8 Week Ipa/Tesa Stack Bloodwork

[hexagonal]

Will have to wait for the DEXA in a few weeks to see what, if any, impact it had on visceral fat and muscle growth, but:

.300mgish of ipa, 2mg of tesa nightly after 2+ hours of fasting, 5 days on, 2 days off.

Glucose increased from 92 to 105 (Slightly out of range)
Insulin increased from to 46.2 from 22.4 (Moderately out of range)
HbA1c dropped from 5.2 to 5 (Optimal range)
IGF-1 increased to 351 (Teen/Early 20s range)


Insulin levels are probably the most interesting here - most indications are that when IGF-1/GH levels drop, insulin resistance drops pretty quickly as well, which underscores why a lot of recommendations around this are to cycle off rather than being on it indefinitely. I've got one week left for this kit, so I'll do the full 10 weeks and then take some time off and see how all of those levels fare. In theory that insulin level would be beneficial for muscle growth, but not something I would want to risk long term.

I've got some HGH so I might see how I respond to it at 2IU and 4IU a day, with the same 5 days on 2 days off I did with ipa/tesa.

 

[G Vice]

Looking forward to your future test results and experiences.
Will try tesa-ipa for the first time in a month or so when my kit arrives. Looking for a little bump in GH and TEST, while not throwing my otherwise-good bloodwork out of whack.

 

[hexagonal]

Looking forward to your future test results and experiences.
Will try tesa-ipa for the first time in a month or so when my kit arrives. Looking for a little bump in GH and TEST, while not throwing my otherwise-good bloodwork out of whack.

Not sure if it will bump test any, but I'm on TRT, sitting around mid 700s total, 25 free.

 

[G Vice]

Not sure if it will bump test any, but I'm on TRT, sitting around mid 700s total, 25 free.

"sitting around mid 700s total, 25 free."

Good numbers.

I'm at 259 total and 12.0 free. LH and FSH in normal range. Trying the non-TRT options first.

 

[hexagonal]

"sitting around mid 700s total, 25 free."

Good numbers.

I'm at 259 total and 12.0 free. LH and FSH in normal range. Trying the non-TRT options first.

Yeah, I was below 200 on multiple tests before TRT. It's been a huge QOL improvement going on it.

 

[hexagonal]

Gained roughly 5lb of LBM (specifically went in less hydrated than my first dexa on purpose so hopefully that's mostly muscle) and lost over 3.5lb of visceral fat based on the dexa. They have some margin of error.

I was on reta and TRT during this period, so both of those would likely impact the visceral fat, and trt the muscle gain. I lift 5 days a week and also lost more than 30lb over that period in general.

 

[DaddyBigRig]

What are you measuring here? Tesa/Ipa are the weakest compounds in your stack.

 

[hexagonal]

What are you measuring here? Tesa/Ipa are the weakest compounds in your stack.

Do you mean in the blood markers or the dexa?

For the blood markers, most of those shouldn't be particularly impacted by TRT at all, outside of body composition change's impacts. IGF-1 definitely doesn't get up into the 350+ range from TRT, and many people see zero impact to it at all.

For the dexa, I am getting them regularly anyway, and tesa in particular is supposed to show marked reductions in visceral fat, at least in HIV patients. Obviously, reta does a lot there as well. Just providing a general data point - and I'd be curious if people on just reta saw similar VAT reduction at similar amounts of weight loss, etc.

 

[zpped]

Do you mean in the blood markers or the dexa?

For the blood markers, most of those shouldn't be particularly impacted by TRT at all, outside of body composition change's impacts. IGF-1 definitely doesn't get up into the 350+ range from TRT, and many people see zero impact to it at all.

For the dexa, I am getting them regularly anyway, and tesa in particular is supposed to show marked reductions in visceral fat, at least in HIV patients. Obviously, reta does a lot there as well. Just providing a general data point - and I'd be curious if people on just reta saw similar VAT reduction at similar amounts of weight loss, etc.

You have updated labs for igf and insulin post cycle yet?

 

[hexagonal]

You have updated labs for igf and insulin post cycle yet?

I do, don't have exact #s with me right now, but both dropped back down to in-range by 4 weeks after stopping, both were towards the upper middle. hba1c still 5. I did end up only doing 9 weeks because I dropped the last vial

I've swapped to 3IU of HGH and increased my berberine intake. I also started on telmisartan via telyrx (telehealth prescription, no appointment, seems to be honor system based...), which I know has some secondary benefits on blood glucose and insulin sensitivity. Going to give that some time, get more blood work, move up to 4IU if things look good.

 

[steven57]

I do, don't have exact #s with me right now, but both dropped back down to in-range by 4 weeks after stopping, both were towards the upper middle. hba1c still 5. I did end up only doing 9 weeks because I dropped the last vial

I've swapped to 3IU of HGH and increased my berberine intake. I also started on telmisartan via telyrx (telehealth prescription, no appointment, seems to be honor system based...), which I know has some secondary benefits on blood glucose and insulin sensitivity. Going to give that some time, get more blood work, move up to 4IU if things look good.

Apparently Telmisartan has many benefits to help visceral fat loss, anti-aging, prostate cancer, insulin sensitivity…and more…

 

[stickfigure]

Telmisartan for visceral fat? You sure you are not confusing it with Tesamorelin?

 

[hexagonal]

Telmisartan for visceral fat? You sure you are not confusing it with Tesamorelin?

Nope, telmisartan has an impressive list of beneficial effects.

Effects of telmisartan on fat distribution: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials - PubMed

The findings suggest that telmisartan affected fat distribution, inducing visceral fat reduction, and thus could be useful in hypertensive patients with obesity/overweight, metabolic syndrome, or glucose intolerance.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[G Vice]

Telmisartan is new to me. Thanks for sharing.
Based on that article, I would assume you wouldn’t want to take this if you are not hypertensive. If you have normal blood pressure, this would give you low blood pressure. Because that’s what ACE inhibitors do.

 

[hexagonal]

Telmisartan is new to me. Thanks for sharing.
Based on that article, I would assume you wouldn’t want to take this if you are not hypertensive. If you have normal blood pressure, this would give you low blood pressure. Because that’s what ACE inhibitors do.

Some people report minimal change to their BP when used at normal BP levels, and we keep lowering the target on what a normal BP is - the American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association recently changed it to under 120/80.

You don't want to go hypotensive, of course, and some people do report pretty significant responses to it, so no guarantees.

Which is all to say I'd be comfortable starting at a low dose even if I was in the 110s/70s, but I'd also be checking my BP frequently.

 

[steven57]

Yeah, I've got some ipa/cjc, but haven't tried them yet. I'm in my mid/late 30s, so I guess I've got a bit of an age advantage! Or perhaps tesa is more impactful than cjc?

205 from 1.5IUs 3 times a week seems pretty solid, though!

Telmisartan for visceral fat? You sure you are not confusing it with Tesamorelin?

no, no confusion… go to scholar.google.com search telmisartan…

 

[steven57]

Nope, telmisartan has an impressive list of beneficial effects.

Effects of telmisartan on fat distribution: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials - PubMed

The findings suggest that telmisartan affected fat distribution, inducing visceral fat reduction, and thus could be useful in hypertensive patients with obesity/overweight, metabolic syndrome, or glucose intolerance.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

another of many “old” drugs with numerous uses that are off patent…therefore no motivation for big pharma to repurpose…only a few true academics able to obtain funding (that’s going away quickly) still investigating medications for the sake of medical use rather than profit…OMFG!!

 

[steven57]

Telmisartan is new to me. Thanks for sharing.
Based on that article, I would assume you wouldn’t want to take this if you are not hypertensive. If you have normal blood pressure, this would give you low blood pressure. Because that’s what ACE inhibitors do.

Curiously, one can start with low dose and slowly build up without too much hypotension…my blood pressure ran around 120/80…now about 115/70…Likely depends on many factors including something as simple as salt intake…
I am 67 years young, 5’9” and weigh 150# - a weight I haven’t experienced in 40 years…underneath the sagging skin, a hint of a six pack, after a year of pilates.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

my weight loss got seriously derailed when going on tesa,

too much shit going on.