass in there?
That is correct, I also misunderstood the issue and the entire response was flawed.
Funny enough I noticed the second part the next morning, I just now recognize the "without the needle portion" so yes, vent without plunger or use a luer lock needle. my mistake
GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
It is, its very similar to the carts we use in our pens but has a needle affixed to it.
Mykrodot
New Member
As you can tell folks definitely have an opinion on this one. You are going to have to dig deep and decide what you are comfortable with. I would start with a Google search for “storage of reconstituted peptides freeze”, there is a lot of info out there. Best wishes.
noggin
New Member
How on earth do you inject a syringe without the needle
keangkong
A Not So Fat Dude
OP later clarified that to refer to injecting without the plunger. I had correctly guessed that plunger was what was intended, but only did so because I also inject the syringe without the plunger to eliminate any discrepancies in air pressure.
Little follow up: ordered from my normal place and the difference is NIGHT & DAY. The second box I got from amz was definitely fake. It was made of way cheaper material, the plunger would pop out with minimal pull, the needle wasn't as sharp as it should've been, and even the barrel felt/looked off (made of a frosted plastic).
So yea, if none of that matters and you're a boss at jabbing yourself with dull needles, go on with your bad self. However, if you need that Easy Touch comfort, skip Amazon and go for a diabetic supply place.
