HappyBear
GLP-1 Novice
🚫No Source Discussion🚫
Whar does you stack look like of tirz and reta? Have you benefitted with both? How far apart do you take them? Im looking to do the same.
Thinking about switching to Sema from Reta
- Thread starter kagami00
- Start date
GLP-1 Novice
After running with 2.5mg of tirz for a few months I started getting some food noise again. Instead of upping the dose I decided to add 1mg of reta to see what would happen. Had some lying around and figured why the hell not.
I'm currently on 2.5mg tirz + 2mg of reta. I track my rhr with a health tracker and definitely saw the reta get into action when upping the dose to 2mg.
So far so good, can recommend. More people have been running it successfully.
HereKittyKitty
GLP-1 Enthusiast
I'm a big fan of Sema. Started on it and did well with minimal sides (unlike a lot of anecdotal chatter). It is a solid offering. Just because it is an older formula doesn't mean it is without value.
AngieHolmes
GLP-1 Apprentice
Reta + Tirz has a lot of anecdata behind it. Works for me : )
Of course you'll have to fool around to find the right dosages for you. Good luck!
woundcarping
GLP-1 Specialist
I'd never tried Sema, so part of the draw was that novelty. I started on Tirz back in December with no meaningful sides.
I may try .125mg of sema 2x weekly, or maybe switch to Tirz, or maybe I'm ok not stacking, or maybe cagri, or Elora if/when I get some (lets be honest, I'll probably get "some.")
AngieHolmes
GLP-1 Apprentice
Staying flexible and collecting data on your own experience is the way.
BikesOverCars
GLP-1 Novice
🚫No Source Discussion🚫
My bad. Wasn’t hating on Sema although I did say Tirz is superior which is maybe a stretch since I haven’t tried it. Tirz is definitely more readily available however just from looking at pricelists.
The semaglutide hate that comes up in these threads makes me really sad lol. And kind of defensive? which I know doesn't make any sense because obviously it's nothing personal, but it's kind of like when a bunch of people shit talk your favorite band or something.
As other people have said, sema is good for stacking if you want to go that route because it's the only single GLP agonist so stacking it will hopefully cause less side effects from over activating a bunch of pathways at the same time, if that makes sense.
Also semaglutide is much cheaper than the rest -- I don't understand why people claim it's not. You can pretty easily find a 30mg kit for less than $120. Each vial would last ~3 months if you did the highest prescribed dose. An equivalent kit (in terms of top dose) of tirze would be 240mg, which doesn't appear to be readily available. So let's compare tirze 60 instead, which a lot of vendors carry. It ranges in price from $150 (usually a sale) to $250 to even more, although I'd say mid 200 seems to be the average. Each vial would only last a month at the highest dose. The price difference is stark.
That difference is actually why, I believe, a lot of vendors don't seem to offer sema as much anymore -- a lot of people have switched to newer offerings, or just never tried it, plus it costs so little that there's not a huge benefit for vendors to stock it. Why would they, when they can only reasonably charge ~$60 for a 10mg kit that would last 40 weeks, vs selling a 60mg kit of tirze that lasts the same amount of time but costs 3-4 times that amount?
As other people have said, sema is good for stacking if you want to go that route because it's the only single GLP agonist so stacking it will hopefully cause less side effects from over activating a bunch of pathways at the same time, if that makes sense.
Also semaglutide is much cheaper than the rest -- I don't understand why people claim it's not. You can pretty easily find a 30mg kit for less than $120. Each vial would last ~3 months if you did the highest prescribed dose. An equivalent kit (in terms of top dose) of tirze would be 240mg, which doesn't appear to be readily available. So let's compare tirze 60 instead, which a lot of vendors carry. It ranges in price from $150 (usually a sale) to $250 to even more, although I'd say mid 200 seems to be the average. Each vial would only last a month at the highest dose. The price difference is stark.
That difference is actually why, I believe, a lot of vendors don't seem to offer sema as much anymore -- a lot of people have switched to newer offerings, or just never tried it, plus it costs so little that there's not a huge benefit for vendors to stock it. Why would they, when they can only reasonably charge ~$60 for a 10mg kit that would last 40 weeks, vs selling a 60mg kit of tirze that lasts the same amount of time but costs 3-4 times that amount?
lessthanhalf
GLP-1 Specialist
My bias against semaglutide is based on 2 things, one personal experience and two, it does not produce as much weight loss as tirzepatide or retatrutide, which are between 5 - 15% more effective, and it has significantly higher rates of gastrointestinal side effects.
I used sema for a year, before I realised grey peptides existed, and in Australia low dose prescribed sema was not too expensive at about $140 aud/month. I could never increase the dose above 0.5mg per week due to nausea and malaise, and ended up using 0.22mg every second day ( to get some relief from hunger after losing 70 kg before starting it ) without too much nausea or feeling unwell. I now have much more appetite suppression and less side effects from 15mg tirz plus 5mg of reta than I did from 0.8mg of sema.
If you have used sema for weight loss and it has worked and side effects are not a problem, staying on it makes perfect sense, but for someone starting a glp for the first time using grey sources, I cannot think of a good reason to ever choose it above reta or tirz.
woundcarping
GLP-1 Specialist
Using your numbers for Sema 30mg=$12 per vial.
30mg/2.4mg week = 12.5 weeks. $12/12.5= $.96/week
My numbers for Tirz, 140mg=$20
140mg/15mg week= 9.3 weeks. $20/9.3 weeks= $2.15/week
My numbers for Reta, 140mg= $32
140mg/12mg week= 11.6 weeks. $32/11.6 weeks= $2.76/week
$2.76-$.96= $1.80 x 52 weeks in the year= $93.60/year in difference, high to low. That's an irrelevant difference to me.
That being said, I take Reta and I've started taking a taste of Sema. I'm not sure if I'll continue, or if I'll pivot to Cagri or Elora or whatever else. I paid $8.6 per 5mg of Sema and am taking perhaps .25mg/week. 10 week vial life means it cost me $.86/week currently. I'd be more attracted to Sema, perhaps, if I found a deal on it commiserate with its maturity and efficacy.
HereKittyKitty
GLP-1 Enthusiast
How much of a deal is a deal for Sema? It's pretty cheap from most vendors.
I don't know if I'd want something more effective, honestly. I lost over half my body weight using semaglutide and have been sitting comfortably at a BMI of 19 pretty much since then. That's part of my (perhaps unfounded) worry about having to switch to tirzepatide or something different, I can't reasonably afford to lose more weight at this point. But I also know from decades of experience that if I stop taking these drugs I'll gain all the weight back very quickly.
I've never had a prescription since my insurance won't cover GLP medication for obesity alone, so I've only ever used resellers/grey. Can I ask, on tirzepatide alone, was the appetite suppression sufficient for you? That's particularly what I'm worried about if I have to switch. Sema has been so effective for me at such a low dose, but I'm worried something else might not be. I know the suppression from it is stronger since it only acts on the GLP1 pathway, which is why the doses for it are so much lower -- and also why a lot of people have worse side effects. My girlfriend for example, switched to tirze after being unable to handle the side effects of semaglutide.
Also I'll be honest, I struggle a lot with my mental health in general, so it's entirely possible I actually am having side effects from the sema but just not noticing it. I have depression/anxiety/panic disorder already so unless something was really fucking me up I probably wouldn't even register it. That's part of what happened with my girlfriend, along with the gastro effects.
woundcarping
GLP-1 Specialist
Fine... I ordered 5 kits of S5 and I can cross that off my list. 🤣 I was hoping for a group buy getting the price down, but I suppose less than $5/vial delivered is approaching the realm of diminishing returns in cost efficiency unless you're buying in bulk.
lessthanhalf
GLP-1 Specialist
It sounds like you are a super responder to semaglutide, so I actually would not worry too much about having to switch, It is not like it has been formally researched, but it would be very likely if you responded that well to sema you would respond equally well to tirz or reta.
A lot is said online about how good each drug is at appetite suppression, but a lot just does not really make sense. There is really no evidence that tirz increases energy expenditure, it is possible all GLP drugs reduce the decline in EE with weight loss, but not exactly proven yet. So if tirz does not increase EE, then to cause more weight loss, it is causing people to eat less, so by any reasonable definition, it causes more appetite suppression, which is why it causes more weight loss than sema.
Sema is more potent at GLP-1 receptors than tirz on a mg to mg basis, but at maximum doses of tirz or sema, total downstream effects of GLP activation are likely higher for tirz than sema, mainly due to the biased agonism of tirz on GLP-1, where it preferentially activates cAMP signalling over beta arrestin signalling, which reduces receptor removal from the cell membrane so it can no longer interact with GLP-1. In effect this means tirz can have a stronger effect on GLP-1 than sema, once adjusted for doses.
It is the GIP agonism of tirz that counteracts nausea, malaise and food aversion from GLP-1 agonism, which explains it's lower rates of side effects.
I started using GLP drugs backwards, in that I lost most of the weight first. I knew GLP's existed , having looked at the research on and off for the last 40 years hoping one day they will finally make something that works, and then they did, but I could not afford it , which sucked , not being employed, so I lost the weight and had a year of trying sucessfully to keep it off before starting ozempic, but it was hard and I was more or less always hungry. Ozempic at 0.8mg/w helped a bit with the hunger and a bit with making me fuller from smaller amounts of food. Tirz was a bit better, mainly as it caused less side effects so I could increase the dose, and by then I found out about cheap chinese versions so cost was no longer the problem. But I was still hungry on 15mg of tirz, which is why I added in the reta and later cagri. If I had to do it on just tirz, it would be much easier than without it, but I still hope it might be possible to use these drugs to find a stable point where appetite is reduced to match the number of calories needed to stay weight neutral long term, about 1600-1800 kcal/day.
I do know what you mean about not knowing what effects in has on the brain. I have had recurrent/treatment resistant depression for a long time, and there is no way to know if it makes anhedonia / amotivational issues worse or not, as these symptoms and the drugs change over long periods of time making changes slow and hard to easily see. I figure in the end the mental effects of regaining 80kg would be worse than anything the drugs could possibly do.
gusterbuster
GLP-1 Apprentice
Maybe, maybe not. Tirz is better for insulin sensitivity than sema. Possible that while not raising metabolism per se, better nutrient partitioning.
I noticed for me, glps act as like a damper. Evens out highs and lows. Helped greatly with seasonal depression which would lead to binge eating to feel something positive. Helped on both fronts there. Lows weren't as low and any binges are way more modest. Not the wake up in a hangover next to an empty pizza box and candy wrappers lol.
But notice less excitement with things. Still do things I enjoy but less amped, if that makes sense. And have a more take it or leave it attitude. Possibly hurts dating, more of a meh, not worth it attitude, and chalk it up to lack of chemistry.
lessthanhalf
GLP-1 Specialist
In a way what GLP drugs do in humans is odd, in that it does not seem to do a whole lot overall. In animal studies it substantially changes the functions of reward circuitry, and this effect is part of why people eat less on it and take less drugs and alcohol, but it just does not seem to have large dramatic effects on people's mood or behaviour or at least in most people, given that it rewires pretty basic brain circuitry.
