Where do you draw the line? Clinical vs. Ancient vs. Biohacking?

[MTSpace]

I look at health care in three different ways, & my strategy completely changed once I started using peptides:

Official Science (Clinical Trials): This is slow & strict. It is great for proving if something is safe, but it takes years to approve or disapprove anything. It misses individual details because it only looks at what works for the "average" person.

Ancient Traditional Medicine: This is based on thousands of years of human observation. It is excellent for long-term, but it moves too slowly when you need a fast, targeted fix. Survival of the fittest along with excellent pattern recognition refined and preserved ancient medicine.

Biohacking (Peptides): This is taking health into our own hands. We use “bro” science coupled with some clinical data along with anecdotal evidence to improve our lives. Instead of waiting years for big drug companies & government to give us access.

Ever since I started using peptides, I stopped waiting for "official permission" to improve my health. I rely on my own tracking. I get blood work done every 8 weeks to turn my personal experiments into data along with keeping vital stats daily. I still use ancient medicine along with current FDA approved medicine, but biohacking has a much larger part of my engagement in my personal healthcare.

Where do you draw your lines? How much do you rely on official doctor protocols versus ancient/traditional medicine, or doing your own tracking & testing as a biohacker? Has anyone considered leaving the biohacking field? I believe I will biohack in some form until I have departed this world.

 

[laansasa]

I feel the same way. I use all 3 routes. Ancient traditional medicine for preventative care but when I have a UTI flare up, prescription antibiotics are the only way out not to suffer. I have a long list of daily supplements and peptides plus a stash of prescription meds for when I need them. Thankfully I am not on any permanent prescriptions at age 47 and given my family history, I am working hard to avoid going down my family history's road to diabetes, high blood pressure, arthritis, etc.

 

[MTSpace]

You maybe a unicorn not to be on a permanent medication at age 47! 💪

 

[MTSpace]

I feel the same way. I use all 3 routes. Ancient traditional medicine for preventative care but when I have a UTI flare up, prescription antibiotics are the only way out not to suffer. I have a long list of daily supplements and peptides plus a stash of prescription meds for when I need them. Thankfully I am not on any permanent prescriptions at age 47 and given my family history, I am working hard to avoid going down my family history's road to diabetes, high blood pressure, arthritis, etc.

You may be a unicorn not to be on a permanent medication at age 47! 💪

 

[BNLFL]

You maybe a unicorn not to be on a permanent medication at age 47! 💪

I wasn't till I turned 62.

 

[MTSpace]

I wasn't till I turned 62.

Unfortunately I have been in meds since 28 because of Addison’s Disease. But most all my friends in their 50’s are on some kind of permanent med. 62 years without is excellent.

 

[Grogu]

Great framework, though I'd say there's a fourth category sitting between official science and biohacking: modern medicine as actually practiced. Things like FDA-approved therapeutics, physician-directed care, established protocols, etc. That's distinct from the slow machinery of clinical trials.

My own approach draws on both ends. I follow the primary literature and clinical pipeline closely enough that by the time something reaches approval I've already been reading the data for some time.

What separates informed self-direction from winging it, for me, is mechanism. If I can't explain why something should work at a biological level, I'm skeptical regardless of which category it comes from. I don't lean on traditional medicine much personally; my anchor is always the science, with anecdote serving as a hypothesis generator rather than validation.

I tell my dad (87) that he’s alive today because of modern healthcare and the fact that he’s availed himself of medical care thoughout his life. It would drive me nuts as a kid that we would rely on the healthcare appartatus so much. All you had to do is mention an ailment and you were off to the doctor. Now in my mid 50s, I have an arsenal of doctors. I guess fruit doesn’t far from the tree.😂

 

[MTSpace]

Great point on 4th category.

I have a great PCP who recommends the journals & articles to read on the latest greatest research on the health issues I or my family are dealing with. He is unique in that he allows me to color outside of the lines as long as I research & understand the known upside/downside of the path I chose. I always felt he allows me to be a participant and lead on my own health. I am a work in practice.

 

[Grogu]

Great point on 4th category.

I have a great PCP who recommends the journals & articles to read on the latest greatest research on the health issues I or my family are dealing with. He is unique in that he allows me to color outside of the lines as long as I research & understand the known upside/downside of the path I chose. I always felt he allows me to be a participant and lead on my own health. I am a work in practice.

You're so lucky, your pcp sounds fantastic. My pcp is an Amazon doctor 🤣. She's fantastic actually, and the One Medical platform is very convenient (as you would expect from Amazon), but the drawback is the corporate risk management of the practice. And I'm okay with that as I'd prefer that grey use isn't noted in my medical history.

 

[MTSpace]

Opinions vary on letting your doctor know your “outside treatment plans/biohacking” & obviously the relationship you have with your doctor is unique since you are using Amazon, one of the worlds largest collector of personal data.

I was fortunate that my doctor actually helped me source my first peptide venture & was very supportive. I just asked if these peptides were available by prescription as I had no idea otherwise & he said no. But….let me help you so you can safely administer the proper peptides for the treatment being sought as he felt it was legitimate path. That’s when I learned about gray market for first time. Thx Doctor 🙂.

 

[SeaGypsy]

I feel the same way. I use all 3 routes. Ancient traditional medicine for preventative care but when I have a UTI flare up, prescription antibiotics are the only way out not to suffer. I have a long list of daily supplements and peptides plus a stash of prescription meds for when I need them. Thankfully I am not on any permanent prescriptions at age 47 and given my family history, I am working hard to avoid going down my family history's road to diabetes, high blood pressure, arthritis, etc.

Same, 53 and am not nor ever have been on any long term prescription meds. I have a supply of different antibiotics if needed for various ailments and some general OTC meds that I keep on hand.

I take my Flintstones vitamins and my peps every day but other than an occasional Tylenol that's it. I don't think I really have a line....lol

 

[flapjacks]

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I constantly find myself with doctors saying that I'm unique or that my reactions aren't typical. Because of that I tend toward the ancient or my own research because that's what gets results (for me).

 

[MTSpace]

Same, 53 and am not nor ever have been on any long term prescription meds. I have a supply of different antibiotics if needed for various ailments and some general OTC meds that I keep on hand.

I take my Flintstones vitamins and my peps every day but other than an occasional Tylenol that's it. I don't think I really have a line....lol

I think it’s the Flintstone Vitamins. BamBam. lol. Awesome you are free from pharma.

 

[lastresort]

Very interesting insight.

I consider clinical trials very important for general safety of average population because you cannot possibly customize all medications for people of very specific symptoms. Its just not feasible in terms of time and cost.

Your second point speaks to me personally because in my field, we have a lot of clinical studies validating these ancient medicines (roots, teas, leave extract) etc and its always pleasing to see the gap between anecdotes and real results getting smaller thanks to science. My company has lots of botanicals in our portfolio many of which are sold under health and nutrition.

 

[MTSpace]

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I constantly find myself with doctors saying that I'm unique or that my reactions aren't typical. Because of that I tend toward the ancient or my own research because that's what gets results (for me).

Many of us are A-typical. In some cases for the better and other cases it’s for the worse (me)!

 

[laansasa]

You may be a unicorn not to be on a permanent medication at age 47! 💪

I guess I'm pretty lucky. My genetics are weirdly mixed for chronic disease (diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc) run on both sides of the family, yet I got hit with other issues like a benign thyroid goiter, insomnia, low ferritin and lethargy, UTIs, etc. I think what saved me was part of my.genetics being super skinny most of my life until my late 30s when I went up 40 lbs out of nowhere (I'm only 5'1). I lost it all naturally partly due to vanity but also in fear of the above mentioned issues. But now I struggle with weight - not obesity, but stubborn fat that's just impossible to keep at bay.

 

[laansasa]

Same, 53 and am not nor ever have been on any long term prescription meds. I have a supply of different antibiotics if needed for various ailments and some general OTC meds that I keep on hand.

I take my Flintstones vitamins and my peps every day but other than an occasional Tylenol that's it. I don't think I really have a line....lol

Lol flintstone vitamins! I remember those. The fun taste of chalk, dry Kool-Aid mix, and aquarium gravel!
That's great you aren't on any permanent prescription at 53! 🙌 #goals

 

[MTSpace]

First path to healing is identifying the issues. You seem to have a good grasp of what needs attention. Now to figure out the mechanism you chose to treat.

 

[SeaGypsy]

Lol flintstone vitamins! I remember those. The fun taste of chalk, dry Kool-Aid mix, and aquarium gravel!
That's great you aren't on any permanent prescription at 53! 🙌 #goals

Perfect description 😂😂😂
And the taste has not changed!!!!

 

[SeaGypsy]

I guess I'm pretty lucky. My genetics are weirdly mixed for chronic disease (diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc) run on both sides of the family, yet I got hit with other issues like a benign thyroid goiter, insomnia, low ferritin and lethargy, UTIs, etc. I think what saved me was part of my.genetics being super skinny most of my life until my late 30s when I went up 40 lbs out of nowhere (I'm only 5'1). I lost it all naturally partly due to vanity but also in fear of the above mentioned issues. But now I struggle with weight - not obesity, but stubborn fat that's just impossible to keep at bay.

Man you are playing genetic dodgeball! I hope you manage to duck and weave thru all that! I kinda wish I had the one skinny genetic trait but alas I was always the fat one of the group

 

[laansasa]

Man you are playing genetic dodgeball! I hope you manage to duck and weave thru all that! I kinda wish I had the one skinny genetic trait but alas I was always the fat one of the group

"Genetic dodgeball" is right! My mom was a hippie in the 60s/70s who got into all the ancient health stuff since before I was born so I grew up eating healthy and going to chiropractors and osteopaths, macrobiotic groups, iridologists, naturopaths, yoga (before it was cool), you name it. I did rebel as a teen and went rogue in my 20s and 30s so that caught up with me. I can say I had a solid foundation of understanding root causes of health issues and natural ways to treat them, but age is cruel and payback for my decades of overindulgence is expensive. Now resorting back to what I knew all along plus adding peptides (which is totally new to me). It has been quite a ride!

 

[flapjacks]

Many of us are A-typical. In some cases for the better and other cases it’s for the worse (me)!

Thanks for the reassurance. It's been a mixed bag for me too. I have a weird genetics leaving me with tendencies towards infections, benign cyst growths, hernias, and random nerves shutting down. My least favorite words on reports are "Incidental Findings". Some of us win, and some of us don't (me).

 

[mongchopz]

For me , it was use gray market because I can’t afford uk prices of the pens and can’t get access to to things like ret via the official route . The risk outweighs the issues being vastly overweight in my 50s will bring .

 

[tcpnomad]

I think all of these are on the same continuum.

Ancient knowledge is the distilled experience of the ages, but frequently gets mixed up with superstition and biases. It lacks the logical structure and methods to determine the truth. So, while there may be many useful things in there, it is not always clear how much trust to ascribe to each thing.

Science is just logical structure and systematic methods applied to discovery of truth. But it just doesn't have the bandwidth to address everything. And it deliberately stays away from things it cannot apply rigorous methods to. So, a lot goes unaddressed, even though there may be value in there.

Biohacking is just amateur science. It applies modern information to things, but cannot apply it rigorously or accurately - because, like it or not, we are not trained for it like the scientists are, and we don't have the resources. We resort to a mixture of partial understanding, intuition, word of mouth and trial-and-error. But that is not to say, there isn't value in there. The experience of many people ultimately gets distilled into useful stuff. But it is never going to be as reliable as the scientific method.

 

[MTSpace]

Thanks for the reassurance. It's been a mixed bag for me too. I have a weird genetics leaving me with tendencies towards infections, benign cyst growths, hernias, and random nerves shutting down. My least favorite words on reports are "Incidental Findings". Some of us win, and some of us don't (me).

Life is certainly not fair! Some time back in history my ancestors faced the plague and other infections that changed the trajectory of my genetic pool. I have a couple genetic markers that gave me a chance to research the theories how I have been blessed with such poor genetics. But the curiosity and will to work around my genetics to live a life I am thankful for. Keep up the good fight.

 

[MTSpace]

I think all of these are on the same continuum.

Ancient knowledge is the distilled experience of the ages, but frequently gets mixed up with superstition and biases. It lacks the logical structure and methods to determine the truth. So, while there may be many useful things in there, it is not always clear how much trust to ascribe to each thing.

Science is just logical structure and systematic methods applied to discovery of truth. But it just doesn't have the bandwidth to address everything. And it deliberately stays away from things it cannot apply rigorous methods to. So, a lot goes unaddressed, even though there may be value in there.

Biohacking is just amateur science. It applies modern information to things, but cannot apply it rigorously or accurately - because, like it or not, we are not trained for it like the scientists are, and we don't have the resources. We resort to a mixture of partial understanding, intuition, word of mouth and trial-and-error. But that is not to say, there isn't value in there. The experience of many people ultimately gets distilled into useful stuff. But it is never going to be as reliable as the scientific method.

I figure BroScience preceded Biohacking with similar amateur science.

BroScience said anabolic steroids worked for strength, healing, and muscle size. I was reading in the 80’s where most science didn’t support the BroScience theory on anabolic steroids. As an athlete who didn’t do any steroids, I had friends & co-teammates who gained 10-30 lbs of muscle in months with use of AAS. I remember as a teenager saying science is blind to their own ambition which I still subscribe to in “some” cases.

BroScience has the same ingredients as today’s Biohackers have. And those individuals amongst us with strong pattern recognition & analytical thought processes bless those of us who ride their coat tales.

 

[tcpnomad]

I figure BroScience preceded Biohacking with similar amateur science.

BroScience said anabolic steroids worked for strength, healing, and muscle size. I was reading in the 80’s where most science didn’t support the BroScience theory on anabolic steroids. As an athlete who didn’t do any steroids, I had friends & co-teammates who gained 10-30 lbs of muscle in months with use of AAS. I remember as a teenager saying science is blind to their own ambition which I still subscribe to in “some” cases.

BroScience has the same ingredients as today’s Biohackers have. And those individuals amongst us with strong pattern recognition & analytical thought processes bless those of us who ride their coat tales.

heh - I like that word, "BroScience"! 🤣

 

[MTSpace]

There is a cult like following of BroScience.

 

[BigDaddyJ]

So I am also lucky to have a PCP that supports “alternates”. So with her recommendations, here I am. The journal is a great help!!

 

[Habibibi]

Too many supplements and drugs out there, so I just rely on clinical data to reduce that number. I monitor blood work every 2-3 months.