What do you tell your Doctor

[gantou]

I paid out of pocket for about a month through LillyDirect before switching to compounded and then grey. I still tell my doctor that I’m on compounded through a telehealth provider. She’s been pretty on me about it, saying compounded meds don’t have to follow FDA regulations. When I explain that I’ve weighed the risks and I’m comfortable with it, especially given the results and the cost, she says I’m risking my kidneys.

I kind of just brushed it off, mostly because I know she’d completely lose it if I told her I was reconstituting grey peptides. The whole conversation honestly made me start thinking about switching doctors.

 

[Labcat]

So I've been overweight for 12+ years with high cholesterol and prediabetes. Not once did my Dr consider me taking any GLP. The last time I was in the office to see her she totally denied that possibility so I decided to do my research and started taking Reta. Long story short, I am in the process of finding a new Dr that is more open to new approaches. She put me on statins a few years ago and my calcium deposits around my heart increased by 3 times the amount. I'm done with her and will look at other options.

Supposedly the increased calcium is denser stable calcium, as it is correlated with less risk of heart attacks. Still, I think glp and weight loss fixes hyperlipidemia and dyslipidemia probably better.

 

[Calm Logic]

I kind of just brushed it off, mostly because I know she’d completely lose it if I told her I was reconstituting grey peptides.

Haha! Sometimes I wish I had no filter.

 

[Waclive]

I paid out of pocket for about a month through LillyDirect before switching to compounded and then grey. I still tell my doctor that I’m on compounded through a telehealth provider. She’s been pretty on me about it, saying compounded meds don’t have to follow FDA regulations. When I explain that I’ve weighed the risks and I’m comfortable with it, especially given the results and the cost, she says I’m risking my kidneys.

I kind of just brushed it off, mostly because I know she’d completely lose it if I told her I was reconstituting grey peptides. The whole conversation honestly made me start thinking about switching doctors.

Be sure to tell her that 33% of FDA approved meds are pulled each year because of how harmful they are.

 

[Calm Logic]

Be sure to tell her that 33% of FDA approved meds are pulled each year because of how harmful they are.

Or should be: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-drugs-had-safety-problems-after-fda-approval

 

[Waclive]

Or should be: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-drugs-had-safety-problems-after-fda-approval

I think 33% is what they pull but the % should be way lower if they presented all the data besides what they wanted to present because they would never be approved in the first place.

"It took a median of 4.2 years after the drugs were approved for these safety concerns to come to light, the study found, and issues were more common among psychiatric drugs, biologic drugs, drugs that were granted "accelerated approval" and drugs that were approved near the regulatory deadline for approval."

Fucking yikes!

 

[Labcat]

Be sure to tell her that 33% of FDA approved meds are pulled each year because of how harmful they are.

Not meant to start an argument, but that is not each year! This ⅓ number seems to refer to overall drugs that get an additional FDA level addition to the initial approval document. I actually see this as a positive rather than a negative, since as even a large study only involves a few thousand people, there is plenty of room to discover rare or long term problems. I’ve heard the approval and release to the public called the Phase IV trial because of this (and how medication injury can be reported to the FDA for their review.)

Your point that approved medication isn’t perfectly safe is still true, it’s just partly or largely due to our discovery of further information. Still, since the greys don’t even have the initial trials, it’s not unreasonable to say they are still unproven.

I had a conversation a couple days ago about how we need to be careful to not throw out the baby with the bathwater out of over trust or over irritation with distrust in the system, both for approved meds and greys. For sure many of the greys have stalled in their development towards being an approved wealth generating molecule because there is something that was shown to not work… and this often doesn’t rate publication when it’s funded by an entity with secondary gain issues.

 

[tubby]

I think 33% is what they pull but the % should be way lower if they presented all the data besides what they wanted to present because they would never be approved in the first place.

"It took a median of 4.2 years after the drugs were approved for these safety concerns to come to light, the study found, and issues were more common among psychiatric drugs, biologic drugs, drugs that were granted "accelerated approval" and drugs that were approved near the regulatory deadline for approval."

Fucking yikes!

It makes perfect sense if you think about it:
Drug trials are often only going to last weeks to months (so they won't typically catch long-term issues prior to approval). Also, since manufacturers are paying for them, they're going to be constructed in a way that's looking for the bare minimum they can get away with in terms of side effect monitoring and will tend to focus on results the manufacturer anticipates will paint the drug in a positive light.
The first 5 years after approval of a new drug are the actual safety trials.

That's why whenever you're prescribed something you should always ask the doctor if there's a generic alternative available. It's not about cost savings (although that helps too). Newer/stupider doctors are often prescribing whatever the newest drug are, since they're fresh on their mind after being gassed up on how great they are by pharma reps. More competent doctors who know the game usually try to start with older/proven drugs.

 

[Waclive]

TL;DR: you're right, but the system is broken and doesn't play in our favor, however, I am aware there's a lot more that goes into that than what we're discussing here


I would say there is an inherent problem with the system when it comes to drug trials itself if a whopping 33% of drugs are recalled simply because the trials aren't long enough to catch the dangerous sides. It's clearly a for profit model over making the world a better place by helping people. Not that making money is a bad thing. But money made with the knowledge that some people will be hurt/die is not acceptable. And there's all kinds of evidence to show the latter is more true.

If you listen to what Brigham Buler has to say, they don't give all the information to the FDA and set trial guidelines to, like mentioned, paint the study in the most positive light for the company researching the drugs, not for the end consumer.

I'm definitely not here to cry about it or argue, there's nothing in life that doesn't come with some sort of risk. It's just shitty those risks are passed on to us without the full knowledge because trials and approvals are just things to give an illusion of safety when you peel back the drapes and the sunlight comes flooding in. I don't think there's a cabal of people rubbing their hands like Scrooge McDuck, but I do believe people at the top have their hands tied with fiduciary responsibility to the share holders of their companies.

There is also more to it than just this. There's a whole system at play here. And over time it's gotten to this point of essentially being a scam in my opinion. If you know about the inner workings of the machine, then it comes a lot more clear that medicine today isn't about healing, it's about money.

 

[Labcat]

TL;DR: you're right, but the system is broken and doesn't play in our favor, however, I am aware there's a lot more that goes into that than what we're discussing here


I would say there is an inherent problem with the system when it comes to drug trials itself if a whopping 33% of drugs are recalled simply because the trials aren't long enough to catch the dangerous sides. It's clearly a for profit model over making the world a better place by helping people. Not that making money is a bad thing. But money made with the knowledge that some people will be hurt/die is not acceptable. And there's all kinds of evidence to show the latter is more true.

If you listen to what Brigham Buler has to say, they don't give all the information to the FDA and set trial guidelines to, like mentioned, paint the study in the most positive light for the company researching the drugs, not for the end consumer.

I'm definitely not here to cry about it or argue, there's nothing in life that doesn't come with some sort of risk. It's just shitty those risks are passed on to us without the full knowledge because trials and approvals are just things to give an illusion of safety when you peel back the drapes and the sunlight comes flooding in. I don't think there's a cabal of people rubbing their hands like Scrooge McDuck, but I do believe people at the top have their hands tied with fiduciary responsibility to the share holders of their companies.

There is also more to it than just this. There's a whole system at play here. And over time it's gotten to this point of essentially being a scam in my opinion. If you know about the inner workings of the machine, then it comes a lot more clear that medicine today isn't about healing, it's about money.

I agree, except, I DO think there literally is a cabal of scrooge mcducks. History shows disporportionate influence of this billionaire class to benefit themselves…

If it helps, the 33% consists of drugs since the beginning. And a lot of it is clarifying what additional things to watch for. One thing I have often thought is that things sold as medications “without being allowed to say they are meant to treat any disease” that are considered “natural” can bypass the FDA and are not under scrutiny at all, but there’s no reason any molecule should be excused.

Really the grey community is such a rich resource we should gather data about sides. We somehow rarely think any truly bad things will happen to us… like cancer, organ injury, and mysterious biochemical alterations.

 

[Waclive]

I agree, except, I DO think there literally is a cabal of scrooge mcducks. History shows disporportionate influence of this billionaire class to benefit themselves…

If it helps, the 33% consists of drugs since the beginning. And a lot of it is clarifying what additional things to watch for. One thing I have often thought is that things sold as medications “without being allowed to say they are meant to treat any disease” that are considered “natural” can bypass the FDA and are not under scrutiny at all, but there’s no reason any molecule should be excused.

Really the grey community is such a rich resource we should gather data about sides. We somehow rarely think any truly bad things will happen to us… like cancer, organ injury, and mysterious biochemical alterations.

I have an inherent distrust for all of these industries, based on my own experiences and research, and I just don't want to lean into it too much or I'll become too cynical and not even go get blood work done 😅

100% agree with you this is why these communities exist. These places fill in the gaps with the anecdotes and personal experiences people share, especially if you have a doctor not willing to entertain such things about YOUR health. There's not much that will upset me more than a gas lighting doctor.

 

[Labcat]

I have an inherent distrust for all of these industries, based on my own experiences and research, and I just don't want to lean into it too much or I'll become too cynical and not even go get blood work done 😅

100% agree with you this is why these communities exist. These places fill in the gaps with the anecdotes and personal experiences people share, especially if you have a doctor not willing to entertain such things about YOUR health. There's not much that will upset me more than a gas lighting doctor.

I have to remind myself that doctors and any other health professional are just as indoctrinated as anyone else, and perhaps more so since it’s easy to slip that stuff into the kind of training that requires rigorous and extensive learning. People really can’t hear until they are ready to hear, and big business corporations are so loud. But they have piggybacked on real science so don’t let them block you from that.

 

[Waclive]

I have to remind myself that doctors and any other health professional are just as indoctrinated as anyone else, and perhaps more so since it’s easy to slip that stuff into the kind of training that requires rigorous and extensive learning. People really can’t hear until they are ready to hear, and big business corporations are so loud. But they have piggybacked on real science so don’t let them block you from that.

100%
If you don't have the time or resources to filter through the bullshit, it's hard to get to the right answer.

I've always been the type of person to take my health into my own hands. Then with the state world the last couple years, it's just amplified the signal for me.

 

[rGrain]

Assuming you go in for regular check ups and get blood work done. Do you tell him what you're taking? Do you keep it a secret?

I've also read you shouldn't hid anything from your doctor but when I told him I like to have a smoke every once in a while I got charged a smoking cessation consultation. And put on my chart which could affect any life insurance policy. Keep in mind I smoke at deer camp and when every once in a while when I would go out and drink.

So do you tell them or not.

I told her I was on compounded Zepbound and she got me on actual Zepbound through the VA she was like "you guys shouldn't be on compounded it's not safe but your numbers are really good finally

 

[tubby]

I have an inherent distrust for all of these industries, based on my own experiences and research, and I just don't want to lean into it too much or I'll become too cynical and not even go get blood work done 😅

100% agree with you this is why these communities exist. These places fill in the gaps with the anecdotes and personal experiences people share, especially if you have a doctor not willing to entertain such things about YOUR health. There's not much that will upset me more than a gas lighting doctor.

The person who throws up their arms and proclaims "it's all a scam" is just as idiotic as the person who blindly trusts the process, IMO.

The key insight to be gained here is that just about everywhere you're going to find pockets of regulatory and government capture where monied interests have manipulated and engineered various systems to their own benefit. Don't be upset by that. Just understand that's the natural and expected outcome and accept it exists.

The answer isn't to bury your head in the sand, but rather to explore the ways in which the systems have been manipulated, to the extent that they connect with your life.

Like with pharma, it's not that "all doctors are out to get you." It's that they're educated by a system that has been captured in various ways and their beliefs and biases will reflect that. Most doctors and medical researchers are good people who genuinely want to help. Look for other clever people who have peeled back the layers in a given domain and benefit from their work to save yourself some time in getting up to speed, but check their work too.

 

[Waclive]

I'm the type of person that thinks everything is figure-out-able. I will always figure out what works for me despite what any doctor tells me and I know isn't representative of my reality. That's not throwing hands up and saying fuck it why try since it's all a scam. That's noticing what a perverted system it is and finding an alternative solution to my medical concerns. No one should just give up on anything, especially on their health.

I said that nothing in life comes without risk, and that includes following a doctors advice, especially when you know the system they're brought up in. I find it less risky to take my health into my own hands and figuring out what works for me in my situation. Do I think you or anyone else should? No. Do I think you should educate yourself and listen to your heart of hearts? Absolutely I do. But make those decisions with all the information you can. And I say that because a lot people don't believe the doctor works the insurance company VS working for the patient because they don't have time to do research when life is lifing.

It just shouldn't be that way when it comes to health care is all I'm saying. Life isn't fair, we all know that. The system we have is bad and it shouldn't be that way. Navigating the health care system shouldn't bankrupt people in a country of so much excess is what I think.

The person who throws up their arms and proclaims "it's all a scam" is just as idiotic as the person who blindly trusts the process, IMO.

The key insight to be gained here is that just about everywhere you're going to find pockets of regulatory and government capture where monied interests have manipulated and engineered various systems to their own benefit. Don't be upset by that. Just understand that's the natural and expected outcome and accept it exists.

The answer isn't to bury your head in the sand, but rather to explore the ways in which the systems have been manipulated, to the extent that they connect with your life.

Like with pharma, it's not that "all doctors are out to get you." It's that they're educated by a system that has been captured in various ways and their beliefs and biases will reflect that. Most doctors and medical researchers are good people who genuinely want to help. Look for other clever people who have peeled back the layers in a given domain and benefit from their work to save yourself some time in getting up to speed, but check their work too.

 

[Labcat]

100%
If you don't have the time or resources to filter through the bullshit, it's hard to get to the right answer.

I've always been the type of person to take my health into my own hands. Then with the state world the last couple years, it's just amplified the signal for me.

Same. But what’s horrifying for me, is that with each step I take, I discover that I had been completely ignorant of a whole bunch of important things before. And this does not seem to get better😬. Live and learn I suppose.

 

[Waclive]

Same. But what’s horrifying for me, is that with each step I take, I discover that I had been completely ignorant of a whole bunch of important things before. And this does not seem to get better😬. Live and learn I suppose.

It's like having a food motivated house cat. If you're not paying attention, it'll snatch your food off your plate. Even when you're paying attention, it still trys to snatch your food but it's just more sneaky about it 😂😂