Eloralintide Dosages

[SoCalGirl]

I've read that L*y created Eloralintide as the new Cagri 2.0 - longer half-life, more stable, etc. It looks like you can dose at 1mg for about 9% body weight loss. Here's a summary I pulled from an NIH study:

The mean percent change in bodyweight from baseline after 48 weeks (efficacy estimand) was:

-9% (1 mg, 95% CI -12·6 to -6·3)
-12% (3 mg, -14·9 to -9·8),
-18% (6 mg, -20·7 to -14·5),
-20% (9 mg, -22·7 to -17·5)

I think I like the 1-3 mg range for myself. Definitely thinking about adding this one to the weekly RETA.

Anyone else jumping into the deep end, early? 😁

 

[Super Trips]

im doing 6mg with 6 mg of reta from the rip

 

[Nopenada]

Anyone else jumping into the deep end, early? 😁

I should have a kit by the end of July and thought I was going to give it a go, but I’m in maintenance on a low dose of Tirz after losing what I was looking to lose on Reta and I think I’m going to start lighter and give Cagri a shot instead. I don’t want to lose any more but I have a hard time controlling what I eat if left to my own devices.

I’ve got a lab rat (friend) that I’ve got on 4mg of Reta to compliment his 10mg of prescription Zepbound, but he still seems a bit stalled. Going to up the Reta again, but if that doesn’t work I’ll be pulling out the Elora to see if we can break his stall.

 

[lessthanhalf]

-9% (1 mg, 95% CI -12·6 to -6·3)
-12% (3 mg, -14·9 to -9·8),
-18% (6 mg, -20·7 to -14·5),
-20% (9 mg, -22·7 to -17·5)

Interesting, given 1mg of reta caused about 9% and 4mg caused about 20% weight loss, I wonder whether they will end up selling a combo elora/reta at low doses for less severe obesity, with hopefully very low rates of side effects, but still pretty good weight loss, and the higher dose versions for more severe obesity with maybe amazing degrees of weight loss. If the effects are truly additive you could get near 50%.

 

[SoCalGirl]

Interesting, given 1mg of reta caused about 9% and 4mg caused about 20% weight loss, I wonder whether they will end up selling a combo elora/reta at low doses for less severe obesity, with hopefully very low rates of side effects, but still pretty good weight loss, and the higher dose versions for more severe obesity with maybe amazing degrees of weight loss. If the effects are truly additive you could get near 50%.

YES YES YES - exactly what I was thinking! They are going to COMBO it with RETA, just like all the new CAGRI+GLP gearing up. I got my order in, pretty excited about this one, because I will combine it with RETA. 😉

 

[lessthanhalf]

I had a look at the eloralintide study and it was quite interesting that at 48 weeks there was no signs of a plateau, weight was still dropping for all doses at that stage so max weight loss for elora is going to be higher than the numbers seen so far. Presumably over the next year or 2 there will be longer or follow up studies that I think will show at least another 5% and maybe even another 10% weight loss. And the animal studies comparing cagrilintide to eloralintide showed more fat mass loss and less muscle loss for elora.

 

[Spork]

How variable is the timeline between when a clinical trial is completed vs when results are released?

This one caught my interest:

A Study of Eloralintide (LY3841136) and Eloralintide With Tirzepatide in Participants With Overweight or Obesity​

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

Phase one trial, am I reading this right that this group here would be on 15mg of tirzepatide and 9 or 12mg of eloralintide?

"Cohorts A and B: PK: Maximum Concentration (Cmax) of Eloralintide and Tirzepatide [Time Frame: Day 106 Predose to Approximately Week 26]"

...or is that just talking about the concentration of the two in the blood regardless of the actual prescribed dose?

I mean, I assume if they've moved ahead with subsequent trials that all is safe and good here, but just curious if there are things we can infer in terms of some dosing guidelines.

 

[lessthanhalf]

As far as I can tell this is just a pre report of a study about to start or that is ongoing, reported date 4/26 so very recent. If it takes at least 26 weeks, then results are unlikely to be available for about a year , maybe a bit less. And it is only phase 1 so the phase 2 and 3 results will not be around for multiple years unfortunately.

 

[Grogu]

How variable is the timeline between when a clinical trial is completed vs when results are released?

Very variable, sometimes results are presented first at either the ADA or Obesity Week conferences. Sometimes the associated peer reviewed article is published at the same time as one of these conferences. And sometimes the results are issued through a press release as “top line” results before a conference proceeding. Phase 1 results are more common at the ADA conference, but that just happened in early June. The deadline to submit the abstract was early January, so not enough time to put things together.

Phase one trial, am I reading this right that this group here would be on 15mg of tirzepatide and 9 or 12mg of eloralintide?

"Cohorts A and B: PK: Maximum Concentration (Cmax) of Eloralintide and Tirzepatide [Time Frame: Day 106 Predose to Approximately Week 26]"

...or is that just talking about the concentration of the two in the blood regardless of the actual prescribed dose?

Lilly has become really careful to blind dosing in their clinical trial filings, but it’s safe to speculate that the study probably tested the maximum dosage for each. I’ve searched for hours looking for the doses in the higher dose tirzepatide study and came up with nothing. You are correct that Cmax is referring to blood concentration and not dosage.

I mean, I assume if they've moved ahead with subsequent trials that all is safe and good here, but just curious if there are things we can infer in terms of some dosing guidelines.

The study closed in January of this year without being cancelled or stopped, so I think that the best we can infer is that there are no major safety concerns that would have stopped the trial. Can’t infer anything about dosing.

My bet is they present the abstract at Obesity Week in November.

 

[SoCalGirl]

My bet is they present the abstract at Obesity Week in November.

Obesity Week! NOT to be missed. Oh boy, what a name for a conference. Does anyone even try anymore? 🤣

 

[Grogu]

Obesity Week! NOT to be missed. Oh boy, what a name for a conference. Does anyone even try anymore? 🤣

I'm sure its TONS of fun 🤣.

 

[Spork]

Obesity Week! NOT to be missed. Oh boy, what a name for a conference. Does anyone even try anymore? 🤣

Every week is Obesity Week in my house!
(Hoping I can get to at least Overweight Week at some point here soon)

 

[Raidenfat2fit]

I'm 100% considering it and I'm currently looking for a source. I was initially going to stack cagri with my reta but I've been apprehensive due to how hotly debated it is amongst the community about the potential of getting alzheimers with cagri and other issues.

Eloralintide seems to be more stable and doesn't carry those issues so I'm definitely looking forward to purchasing some eloralintide. However only one vendor has it as far as I know and I don't know about how reputable they are

 

[lessthanhalf]

Drugs like these with potentially massive commercial implications, tend to get results reported much more quickly, often as press releases by the company, they are not likely to sit on positive results with possibly billions of dollars worth of stock price implications for long. At this stage Elora might be the second most promising drug being developed after Reta. And depending on how well weight loss adds with GLPs could be the most significant find yet.

 

[Spork]

Drugs like these with potentially massive commercial implications, tend to get results reported much more quickly, often as press releases by the company, they are not likely to sit on positive results with possibly billions of dollars worth of stock price implications for long. At this stage Elora might be the second most promising drug being developed after Reta. And depending on how well weight loss adds with GLPs could be the most significant find yet.

It's intriguing to me that they aren't explicitly running an Eloralintide + Retatrutide clinical trial (unless I'm missing something). That would seem to be a killer combo for E.L. given that Retatrutide has the best overall weightloss results out there, but (I suppose anecdotally) doesn't suppress appetite quite like Tirzepatide. Then add in Eloralintide which seems to have superior appetite suppression and it feels as though there isn't a better one-two punch available.

Why Elora+Tirz? Does this sort of thing allow them to hold the patent for Tirzepatide longer? Are they actually worried about the cost of a combined therapy for customers? (HA! Sorry, obviously can't be that) Is it just a matter of getting this to market faster?

Here's the other interesting thing though, they are studying Eloralintide in combination with another therapy: Macupatide.

I had no idea what that was and had never heard of it. Apparently it has no GLP-1 component and exclusively targets GIP.

So this confuses me a little bit more in terms of not running a Reta + Elora trial at the moment.

 

[Grogu]

So this confuses me a little bit more in terms of not running a Reta + Elora trial at the moment.

I personally wouldn’t read too much into the fact that there isn’t currently a reta+elora study. There are a TON of possibilities.

The cynical part of me thinks it’s probably related to world dominance and $$$$. Just like the extended doses of tirzepatide, I’m sure that if those are approved, that that will extend the patent protection for those doses. Spacing these things out, just keeps the clock running on their patents and revenue pipeline.

If I had to guess an actual strategy, I think that EL has to be careful as they have so many obesity medications in the pipeline and how each are positioned as not to dilute market share and product differentiation.

 

[Spork]

I personally wouldn’t read too much into the fact that there isn’t currently a reta+elora study. There are a TON of possibilities.

The cynical part of me thinks it’s probably related to world dominance and $$$$. Just like the extended doses of tirzepatide, I’m sure that if those are approved, that that will extend the patent protection for those doses. Spacing these things out, just keeps the clock running on their patents and revenue pipeline.

If I had to guess an actual strategy, I think that EL has to be careful as they have so many obesity medications in the pipeline and how each are positioned as not to dilute market share and product differentiation.

Yeah, can't figure out if the greedy spacing out of these things (which yes, ain't exactly a stretch in logic in terms of what's likely going on here) is good or bad if you're someone who has shown a willingness to just go gray.

On the plus side, the longer they wait to release them, the more motivation the gray market has to make them available.

On the negative side, I sure would like to have more data available to us that would help with dosing guidance and stacking efficacy.

(ie. where are those trial results of the bigger doses of tirzepatide!?)

 

[Ted R]

I personally wouldn’t read too much into the fact that there isn’t currently a reta+elora study. There are a TON of possibilities.

The cynical part of me thinks it’s probably related to world dominance and $$$$. Just like the extended doses of tirzepatide, I’m sure that if those are approved, that that will extend the patent protection for those doses. Spacing these things out, just keeps the clock running on their patents and revenue pipeline.

If I had to guess an actual strategy, I think that EL has to be careful as they have so many obesity medications in the pipeline and how each are positioned as not to dilute market share and product differentiation.

I think the reason you saw a trial stacking Elora with Tirz is because Tirz is already FDA approved and sides and results are already well known while Reta is still investigational. Stacking two investigational meds could confound approval for either or both depending on resulting sides and weight loss. I really believe after hearing one of Lilly's chief science speak to the future that you will see a combination Tirz+Elora first as he was saying attacking TWO receptors (GLP & GIP?) and adding Amylin agonist was what they were concentration on for the future.

 

[Grogu]

I think the reason you saw a trial stacking Elora with Tirz is because Tirz is already FDA approved and sides and results are already well known while Reta is still investigational. Stacking two investigational meds could confound approval for either or both depending on resulting sides and weight loss. I really believe after hearing one of Lilly's chief science speak to the future that you will see a combination Tirz+Elora first as he was saying attacking TWO receptors (GLP & GIP?) and adding Amylin agonist was what they were concentration on for the future.

I was thininking the same thing, but as @Spork mentioned, Macupatide is being tested with elora and Macupatide is also still in the investigational stage. But they might not care about Macupatide like they do retatrutide, but mixing two investigational medications might not affect either drugs approval process or I don't think that they would risk eloralintide with macupatide.

 

[SoCalGirl]

I'm sure its TONS of fun 🤣.

DIED! JUST spit my coffee at the screen!!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 I love what a funny group we have!!

 

[Grogu]

DIED! JUST spit my coffee at the screen!!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 I love what a funny group we have!!

We gottta laugh about this shit or else we’d cry from the anhedonia.