Vendor Transparency in Group Buys

[Peptelligence]

I'm curious how you all feel about group buys where the organizer won't name the vendor.

• Quality and Accountability: While third-party testing is essential, it doesn't tell the whole story. The vendors' reputation on how their products are made, stored, and handled is just as important. Without knowing the vendor, we can't research their reputation. For me, that transparency is a critical part of the vetting process.
• The Spirit of Group Buys: The original purpose of a group buy is to leverage collective buying power for a better price. I've noticed a trend where organizers of anonymous buys add a significant markup for profit, which seems to undermine that core principle.

So, what's your take? Would you join a buy without knowing where the product is actually from? Am I being too cautious?

 

[peptideusername]

I'm curious how you all feel about group buys where the organizer won't name the vendor.

• Quality and Accountability: While third-party testing is essential, it doesn't tell the whole story. The vendors' reputation on how their products are made, stored, and handled is just as important. Without knowing the vendor, we can't research their reputation. For me, that transparency is a critical part of the vetting process.
• The Spirit of Group Buys: The original purpose of a group buy is to leverage collective buying power for a better price. I've noticed a trend where organizers of anonymous buys add a significant markup for profit, which seems to undermine that core principle.

So, what's your take? Would you join a buy without knowing where the product is actually from? Am I being too cautious?

No way in hell. I understand why it happens but won't pay to support such an endeavor.

 

[ZippityDooDah]

Folks need to delete the concept of group buys from their lexicon as it pertains to this hobby. The original couple buys were actual group buys for the most part, but since then "Group Buy" is just code for a vendor who isn't investing in branding, labeling, testing, etc.

Personally, I've never cared about where a "Group Buy" or any other vendor is getting their product as long as the vendor themselves has a good track record and backs up that product if issues arise.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

A group buy is a way of a group achieving a scale that gets them access to higher MOQ pricing as you point out @Peptelligence . If they’re hiding the suppler from you, this isn’t what is going on and you should walk away.

 

[YoYoFat]

Personally, I've never cared about where a "Group Buy" or any other vendor is getting their product as long as the vendor themselves has a good track record and backs up that product if issues arise.

That’s kinda the point of OP’s question. Some GB folks won’t tell you who their vendor is. And no, they aren’t the vendor themselves. Raven is an example. Sometime late last year, she hasn’t been willing to say who the vendor is for a particular buy, only that it’s the same as [some previous buy of a particular pep].

 

[chmuse]

I typically don't care as long as it tests well. I'll pay a small markup if it means I don't have to arrange my own testing or fight with the vendor if something goes wrong. But I do very much compare what I'm paying to recent price lists from other vendors. I try to stick with the more reputable groups, but I've absolutely gambled for the hell of it knowing I might get screwed.

I might have a gambling problem at this point, though.

 

[peptidepower77]

I'm curious how you all feel about group buys where the organizer won't name the vendor.

• Quality and Accountability: While third-party testing is essential, it doesn't tell the whole story. The vendors' reputation on how their products are made, stored, and handled is just as important. Without knowing the vendor, we can't research their reputation. For me, that transparency is a critical part of the vetting process.
• The Spirit of Group Buys: The original purpose of a group buy is to leverage collective buying power for a better price. I've noticed a trend where organizers of anonymous buys add a significant markup for profit, which seems to undermine that core principle.

So, what's your take? Would you join a buy without knowing where the product is actually from? Am I being too cautious?

I guess it depends. I mean, I noticed some people were donating vials. Those cost money, so if the person organizing the group buy is including the price of several vials that never get returned, that's legit too. I imagine it's a bit of a pain to organize one, especially if the logistics fail at some point (someone doesn't get their shipment even though they were a part of it). So I can see them marking up the price to account for that too. All in all if a person wants to roll the dice with a vendor, they can. There are more than enough of them, even here on the vendor page. But someone organizing and testing seems like it's worth something, and as others said, that reputation is probably important.

 

[Peptelligence]

First, a huge thank you for your responses on my last post. The discussion confirmed a shared sentiment: while group buys offer value, they operate in a gray area that leaves many of us uncomfortable. Here’s what I heard:

• No secret vendors: For most, an undisclosed vendor is a dealbreaker, regardless of testing. We need to know the source to assess its history and reputation.
• Be upfront about fees: Small fees for an organizer's time and effort are acceptable if disclosed. Hidden markups, however, undermine the trust and collaborative spirit of a group buy.
• Trust > a cheap deal: The community overwhelmingly prefers paying more for a trusted source over rolling the dice on a cheaper, anonymous one.

It seems that group buys are useful, but they need rules. Let me know if you all agree with the following as a checklist for a good "group buy":

1. Vendor Named: You know exactly who made it.
2. Full Tests Shared: No hiding the details.
3. Price Breakdown: You see where every dollar goes (product, shipping, fees).
4. Honest Fee: Any markup is stated clearly.
5. Proven Organizer: The person running it has a good track record.

How does this sound? Is anything else missing?

 

[peptidepower77]

First, a huge thank you for your responses on my last post. The discussion confirmed a shared sentiment: while group buys offer value, they operate in a gray area that leaves many of us uncomfortable. Here’s what I heard:

• No secret vendors: For most, an undisclosed vendor is a dealbreaker, regardless of testing. We need to know the source to assess its history and reputation.
• Be upfront about fees: Small fees for an organizer's time and effort are acceptable if disclosed. Hidden markups, however, undermine the trust and collaborative spirit of a group buy.
• Trust > a cheap deal: The community overwhelmingly prefers paying more for a trusted source over rolling the dice on a cheaper, anonymous one.

It seems that group buys are useful, but they need rules. Let me know if you all agree with the following as a checklist for a good "group buy":

1. Vendor Named: You know exactly who made it.
2. Full Tests Shared: No hiding the details.
3. Price Breakdown: You see where every dollar goes (product, shipping, fees).
4. Honest Fee: Any markup is stated clearly.
5. Proven Organizer: The person running it has a good track record.

How does this sound? Is anything else missing?

Is that for testing here? There are already dedicated testing discords around that are organized by vendor etc.

 

[ZippityDooDah]

That’s kinda the point of OP’s question. Some GB folks won’t tell you who their vendor is. And no, they aren’t the vendor themselves. Raven is an example. Sometime late last year, she hasn’t been willing to say who the vendor is for a particular buy, only that it’s the same as [some previous buy of a particular pep].

I guess I could have been more clear, I mean the "group buy" vendor (the US entity, as opposed to the Chinese "supplier") standing behind whoever's product they're selling. As long as they remain reputable from that standpoint I couldn't care less who they source from.

It's no different than when buying a steak from Texas Roadhouse or a supermarket that turns out to be lousy -- I expect the entity that sold me that steak to bear responsibility for it and not the farmer who raised the cow or the trucking company that transported it to market or anyone else in-between. If Texas Roadhouse or Kroger or whoever refuses to stand behind their product, that's an issue with them and not who provided them with the product.

 

[ZippityDooDah]

First, a huge thank you for your responses on my last post. The discussion confirmed a shared sentiment: while group buys offer value, they operate in a gray area that leaves many of us uncomfortable. Here’s what I heard:

• No secret vendors: For most, an undisclosed vendor is a dealbreaker, regardless of testing. We need to know the source to assess its history and reputation.
• Be upfront about fees: Small fees for an organizer's time and effort are acceptable if disclosed. Hidden markups, however, undermine the trust and collaborative spirit of a group buy.
• Trust > a cheap deal: The community overwhelmingly prefers paying more for a trusted source over rolling the dice on a cheaper, anonymous one.

It seems that group buys are useful, but they need rules. Let me know if you all agree with the following as a checklist for a good "group buy":

1. Vendor Named: You know exactly who made it.
2. Full Tests Shared: No hiding the details.
3. Price Breakdown: You see where every dollar goes (product, shipping, fees).
4. Honest Fee: Any markup is stated clearly.
5. Proven Organizer: The person running it has a good track record.

How does this sound? Is anything else missing?

I go back to my earlier (and long-standing) position that the problem isn't group buy "transparency", the issue is that these aren't "group buys" to begin with. The "group buy" term has just become an over-used marketing gimmick for vendors who want to avoid all the hassles of branding, labeling, even a website or domain name in exchange for lower profit margins and often using their customers trust and money to finance their startup costs.

To take this marketing gimmick a step further, following this "group buy" rationale into a more common scenario, places like Costco and Sam's Club would qualify as group buys.

If a vendor (in this case, the "group buy" operator/coordinator/etc.) wants to keep their source a secret that's their business, and it's up to the customer to decide if the "savings" are worth it to them.

Somewhere I have a list I put together of rules for "group buys", I'll have to see if I can dig it up and re-post it.

 

[exploitedworkerbee]

That’s kinda the point of OP’s question. Some GB folks won’t tell you who their vendor is. And no, they aren’t the vendor themselves. Raven is an example. Sometime late last year, she hasn’t been willing to say who the vendor is for a particular buy, only that it’s the same as [some previous buy of a particular pep].

You’re mistaken. If I sell products for my company with my brand name under a private label arrangement, I am considered the de facto manufacturer even if the actual production is subcontracted to a Chinese firm. If I sell another brand’s products in my store, I am considered a retailer of someone else’s products. This isn’t just a thought experiment, the distinction is important because they carry different legal and insurance obligations.

Group buys that keep the details of their manufacturing partners a trade secret make themselves the manufacturer, they’re selling it under their own brand. Group buys that disclose the manufacturing partners are acting as a shop selling someone else’s products. I am sorry but this is the reality even if it is inconsistent with what you wish was true.

 

[mlke6]

I enjoy partaking in group buys. My scaredy cat self though keeps imagining one of these eventually getting busted by one of the government groups and there being plenty of records... which leads to everyone who partook and all the other fun stuff some of us end up hoarding which may look like reselling but its just panik hoarding after discovering such a lovely world.

That has absolutely nothing to do with your question. My favorite group does not disclose and I'm ok with that part because of the testing. Even though testing really does not assure that the vendor isn't still sending like 20 different batches and claiming it as one.

 

[ZippityDooDah]

I enjoy partaking in group buys promotions.

Fixed it for 'ya.

 

[toologic]

From another view, I've done several GB's. The vender was disclosed but I'm not sure it mattered to me as I was very new and never heard of them anyways LOL. It was important that a fresh batch was made and we sent vials to 2 different labs for testing. I didn't have to mess with overseas problems, customs, lack of communication with the vender and I could pay with several different methods. Times have changed since then

 

[tracylynn]

I would be so happy to find a group buy so that I can get the testing done but I would want to know the vendor.