What the hell am I doing?

[RetCurious]

Yes we are. Just a simple Google search will give you several companies in CN that manufacture for the two big GLP companies. Many of the CN companies were started with venture capital money from the US big pharma industries . It’s a fact.

Jano says there are 2 sources in China for the raw peptides in his Lab FAQ.

 

[Jellybelly54]

Jano says there are 2 sources in China for the raw peptides in his Lab FAQ.

Lots of great answers to common questions in that article

Thanks for sharing!!

 

[krsct]

Jano says there are 2 sources in China for the raw peptides in his Lab FAQ.

Great reference. Thanks for this!

 

[Nerker]

Jano says there are 2 sources in China for the raw peptides in his Lab FAQ.

That's a great document.

 

[joseblo]

Jano says there are 2 sources in China for the raw peptides in his Lab FAQ.

It's a nice write up of the interview, but note that he says there are likely 2 sources for Reta (one of the newer and more complex peptides). His explanation make sense too, that it's all about the cost efficiency of an established manufacturing process. The older, rarer, and just less complex peptides (eg GHK-Cu) likely have many more manufacturers, as do Sema, and likely Tirz. A chemist can call a number of different raws manufacturers in China (who may also lyophilize) to manufacture small volume peptides (<100gr). Of course it won't be $0.2-0.5/mg.

 

[FilterOrDeath]

I am 68 yrs old, a highly trained medical professional, who is getting this white powder in an unmarked glass vial that (I presume but can't be certain) comes from a certain repressive country half way around the world that is paid for in crypto (which I otherwise have no use for.)

Then I dilute it and inject it into my body hoping for the expected good effects and hoping not to be harmed.

Yet, the results are fantastic and I am in the best shape of my life!

So you just go straight from reconstituting to injecting, no filtering between those 2? I'm always surprised when people don't. 😆

 

[Calm Logic]

I'm always surprised when people don't. 😆

To play devil's advocate: How many airlocks to get to your ISO 5 cleanroom?

The concern many have with filtering is that one may be creating a bigger problem:

At home, every time you move your arm to reach for a vial, you are shedding thousands of skin cells and bacteria (like Staph) into the air current.

Real cleanrooms use positive pressure to push air out. A home setup usually has neutral or negative pressure, meaning every time a door opens in the house, a "plume" of dust and pet dander is pulled toward the workspace.

A syringe filter catches bacteria, but it doesn't kill them. If your technique is slow, you are essentially concentrating contaminants onto a membrane and then high-pressuring your peptide solution through that "bio-mat."

 

[yrrdead]

To play devil's advocate: How many airlocks to get to your ISO 5 cleanroom?

Often the reluctance with filtering is the concern that one may be creating a bigger problem.

After filtering my last couple vials I just have the feeling that with all the steps(multiple syringes, multiple pokes, new vials/carts) just increases my chances of introducing contamination. I'm betting someone real smart could do some cool probabilities. I'd be betting that would show it to be a wash unless you were taking some extreme steps(or have access) with a sterile working environment.

 

[FilterOrDeath]

Yes I'm still surprised when people don't filter. So I ask and try and add some levity to the question because I am curious. And a lot of the new people don't know about it so never considered it as an option to implement or ignore.

I personally don't think the process is difficult at all but I have worked in a lab before. I don't use pens either but the ones that do have a lot of experience doing the entire process already so it's easy to just add the filter during that step for them. And I don't completely agree with the Gemini AI answer, they are almost always inaccurate in some way or put their best guess in there, it's wild. My own thought process has always been that we have zero control over what happened to it when it was created, the quality or cleanliness of the labs, or in shipping etc. It's the grey market so we just accept that. But I do have control over the filtering and the quality of sterilization of the products I buy. I know which process was used in the sterilization and the materials they are made of etc. Even if it only filters out bacteria, tiny pieces that didn't dissolve, or debris of some kind 1 time it is worth it for me. It's just my personal preference to do it every time and I'm curious why others do not and their thought process. I have had one person say it was the added cost. Another say they didn't know if they could keep the area clean to do it properly until they got the 70% alcohol spray. I see some here worry that it could cause the issue. And far more did not know what it is.

There are people on here that don't filter or even change needles every time and that's fine for them. 😆 We all decide what we are willing to try so it's good to have the information to make that decision.

 

[yrrdead]

Yes I'm still surprised when people don't filter. So I ask and try and add some levity to the question because I am curious. And a lot of the new people don't know about it so never considered it as an option to implement or ignore.

I personally don't think the process is difficult at all but I have worked in a lab before. I don't use pens either but the ones that do have a lot of experience doing the entire process already so it's easy to just add the filter during that step for them. And I don't completely agree with the Gemini AI answer, they are almost always inaccurate in some way or put their best guess in there, it's wild. My own thought process has always been that we have zero control over what happened to it when it was created, the quality or cleanliness of the labs, or in shipping etc. It's the grey market so we just accept that. But I do have control over the filtering and the quality of sterilization of the products I buy. I know which process was used in the sterilization and the materials they are made of etc. Even if it only filters out bacteria, tiny pieces that didn't dissolve, or debris of some kind 1 time it is worth it for me. It's just my personal preference to do it every time and I'm curious why others do not and their thought process. I have had one person say it was the added cost. Another say they didn't know if they could keep the area clean to do it properly until they got the 70% alcohol spray. I see some here worry that it could cause the issue. And far more did not know what it is.

There are people on here that don't filter or even change needles every time and that's fine for them. 😆 We all decide what we are willing to try so it's good to have the information to make that decision.

Not surprising that someone with practical lab experience is a proponent 🙂 . I have all the materials and just did it for the first time last week. Now I would consider myself relatively competent in most things. I can read, digest and apply. Background in electronics now working in water quality. I thought it went okay, only wasted one needle and one barrel by not following procedure. Should be smoother next time.

That being said after my first experience filtering if you were to do some type of meta analysis of everyone out there reconstituting their own peps, I'm pretty confident that we are probably doing more harm than good. Just the sheer amount of additional supplies , each one is another "point of failure". So on the assumption of a suspect vial I'm going to count on my technique and expertise as well as assuming the sterility of each additional component is "good" while assuming my peptide vial is "bad". That seems like a poor assumption. Especially with my technique and expertise which is extremely lacking.

If I had years of sterile lab technique experience and training, filtering would be automatic. For the rest of us I think it is much more nuanced. I will continue to use up all the supplies that I currently have but will I continue after that? Probably not, unless @IshimaruKenta comes down with dysentery again.

 

[FilterOrDeath]

Not surprising that someone with practical lab experience is a proponent 🙂 . I have all the materials and just did it for the first time last week. Now I would consider myself relatively competent in most things. I can read, digest and apply. Background in electronics now working in water quality. I thought it went okay, only wasted one needle and one barrel by not following procedure. Should be smoother next time.

That being said after my first experience filtering if you were to do some type of meta analysis of everyone out there reconstituting their own peps, I'm pretty confident that we are probably doing more harm than good. Just the sheer amount of additional supplies , each one is another "point of failure". So on the assumption of a suspect vial I'm going to count on my technique and expertise as well as assuming the sterility of each additional component is "good" while assuming my peptide vial is "bad". That seems like a poor assumption. Especially with my technique and expertise which is extremely lacking.

If I had years of sterile lab technique experience and training, filtering would be automatic. For the rest of us I think it is much more nuanced. I will continue to use up all the supplies that I currently have but will I continue after that? Probably not, unless @IshimaruKenta comes down with dysentery again.

Hahahah we are all waiting to see how that Oregon Trail dysentery situation plays out! 🤣

Okay adding a real response now that I'm done laughing about dysentery. Maybe I do underestimate how complicated it is for people that haven't worked in those lab environments before, that's hard to determine honestly. I think I assumed with all the people using pens and already doing all those steps I thought it was a pretty common practice. I'm good with being wrong though. And I agree with you that filtering isn't going to be a great option for everyone unfortunately. I think that's part of the reason I'm curious about why people do or don't and I don't judge them either way. I know there could be cost restraints, existing environmental/air quality issues, mobility issues, fear of needles, and more that could make it not viable for everyone. Also, skill and comfort level are important factors. So I am glad to see the little filtering kits are available so people can try it, if they want too, and see if it's a hard pass before buying boxes of 100 of all the things. If someone has the information, pros and cons of both sides, and doesn't want to filter that's good with me.

Question for you if you don't mind answering. If you were going to start using pens and doing all of those steps and using the different needles etc, creating the multiple points of failure, would you go ahead and do the filtering then?

 

[Calm Logic]

If you were going to start using pens and doing all of those steps and using the different needles etc, creating the multiple points of failure, would you go ahead and do the filtering then?

Yes. Good point:

If a stray skin cell or dust mite enters the stream during the transfer, the filter stops it before it sits in a pen at room temperature for weeks.

A 0.22-micron filter becomes a mandatory 'toll booth' to catch the domestic pathogens you’ve inevitably introduced.

 

[yrrdead]

-Snip

Question for you if you don't mind answering. If you were going to start using pens and doing all of those steps and using the different needles etc, creating the multiple points of failure, would you go ahead and do the filtering then?

I had a larger post but I think we are hijacking this thread from whatever the heck it was originally about 🙂 .

 

[Chili777]

It's a nice write up of the interview, but note that he says there are likely 2 sources for Reta (one of the newer and more complex peptides). His explanation make sense too, that it's all about the cost efficiency of an established manufacturing process. The older, rarer, and just less complex peptides (eg GHK-Cu) likely have many more manufacturers, as do Sema, and likely Tirz. A chemist can call a number of different raws manufacturers in China (who may also lyophilize) to manufacture small volume peptides (<100gr). Of course it won't be $0.2-0.5/mg.

If one wanted to ascertain the approximate number of manufacturers of any given peptides, you could go take a look at Chinamart and use the chemical names from PubChem. Reta has synonyms Retatrutide | C221H342N46O68 | CID 171390338. You can actually buy the raws fairly cheaply. I have a chemical engineer in the family and entertained the idea of compounding raws, for a few nanoseconds, in my early research days. It became more trouble than it was worth once I discovered gray.

 

[FarmgirlRebel]

Yes we are. Just a simple Google search will give you several companies in CN that manufacture for the two big GLP companies. Many of the CN companies were started with venture capital money from the US big pharma industries . It’s a fact.

This is why we wont go to war or have any "real" trade war with China. The US and a lot of EU countries are over a pharmaceutical barrel. China manufactures between 70-80% of all US pharmaceuticals

 

[ComputerElbow]

Actually, I first heard about reta from my gym bro personal trainer. But I keep the whole GLP-1 journey to myself and my wife.

I also learned about it form a gym bro. I hadn't seen him in months and we met up for dinner and he was a different level of lean from what I'd ever seen in a friend. He told me what he was doing and I impulse bought a couple of vials from his source.

I went into it with more of a Fire, Aim, Ready mentality...playing knowledge catch up now.

 

[Bcnlvr]

Medical here, too. I think over half my department is microdosing.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

I work in the pharma industry. Not peptides, anti-bodies in a fill and finish capacity. I used to be in bulk production of the same. I am aware of the accual cost and the extreme mark-up.

As my metabolic health started to decline I was recommended tirzepatide by my PCP, however my insurance wouldn't cover it until I was sicker, so I started with compounding, which is HSA eligible, but now with big pharmas scare tactics that too is on danger. So recently I started hoarding the grey.