Why does BAC water expire in 28 days?
- Thread starter Nightlily
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I wish I could find the FDA document calvarez linked on the old reddit sub, but it basically said that any substance that doesn't have a specific "use within x time after opening" notice on the label is assumed to be good for 28 days max, so it's pretty much a standard timeframe for all things lol.
Found it: https://www.fda.gov/media/117883/download
Found it: https://www.fda.gov/media/117883/download
Oh that’s interesting! Thank you
I may give it a bit more time. My rat is a stuff old cookie.I’m not a doctor, not medical advice. I push mine to 2 months and no issues. Some folks go until it’s finished
dionysos
Senior Member
@ZippityDooDah Good find Zip! I've been seeking the reason for the 28 day expiry for months now.
Interesting Note: Three days ago I was contacted by an anonymous individual who wanted a copy of my US Vendor spreadsheet; he was looking for a good, high-quality US peptide source so he could begin personal use. A long and engaging chat ensued.
I discovered he is a microbiologist managing a team of chemists at an (unnamed) three-letter health agency in Washington
and a great guy!Story short, we got around to discussing this "28-day bacteriostatic water expiry" controversy, and he didn't know how it originated either. Or where to find the source of the recommendation!
My assertion to him was this: a vial of bacteriostatic water in limited use by an individual with basic sterile technique and kept refrigerated in a typical residential refrigerator ("single-patient, multiple use" in FDA parlance) would be safe to use for a minimum of 90 days. He found no fault with that.
Further, I asserted that our individual use of a single vial for a single patient was of an entirely different risk profile than the "high-volume, multi-technician, many-patient, dozens of vial penetrations" use case that a 30ml vial of Hospira was intended for and for which a 28-day expiry would be approrpriate. He agreed that was so as well.
Not attributable so it's not authoritative but I thought you'd find it interesting.
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source of recommendation is the CDC. https://www.cdc.gov/injection-safety/media/pdfs/Safe-Injection-Checklist-P.pdf
There are reams and reams of pages but here is a short summary
Edited to add:
The United States Pharmacopeia (USP) General Chapter 797 recommends the following
There are reams and reams of pages but here is a short summary
Edited to add:
The United States Pharmacopeia (USP) General Chapter 797 recommends the following
- An unopened multi-dose vial should be discarded according to the manufacturer's expiration date.
- Once a multi-dose vial is opened (e.g., needle-punctured) the vial should be dated and discarded within 28 days unless the manufacturer states another date for that opened vial. The beyond-use-date should never exceed the manufacturer's original expiration date.
dionysos
Senior Member
Yes that is good @adria37 !
And it is consistent with what I've seen in that the issue is NOT the deterioration of bacteriostatic water.
The issue that is being regulated/minimized is cross-infection of multiple patients by improper use of single-patient vials of medicine.
Clearly not an issue for our sort of peptide use by individuals as there is no risk of cross-infection!
And it is consistent with what I've seen in that the issue is NOT the deterioration of bacteriostatic water.
The issue that is being regulated/minimized is cross-infection of multiple patients by improper use of single-patient vials of medicine.
Clearly not an issue for our sort of peptide use by individuals as there is no risk of cross-infection!
But.... you put a needle in and you pull a needle out. You are not under a laminar airflow hood preparing your gators meds. Having the needle exposed to air there is risk of contamination. Suppose your alligator sneezed across the room 5 mins before you decided to mix your meds or you dusted the top of your cabinets. Not a risk of cross infection person to person needle sharing but definitely a risk of contamination or cross infection from your gators sneeze to another gator you happen to be studying.
Alcohol is not the best antibacterial agent either but it is cheap and available. What if you had a c. difficile and touched the top of the vial and cleaned with alcohol. Alcohol will not kill c. difficile which is just one reason why alcohol hand sanitizers are not a substitute for hand washing. A surgical hand scrub before sterile gloves are applied prior to performing surgery is five minutes. When I wash my hands prior to preparing my RS meds it is not a surgical scrub so even then I am still risking bacteria on my vial.
Alcohol is not the best antibacterial agent either but it is cheap and available. What if you had a c. difficile and touched the top of the vial and cleaned with alcohol. Alcohol will not kill c. difficile which is just one reason why alcohol hand sanitizers are not a substitute for hand washing. A surgical hand scrub before sterile gloves are applied prior to performing surgery is five minutes. When I wash my hands prior to preparing my RS meds it is not a surgical scrub so even then I am still risking bacteria on my vial.
dionysos
Senior Member
Not disagreeing with you.
My point, and I do have one
, is that the level of risk in our use case is dramatically lower for cross-infection.
And the risk from the aging of the bacteriostatic water is non-existent, or at least not what the 28-day expiry is meant to address.
EDIT: What makes you think I don't have a laminar flow hood adria ?
Nothing but the best for Cocodrie, I assure you.
My point, and I do have one
, is that the level of risk in our use case is dramatically lower for cross-infection.And the risk from the aging of the bacteriostatic water is non-existent, or at least not what the 28-day expiry is meant to address.
EDIT: What makes you think I don't have a laminar flow hood adria ?
Nothing but the best for Cocodrie, I assure you.
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Probably into mycology
Now debate whether alcohol swabs are necessary.
On a side note my son is a nerd in a good way but one of his elementary school science projects was swabbing his mouth then smearing it on agar plates. He soaked some kind of square paper in alcohol, listerine, cepacol, and scope i think and put it on the agar. the square with cepacol killed/inhibited microbial growth better than any of the others.
This may be the most valuable piece of@ZippityDooDah Good find Zip! I've been seeking the reason for the 28 day expiry for months now.
Interesting Note: Three days ago I was contacted by an anonymous individual who wanted a copy of my US Vendor spreadsheet; he was looking for a good, high-quality US peptide source so he could begin personal use. A long and engaging chat ensued.
I discovered he is a microbiologist managing a team of chemists at an (unnamed) three-letter health agency in Washington
Story short, we got around to discussing this "28-day bacteriostatic water expiry" controversy, and he didn't know how it originated either. Or where to find the source of the recommendation!
My assertion to him was this: a vial of bacteriostatic water in limited use by an individual with basic sterile technique and kept refrigerated in a typical residential refrigerator ("single-patient, multiple use" in FDA parlance) would be safe to use for a minimum of 90 days. He found no fault with that.
Further, I asserted that our individual use of a single vial for a single patient was of an entirely different risk profile than the "high-volume, multi-technician, many-patient, dozens of vial penetrations" use case that a 30ml vial of Hospira was intended for and for which a 28-day expiry would be approrpriate. He agreed that was so as well.
Not attributable so it's not authoritative but I thought you'd find it interesting.
intelligence I've come across in a long time. Thanks so much.
Wow that's pretty cool!
looks like somebody here also grows some good 'shrooms
