Deep Sleep Peptides

squig33

squig33

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Hey all! What sleep-focused peptides have you taken? I'm doing some initial research and would like to know your experiences.

I sleep okay, but not great. I have sleep apnea and have struggled with insomnia since COVID. It's like my brain is asleep but my body won't calm down. I've tried different types of magnesium and sleep-cocktail supplements and they've all been meh.

I've been reading about Epitalon which would interesting. On another form a guide recommended 0.5MG dose daily for a 10 day cycle once per month. Has anyone tried that?
 
If [obstructive] sleep apnea is primarily caused by obesity, the weight loss & anti inflammatory effect of GLP-1/GIP agonists like Tizepatide are proven to reduce it:

"Tirzepatide effectively reduces the severity of obstructive sleep apnea in patients with obesity by significantly lowering the apnea-hypopnea index and promoting weight loss. These effects, along with improvements in other health markers, suggest that tirzepatide could be a valuable treatment option for managing OSA in obese individuals."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tirzepatide for the Treatment of Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Obesity - PubMed

Among persons with moderate-to-severe obstructive sleep apnea and obesity, tirzepatide reduced the AHI, body weight, hypoxic burden, hsCRP concentration, and systolic blood pressure and improved sleep-related patient-reported outcomes. (Funded by Eli Lilly; SURMOUNT-OSA ClinicalTrials.gov...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

> Atul Malhotra et al. "Tirzepatide for the Treatment of Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Obesity.." The New England journal of medicine (2024). https://doi.org/10.1056/nejmoa2404881.

> et al. "Tirzepatide reduces sleep events in patients with sleep apnea and obesity." The Brown University Psychopharmacology Update (2024). https://doi.org/10.1002/pu.31214.


Anectodaly, growth hormone-releasing hormones & peptides (GHRH/P), like Tesamorelin, are known to improve slow wave sleep, but as far as I understand the literature evidence is sparse:

"Tesamorelin is a growth hormone-releasing hormone analog primarily studied for its effects on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in individuals with HIV. While the primary focus of research has been on its impact on liver fat and histology, there is limited direct information available regarding its effects on sleep, particularly deep sleep."

My personal experience suggests that Tesamorelin/Ipamorelin administration before sleep, definitely makes me sleepy and have a subjective impact on the kind of sleep I experience. However, my sleep analysis data did not really express any more frequent or longer phases of slow wave sleep; I was rather more prone to dehydration (as they cause water retention) and have experienced higher RHR (probably due to dehydration). As an indirect maybe positive side effect, nocturia will improve and so may one's sleep quality.
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Ipamorelin-cic no dac has given me massive sleep improvement. Less so with tesamorelin.
Click to expand...
Did you feel the sleep improvement with IPA and Tesa when combined? Or was the improvement only when taking IPA-cic without tesa?
 
sepehr said:
If [obstructive] sleep apnea is primarily caused by obesity, the weight loss & anti inflammatory effect of GLP-1/GIP agonists like Tizepatide are proven to reduce it:

"Tirzepatide effectively reduces the severity of obstructive sleep apnea in patients with obesity by significantly lowering the apnea-hypopnea index and promoting weight loss. These effects, along with improvements in other health markers, suggest that tirzepatide could be a valuable treatment option for managing OSA in obese individuals."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tirzepatide for the Treatment of Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Obesity - PubMed

Among persons with moderate-to-severe obstructive sleep apnea and obesity, tirzepatide reduced the AHI, body weight, hypoxic burden, hsCRP concentration, and systolic blood pressure and improved sleep-related patient-reported outcomes. (Funded by Eli Lilly; SURMOUNT-OSA ClinicalTrials.gov...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

> Atul Malhotra et al. "Tirzepatide for the Treatment of Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Obesity.." The New England journal of medicine (2024). https://doi.org/10.1056/nejmoa2404881.

> et al. "Tirzepatide reduces sleep events in patients with sleep apnea and obesity." The Brown University Psychopharmacology Update (2024). https://doi.org/10.1002/pu.31214.


Anectodaly, growth hormone-releasing hormones & peptides (GHRH/P), like Tesamorelin, are known to improve slow wave sleep, but as far as I understand the literature evidence is sparse:

"Tesamorelin is a growth hormone-releasing hormone analog primarily studied for its effects on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in individuals with HIV. While the primary focus of research has been on its impact on liver fat and histology, there is limited direct information available regarding its effects on sleep, particularly deep sleep."

My personal experience suggests that Tesamorelin/Ipamorelin administration before sleep, definitely makes me sleepy and have a subjective impact on the kind of sleep I experience. However, my sleep analysis data did not really express any more frequent or longer phases of slow wave sleep; I was rather more prone to dehydration (as they cause water retention) and have experienced higher RHR (probably due to dehydration). As an indirect maybe positive side effect, nocturia will improve and so may one's sleep quality.
Click to expand...

That is a super interesting study on Triz and OSA . I was able to grab the full PDF from https://gwern.net/doc/longevity/glp/tirzepatide/2024-malhotra.pdf and I will give this a full read thank you for calling it out.

When you talk about Tesa/IPA causing water retention and dehydration, I don't understand the connection there. Wouldn't water retention cause you to be more hydrated not less?
 
squig33 said:
That is a super interesting study on Triz and OSA . I was able to grab the full PDF from https://gwern.net/doc/longevity/glp/tirzepatide/2024-malhotra.pdf and I will give this a full read thank you for calling it out.

When you talk about Tesa/IPA causing water retention and dehydration, I don't understand the connection there. Wouldn't water retention cause you to be more hydrated not less?
Click to expand...
No, because where the water is matters. You're retaining it in places where it is not available for other systems.
 
squig33 said:
That is a super interesting study on Triz and OSA . I was able to grab the full PDF from https://gwern.net/doc/longevity/glp/tirzepatide/2024-malhotra.pdf and I will give this a full read thank you for calling it out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this link, very interesting study. Sleep has always been a huge problem for me and I suspect my weight to play a factor in that.

From that PDF after a year the tirz trials showed almost a 60% reduction in sleep apnea events compared to placebo and the researchers noted that additional weight loss/time on tirz could bring this down even further. Also interesting to note that both tirz and placebo groups were instructed to get some level of exercise and maintain a diet and calorie deficit, so just plain diet and exercising not anywhere near effective as including tirz.

Very promising, I think i'm just gonna stay diligent with tirz and hope it helps rather than pin random peptides to treat my sleep issues.
 
DSIP, EPI, KPV, Ta-1/Thymulin.
For tough sleep issues, insomnia, circadian rhythm disruption etc, often the short, low mcg protocols won't be of much help. Longer protocols and higher dosing are usually more effective. I have all those sleep issues.

I started with DSIP, settled around 200mcg-300mcg, taken a couple of hours before I want to sleep, has helped me get much deeper sleep, but DSIP won't help get you to sleep faster. I used it nightly for 3 months, and will cycle back onto it when I need it.

A week after I began DSIP, I started EPI, and started there at 300mcg, went as high as 1mg over the course of 3 months, but 300-500mcg was the right dosing for me. With Epi, I tried it first mid-day, some it energizes, some it makes tired. It energized me, so I took it in the AM until I no longer felt it energizing me and moved it to PM, usually an hour or so after DSIP.

When I cycled off DSIP, I kept the Epi and added in KPV - lots of benefits with that pep, as with Epi, and I like that combo a lot.

When I cycled off Epi recently, I kept the KPV and when I finish my current vial, I will be trying Pinealon and either DSIP or another pep I am forgetting.

I also mixed what I call the KPV Glow - I didn't much like KPV in the ghk-cu/bpc-157/tb500(4) in part b/c the KPV and BPC-157 are in ways duplicative, but I do like the new vial I blended of ghk-cu, GHK Basic, KPV. And use that early evening. Helps as well with my sleep.

Over the course of the 3 months, I find I'm actually getting tired earlier, and my sleep anxiety has largely abated, and I'm falling instantly and deeply asleep. Even if I wake during the night, which I usually do, I'm able to fall back to sleep either instantly or within a very short time, when before I'd be up for hours.

Yesterday, to avoid getting sick I decided to start an immunity protocol of TA-1/Thymulin which runs 10-14 days, TA-1 1.5mg and THY 1mg nightly. Pinned separately. I slept very well last night using those and eager to see if it holds true tonight.
 
Epitalon 200-400 mcg doing the 10 day/ month protocol has helped my sleep brain patterns normalize, which has been rare since covid. I also just finished a CJC/Ipa run which also seemed to help. Valerian extract is another one to research outside of peptides.
 
squig33 said:
That is a super interesting study on Triz and OSA . I was able to grab the full PDF from https://gwern.net/doc/longevity/glp/tirzepatide/2024-malhotra.pdf and I will give this a full read thank you for calling it out.

When you talk about Tesa/IPA causing water retention and dehydration, I don't understand the connection there. Wouldn't water retention cause you to be more hydrated not less?
Click to expand...
Glad it was helpful.

Good question. My understanding is that water retention is different from hydration.

Water Retention refers to the body holding onto extra fluid, often in tissues (e.g., swelling in ankles, hands, or face). For me, especially under the eyes. It’s not necessarily useful hydration because the water isn’t where it should be (like inside the cells) and might not functionally improve hydration.

Dehydration refers to a lack of water in the body, in useful places, particularly within cells and the bloodstream, impairing essential physiological functions.

Water Retention leads to imbalances in electrolytes (e.g., sodium, potassium), it can impair water absorption into cells, creating a paradoxical effect where body retains water but feels dehydrated at the cellular level (e.g., fatigue, thirst).

In other shorter words, water retention happens extracellularly, hydration (or lack there of), happens intracellularly.

Again, this is my layman understanding. Take with a grain of salt.
 
sepehr said:
Glad it was helpful.

Good question. My understanding is that water retention is different from hydration.

Water Retention refers to the body holding onto extra fluid, often in tissues (e.g., swelling in ankles, hands, or face). For me, especially under the eyes. It’s not necessarily useful hydration because the water isn’t where it should be (like inside the cells) and might not functionally improve hydration.

Dehydration refers to a lack of water in the body, in useful places, particularly within cells and the bloodstream, impairing essential physiological functions.

Water Retention leads to imbalances in electrolytes (e.g., sodium, potassium), it can impair water absorption into cells, creating a paradoxical effect where body retains water but feels dehydrated at the cellular level (e.g., fatigue, thirst).

In other shorter words, water retention happens extracellularly, hydration (or lack there of), happens intracellularly.

Again, this is my layman understanding. Take with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
And not to forget another sign of water retention: edema in joints that are suffering from mild to severe arthrisis. For me, a pulsing noise, in the right knee is an alarm to stop and give the pins a rest.
 
Background: Have no issues falling asleep

DSIP has helped achieve an extra hour of deep sleep at least once or twice a week since taking it. It's not some miracle pep for me but it has helped. My my work schedule has me going to sleep really late at least twice a week so I'm not very consistent with my sleep schedule.
 
I think the sleep peptides are pretty sus except things related to growth hormone. Probably get more out of over the counter supplements. I don’t think vigorous Steve has any peptides in his sleep stack.
 
glpfun said:
I think the sleep peptides are pretty sus except things related to growth hormone. Probably get more out of over the counter supplements. I don’t think vigorous Steve has any peptides in his sleep stack.
Click to expand...
Sleep peps are definitely not sus for me. Melatonin never worked, OTC the same. Sleep peps do, they work for me. Vigorous Steve is not someone I heed 😂
 
I'm skeptical of most anyone discussing specific peptide stacks, even people like dr. seeds - a lot of this stuff has so little real scientific research that basically everything is anecdotal, super small sample size, etc. so many confounding factors.

If it works for you and to the best of your knowledge you're not significantly risking your health in doing it, for whatever reason, seems reasonable to go for it.
 
hexagonal said:
I'm skeptical of most anyone discussing specific peptide stacks, even people like dr. seeds - a lot of this stuff has so little real scientific research that basically everything is anecdotal, super small sample size, etc. so many confounding factors.

If it works for you and to the best of your knowledge you're not significantly risking your health in doing it, for whatever reason, seems reasonable to go for it.
Click to expand...
That's so true. The more I learn about this space, the more I think I'm shooting in the dark at an unknown risk rate.
 
Speaking of Tesamorelin, my data suggests it could affect my REM duration and overnight HRV negatively. It is something I also heard on Huberman's episode on peptides.
 
MingHenry said:
DSIP, EPI, KPV, Ta-1/Thymulin.
For tough sleep issues, insomnia, circadian rhythm disruption etc, often the short, low mcg protocols won't be of much help. Longer protocols and higher dosing are usually more effective. I have all those sleep issues.

I started with DSIP, settled around 200mcg-300mcg, taken a couple of hours before I want to sleep, has helped me get much deeper sleep, but DSIP won't help get you to sleep faster. I used it nightly for 3 months, and will cycle back onto it when I need it.

A week after I began DSIP, I started EPI, and started there at 300mcg, went as high as 1mg over the course of 3 months, but 300-500mcg was the right dosing for me. With Epi, I tried it first mid-day, some it energizes, some it makes tired. It energized me, so I took it in the AM until I no longer felt it energizing me and moved it to PM, usually an hour or so after DSIP.

When I cycled off DSIP, I kept the Epi and added in KPV - lots of benefits with that pep, as with Epi, and I like that combo a lot.

When I cycled off Epi recently, I kept the KPV and when I finish my current vial, I will be trying Pinealon and either DSIP or another pep I am forgetting.

I also mixed what I call the KPV Glow - I didn't much like KPV in the ghk-cu/bpc-157/tb500(4) in part b/c the KPV and BPC-157 are in ways duplicative, but I do like the new vial I blended of ghk-cu, GHK Basic, KPV. And use that early evening. Helps as well with my sleep.

Over the course of the 3 months, I find I'm actually getting tired earlier, and my sleep anxiety has largely abated, and I'm falling instantly and deeply asleep. Even if I wake during the night, which I usually do, I'm able to fall back to sleep either instantly or within a very short time, when before I'd be up for hours.

Yesterday, to avoid getting sick I decided to start an immunity protocol of TA-1/Thymulin which runs 10-14 days, TA-1 1.5mg and THY 1mg nightly. Pinned separately. I slept very well last night using those and eager to see if it holds true tonight
Click to expand...

The more reading I do, I am finding "longer " protocols are better. A positive impact on sleep may not be noticed for days or even weeks. Peps that help sleep don't work like sedatives so you may not notice any change in sleep the day or night you take them; admittedly this was my expectation! They build up in the system and makes changes over time.
People report taking Dsip on a Monday with improved sleep Wednesday-Friday. (I don't have the source readily available)

I've run Dsip, Pinelaon, Epithalon, ipa/cjc.
Falling asleep and staying asleep has been an issue for me for years and the older I get, the more challenging it becomes; which is unfortunate as "repair" is essential to good physical and mental health.

Initially I quit Dsip expecting quick results, but I'm back on a regular daily schedule.
It energizes me, so I take it in the morning. I have both sub q and IN. It's only been a week; nothing to report.

Epitalon; running the 10 day a month protocol. Didn't notice any effect until day 6. My body became "naturally" tired around 8:30pm - which never happens so some changes are occurring; what I can't say.

I ran Pinealon alone but not very long. It energizes me so I take it early.
It does not "induce" sleep however, I felt more refreshed when I wake. Once I finish my Dsip study, I will go back to running a full Pinealon protocol. Stimulates the pineal gland to make melatonin among other things. I'm encouraged by what I'm finding about Pinealon.

The only combo I've tried that "induces" sleep is ipa/cjc no dac. I'm doing that 5 day on 2 off protocol. It definitely works.

Edit:: final mention :: Selank is great to help induce sleep as well. I use selank and semax "as needed ".
 
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Valerie said:
The more reading I do, I am finding "longer " protocols are better. A positive impact on sleep may not be noticed for days or even weeks. Peps that help sleep don't work like sedatives so you may not notice any change in sleep the day or night you take them; admittedly this was my expectation! They build up in the system and makes changes over time.
People report taking Dsip on a Monday with improved sleep Wednesday-Friday. (I don't have the source readily available)

I've run Dsip, Pinelaon, Epithalon, ipa/cjc.
Falling asleep and staying asleep has been an issue for me for years and the older I get, the more challenging it becomes; which is unfortunate as "repair" is essential to good physical and mental health.

Initially I quit Dsip expecting quick results, but I'm back on a regular daily schedule.
It energizes me, so I take it in the morning. I have both sub q and IN. It's only been a week; nothing to report.

Epitalon; running the 10 day a month protocol. Didn't notice any effect until day 6. My body became "naturally" tired around 8:30pm - which never happens so some changes are occurring; what I can't say.

I ran Pinealon alone but not very long. It energizes me so I take it early.
It does not "induce" sleep however, I felt more refreshed when I wake. Once I finish my Dsip study, I will go back to running a full Pinealon protocol. Stimulates the pineal gland to make melatonin among other things. I'm encouraged by what I'm finding about Pinealon.

The only combo I've tried that "induces" sleep is ipa/cjc no dac. I'm doing that 5 day on 2 off protocol. It definitely works.

Edit:: final mention :: Selank is great to help induce sleep as well. I use selank and semax "as needed ".
Click to expand...
This is such a good reply! I will be looking all of those up your experiences are great to read about.
 
Found this really helpful! I struggle with falling asleep, and then with 2 kids, deep sleep is harder to achieve.
 
Valerie said:
The more reading I do, I am finding "longer " protocols are better. A positive impact on sleep may not be noticed for days or even weeks. Peps that help sleep don't work like sedatives so you may not notice any change in sleep the day or night you take them; admittedly this was my expectation! They build up in the system and makes changes over time.
People report taking Dsip on a Monday with improved sleep Wednesday-Friday. (I don't have the source readily available)

I've run Dsip, Pinelaon, Epithalon, ipa/cjc.
Falling asleep and staying asleep has been an issue for me for years and the older I get, the more challenging it becomes; which is unfortunate as "repair" is essential to good physical and mental health.

Initially I quit Dsip expecting quick results, but I'm back on a regular daily schedule.
It energizes me, so I take it in the morning. I have both sub q and IN. It's only been a week; nothing to report.

Epitalon; running the 10 day a month protocol. Didn't notice any effect until day 6. My body became "naturally" tired around 8:30pm - which never happens so some changes are occurring; what I can't say.

I ran Pinealon alone but not very long. It energizes me so I take it early.
It does not "induce" sleep however, I felt more refreshed when I wake. Once I finish my Dsip study, I will go back to running a full Pinealon protocol. Stimulates the pineal gland to make melatonin among other things. I'm encouraged by what I'm finding about Pinealon.

The only combo I've tried that "induces" sleep is ipa/cjc no dac. I'm doing that 5 day on 2 off protocol. It definitely works.

Edit:: final mention :: Selank is great to help induce sleep as well. I use selank and semax "as needed ".
Click to expand...
Are there any biomarkers you are tracking like IGF-1 or other labs related to these as you test?

I am thinking of running a Tesa/IPA cycle. When did you dose for IPA? Before bed?
 
For me, only Selank, passionflower and Magnolia Bark (Relora) supplements have helped induce sleep. But if taken daily, they don’t seem effective at all.

Other than Magnesium, I believe anything we take for sleep should be cycled.
 
squig33 said:
Are there any biomarkers you are tracking like IGF-1 or other labs related to these as you test?

I am thinking of running a Tesa/IPA cycle. When did you dose for IPA? Before bed?
Click to expand...
I have not tracked bio markers or taken labs.
Ipa cjc is taken 2 hrs after eating before bed and no food 30min afterwards. Drowsy within 10 minutes, no next day hangover.
 
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