Considering Survodutide

seems pretty quiet around here. if you do decide to try it out, would be great for you to post your experience here.
i'm not much familiar with it, i just did a quick google for clinical trials and it seems like weight loss results are about on par with semaglutide but not as good as tirzepatide. any specific reason you want to try it?
 
i saw that one trial, the highest dose was 4.8mg. promo price is 100mg for $170 so that's about 20 doses for $170, seems about the same per dose as tirz. (not saying that's good or bad, just working out the math here out loud)
 
seems pretty quiet around here. if you do decide to try it out, would be great for you to post your experience here.
i'm not much familiar with it, i just did a quick google for clinical trials and it seems like weight loss results are about on par with semaglutide but not as good as tirzepatide. any specific reason you want to try it?

I'm on Tirz now...

It's really between Retatrutide and Survodutide... Reta can cause an increase in resting heart rate, where Survo is reported not to have that side effect. That's the main reason I'm curious about Survo.

Why not blaze some new territory? But then Reta 100mg is 125 on promo...
 
yeah go for it, i realized after that my reply may have come across as argumentative, i didn't mean for it to. i'm curious about it too, and also curious how people make the decisions on which products to use. basically i originally chose tirz because it showed greater weight loss percentages than semaglutide and i needed to lose over 20%. but other people decide for different reasons (like the heart rate thing, some people decide on price, availability of compound, etc). i think it's interesting that it seems like people do develop a bit of loyalty to their first glp1 if it works for them.

but i haven't seen much talk about survo so was just wondering how it caught your attention.

if you go for it, good luck.
 
yeah go for it, i realized after that my reply may have come across as argumentative, i didn't mean for it to. i'm curious about it too, and also curious how people make the decisions on which products to use. basically i originally chose tirz because it showed greater weight loss percentages than semaglutide and i needed to lose over 20%. but other people decide for different reasons (like the heart rate thing, some people decide on price, availability of compound, etc). i think it's interesting that it seems like people do develop a bit of loyalty to their first glp1 if it works for them.

but i haven't seen much talk about survo so was just wondering how it caught your attention.

if you go for it, good luck.

Nah, I didn't take it as argumentative at all.

I started on Semaglutide because it was the lowest cost compound option. And I think my provider steered me that direction thinking we'd always have Tirz in our back pocket should Sema not work.
 
I'm super interested in survo, but I have a freezer full of Sema and have some tirz arriving tomorrow.... I might just take the leap. I am just hesitant because I haven't seen anyone else on it. Keep meaning to join other forums to see if anyone has actually tried it.
 
This may help many of you guys out, have a look at the Ki values.
 

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Had to use chatgpt...

Google isn't helping me here and I'm feeling incredibly dumb for not quite understanding what these numbers mean.

The GLP-1 K value is a measure of the binding affinity of a ligand (such as a GLP-1 receptor agonist) to the GLP-1 receptor. GLP-1 (glucagon-like peptide-1) is a hormone that plays a role in glucose metabolism, and its receptor is a target for drugs used in the treatment of type 2 diabetes and obesity.

Key points about the GLP-1 K value:​

  1. Definition of K value:
    • The "K" generally refers to a dissociation constant (KdK_dKd) or inhibition constant (KiK_iKi), depending on the context.
    • KdK_dKd: Reflects the concentration of ligand at which half of the available receptors are bound.
    • KiK_iKi: Indicates the potency of a compound in inhibiting receptor binding.
  2. Units:
    • The KdK_dKd or KiK_iKi is typically expressed in molar concentrations (e.g., nM, μM).
    • Lower KdK_dKd or KiK_iKi values indicate higher affinity, meaning the ligand binds more tightly to the receptor.
  3. Significance in GLP-1 receptor agonists:
    • A low K value suggests a strong and specific interaction between the drug and the GLP-1 receptor.
    • Drugs like semaglutide and liraglutide are engineered to have high affinity and prolonged activity at the GLP-1 receptor, often reflected in low KdK_dKd values.
  4. Experimental determination:
    • The KKK value is determined through in vitro binding studies, using methods like radioligand binding assays or surface plasmon resonance.
The GCGR KiK_iKi value refers to the inhibition constant for the glucagon receptor (GCGR). It measures how effectively a compound, such as a drug or inhibitor, can block the interaction of glucagon (or another ligand) with the glucagon receptor.

Breaking Down the Term:​

  1. GCGR (Glucagon Receptor):
    • GCGR is a G-protein-coupled receptor (GPCR) that binds glucagon, a hormone involved in glucose metabolism. Activation of GCGR stimulates glucose production in the liver, playing a key role in blood sugar regulation.
  2. KiK_iKi (Inhibition Constant):
    • KiK_iKi quantifies the potency of an inhibitor in preventing a ligand (like glucagon) from binding to the receptor.
    • It is defined as the equilibrium constant for the dissociation of the inhibitor-receptor complex.
    • Lower KiK_iKi values indicate higher inhibitory potency because the compound binds more tightly to the receptor.
  3. Units:
    • KiK_iKi is typically expressed in molar concentrations (e.g., nanomolar [nM] or micromolar [μM]).
  4. How it’s Measured:
    • KiK_iKi is determined experimentally, often through competitive binding assays. These assays involve measuring how well an inhibitor competes with a radiolabeled or fluorescent ligand for binding to the receptor.
  5. Significance:
    • KiK_iKi helps assess the efficacy of potential drugs targeting the glucagon receptor, particularly for conditions like type 2 diabetes.
    • Drugs with low KiK_iKi values for GCGR might act as antagonists to reduce excessive glucagon activity, which can help in managing hyperglycemia.
 
Had to use chatgpt...



The GLP-1 K value is a measure of the binding affinity of a ligand (such as a GLP-1 receptor agonist) to the GLP-1 receptor. GLP-1 (glucagon-like peptide-1) is a hormone that plays a role in glucose metabolism, and its receptor is a target for drugs used in the treatment of type 2 diabetes and obesity.

Key points about the GLP-1 K value:​

  1. Definition of K value:
    • The "K" generally refers to a dissociation constant (KdK_dKd) or inhibition constant (KiK_iKi), depending on the context.
    • KdK_dKd: Reflects the concentration of ligand at which half of the available receptors are bound.
    • KiK_iKi: Indicates the potency of a compound in inhibiting receptor binding.
  2. Units:
    • The KdK_dKd or KiK_iKi is typically expressed in molar concentrations (e.g., nM, μM).
    • Lower KdK_dKd or KiK_iKi values indicate higher affinity, meaning the ligand binds more tightly to the receptor.
  3. Significance in GLP-1 receptor agonists:
    • A low K value suggests a strong and specific interaction between the drug and the GLP-1 receptor.
    • Drugs like semaglutide and liraglutide are engineered to have high affinity and prolonged activity at the GLP-1 receptor, often reflected in low KdK_dKd values.
  4. Experimental determination:
    • The KKK value is determined through in vitro binding studies, using methods like radioligand binding assays or surface plasmon resonance.
The GCGR KiK_iKi value refers to the inhibition constant for the glucagon receptor (GCGR). It measures how effectively a compound, such as a drug or inhibitor, can block the interaction of glucagon (or another ligand) with the glucagon receptor.

Breaking Down the Term:​

  1. GCGR (Glucagon Receptor):
    • GCGR is a G-protein-coupled receptor (GPCR) that binds glucagon, a hormone involved in glucose metabolism. Activation of GCGR stimulates glucose production in the liver, playing a key role in blood sugar regulation.
  2. KiK_iKi (Inhibition Constant):
    • KiK_iKi quantifies the potency of an inhibitor in preventing a ligand (like glucagon) from binding to the receptor.
    • It is defined as the equilibrium constant for the dissociation of the inhibitor-receptor complex.
    • Lower KiK_iKi values indicate higher inhibitory potency because the compound binds more tightly to the receptor.
  3. Units:
    • KiK_iKi is typically expressed in molar concentrations (e.g., nanomolar [nM] or micromolar [μM]).
  4. How it’s Measured:
    • KiK_iKi is determined experimentally, often through competitive binding assays. These assays involve measuring how well an inhibitor competes with a radiolabeled or fluorescent ligand for binding to the receptor.
  5. Significance:
    • KiK_iKi helps assess the efficacy of potential drugs targeting the glucagon receptor, particularly for conditions like type 2 diabetes.
    • Drugs with low KiK_iKi values for GCGR might act as antagonists to reduce excessive glucagon activity, which can help in managing hyperglycemia.
Thank you, I appreciate this breakdown!
 
Thank you, I appreciate this breakdown!

Yeah I find myself using chatgpt more and more for answers to random questions. Remarkable tech really... one of those innovations that changed the landscape seemingly overnight. Maybe not changed for the better either now with pretend experts but really are just quick with ChatGPT.

If I use it, I usually say something like "From ChatGPT"...
 
Yeah I find myself using chatgpt more and more for answers to random questions. Remarkable tech really... one of those innovations that changed the landscape seemingly overnight. Maybe not changed for the better either now with pretend experts but really are just quick with ChatGPT.

If I use it, I usually say something like "From ChatGPT"...
I haven't dipped my toes in yet, but what you just did is getting pretty close to convincing me.
 
Yeah I find myself using chatgpt more and more for answers to random questions. Remarkable tech really... one of those innovations that changed the landscape seemingly overnight. Maybe not changed for the better either now with pretend experts but really are just quick with ChatGPT.

If I use it, I usually say something like "From ChatGPT"...
Do remember that ChatGPT (and other AIs) will confidently create false or not fully correct information on a regular basis, especially with more niche topics like this.

If you're using ChatGPT 4o, one of the ways to help it weed itself out by asking "are you sure?" and have it give you supporting source data at the end of each prompt response 🙂
 
I too am considering survo for long-term maintenance, due to lower/no side effects of fatigue like tirz, and studies showing greater reduction in liver fat. I'm already at goal weight and on maintenance dose of 5 mg tirz. I've got 2-3 yrs of tirz supply to either go through, or sell off. Hesitant to sell my tirz, because it would be at a loss $$ compared to what I paid. Have a kit of reta on the way, which will be a new try. Thankful for our shared research experiences!
 
Not much activity here.... There's a vendor with a good price on Survodutide and I'm strongly considering picking up a couple kits to research.

Anyone have experiences good or bad with Survo? Care to share?
Tried both serv and maz. Didn't seem to have as good appetite suppression so went back to tirz after 1 vial
 
Not much activity here.... There's a vendor with a good price on Survodutide and I'm strongly considering picking up a couple kits to research.

Anyone have experiences good or bad with Survo? Care to share?
I am in maintenance and like trying different things, but I only used it for a month. But it felt very similar to tirz in my opinion. I would recommend it as an alternative and imagine it would be a good candidate for weight loss.
You don’t ask, but I also tried maz and it felt like placebo.
 
Surv has a higher % of GCGR than Reta!
The GCGR being the fat targeting burner in both compounds.
I’m considering experimenting with stacking them both

it says the lower number is stronger so seems reta is stronger. are there studies where these numbers came from or how did someone figure out how much each one is?
 
I love survo! Only a few doses, as needed, at 125mcg, which is less than 1/2 the starting dose (300mcg). I'm in maintenance, have been since the fall, have slowly moved down on my tirz but there are times when I need a bit of help, not much, but to take the edge off. And since I don't want to increase the tirz - am trying to stay steady weight-wise and not lose more - the 125mcg dose just seems perfect. Of course such a small dose means a 10mg vial lasts forever, but I'm fine with that. I have not used it weekly at this point, nor am I thinking of switching over. I am not interested in cagri, nor in reta - the idea of starting over on a glp and one that requires higher dosing for the benefits I already have on tirz seems antithetical to me. For a brief moment, I had 1/2 kit of Maz but decided against it and sold it off. But survo strikes me as the right thing for now, providing just a bit of suppression when I need it. It also instantly warms me up inside. No idea what that is about.
 
That’s a really small dose -125 mcg. I read that the starting dose is 600 mcg (.6 mg). Pretty cool that you’re happy with what that small dose does for you.
That’s encouraging for me. You might recall I’m at that same point as you: dropped down to maintenance dose tirz 5.0 and looking to switch to something else. Have Reta that I didn’t try yet and survo on the way.
Not sure when I’ll make the jump to the new stuff.
 
Hi @G Vice, why are you looking to switch to something else? Just curious?

For me, tirz has all the benefits I require, and I don't feel a need at this point to stop tirz in favor of something else. I've had great luck with it, and feel why mess around? I do like the tiny bit of extra whatever that I have needed so far only once in a while that survo can help me with. All absolutely no side effects, and it seems to speed up both metabolism and digestion.

I think the survo clinical testing has two arms that relate to the ultimate maintenance dose - either 3.6 or 6. The 3.6 arm starts with a dose of 300mcg for 4 weeks and moves up to 600mcg for 4 weeks, and continues to move up every 4 weeks to 1.2mg, 2.4mg, 3.6mg, 4.8mg, and 6mg, with 3.6 being the maintenance dose. I guess the other arm started at 600mg and it's maintenance dose is 6mg.

125mcg is a tiny dose. I alway start anything far lower than a "protocol" states. And nearly always, for me, the tiny dosing works. For instance, I felt ss31 on 1mg. So I love that 125mcg of survo does what I hoped it would do.
 
Not much activity here.... There's a vendor with a good price on Survodutide and I'm strongly considering picking up a couple kits to research.

Anyone have experiences good or bad with Survo? Care to share?
 
Hey Ming.
I’m totally in agreement with staying with what got me the results I wanted.
However, tirz fatigue the 1-2 days after injection, although not bad, is something I’d like to get away from.
Survo seems to not cause fatigue, per reports, plus it is better at treating fatty liver and liver fibrosis, which is in my family history.
Those are 2 good reasons to switch.
 
@G Vice,

So sorry you still have that tirz fatigue, and to get away from the fatigue and having the family history of what survo addresses are both excellent reasons to switch! I haven't had that fatigue in a long time, I forget that some, even in maintenance, still have to deal with it. Also, the ss31 I'm researching has been incredible for my energy. No other "energy" pep but that one for the last 7 weeks and I never want to stop it! But onto mots next for me. Have you done the ss31/mots/nad protocol?
 
Not yet. I’ve got NAD+ and MOTS-c on order though. Been on order so long I need to re-read on how to start these.
 
I'm super interested in survo, but I have a freezer full of Sema and have some tirz arriving tomorrow.... I might just take the leap. I am just hesitant because I haven't seen anyone else on it. Keep meaning to join other forums to see if anyone has actually tried it.
who am I chopped liver? it seems to be doing a really good job. my heart rate is hovering around 100 which is borderline high.
 
i know, i just like to pick on you because i like you.

like in second grade...
That's how you train little girls to tolerate their boyfriends treating them like shit. Tell them boys are only mean because they like them.

How about train boys not to be dicks?

/soapbox

I'm glad the survo works for you 😂
 
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Hey Ming.
I’m totally in agreement with staying with what got me the results I wanted.
However, tirz fatigue the 1-2 days after injection, although not bad, is something I’d like to get away from.
Survo seems to not cause fatigue, per reports, plus it is better at treating fatty liver and liver fibrosis, which is in my family history.
Those are 2 good reasons to switch.
Survo (GLP1R) + GCGR) + Tirz (GIPR + GLP1R = Reta (GLP1, GCGR, GIPR)
 
I've just started stacking Soro with Triz this week. I'm hoping it will stop my plateau.
How did it work for you? I'm considering stacking it tirz also. Just to see if that GCGR helps any.
 
How did it work for you? I'm considering stacking it tirz also. Just to see if that GCGR helps any.
I add 1mg Survo 4 days after I do my Triz injection as a stack. Seems to keep the suppression going. I'm on max Triz, and it only seems to last for 4 days now. Adding the Survo on day 4 gets me to day 7 for the next Triz shot.

Used to do Triz+Cargi and then Reta+Cargi 4 days later, but its just to much injecting at the end of the week.

Triz/Survo is more convenient....
 
Currently im at 12mgs reta (6mgs twice a week) if I needed to change to survo how strong a dose would I need?
Also how strong is survo for fatty liver?
 
Is there any consensus at all about tirz + reta vs. tirz + survo? It seems the answer is "hell no"?

I am leaning towards trying survo first:

I'm using Triz as my base. But when it started to loose its effectiveness, I started stacking with Reta and Cargi. That worked great, except for the fatigue. Never had the Tachycardia.

Now I do Triz and Servo, and for me this is the magic bullet.
Survo really knocks down the food noise when used with Triz for me.

Reta spiked my rate to ~125 after only 2 hrs. after my first dose, and it took 4 weeks after stopping to return to my normal 68-70.
Started Tirz then at 2.5, have advanced to 7.5 every 5 days and and Surv2 3 days later and still normal HR.
One thing I was recommended to try with the Tirz after a few weeks was add 1mg of Survo 3 days after every Tirz. Adds more GLP-1 and Glucagon which makes it work a lot like Reta without the cardiac side effect and helps with the food noise. Absolutely happy with that so far. Problem is, one-size-fits-all doesn't work well in this research effort.
5 mg Tirz every 5 days with 2mg Survo 3 days later. Losing 2 - 3 lbs weekly, good satiety and the Survo took care of the food noise. Liking this combo.

Absolutely no suppression from 2mg or 4mg Reta. I was on 7.5mg Tirz then decided to stack with reta as a last push for the last 15lbs.

Idk what or how Reta does it, but those last 15lbs FELL OFF. I was dosing Tirz every 5 days, reta 2 days after Tirz.

I think if you don't struggle with overthinking about food, reta might be a solid single choice for you. But if you do, it's a good option to stack with a good suppression.

If your looking for something different then Tirz, Survo is a great place to start too

Edited to add:
I got a R24 kit from PGB that im letting go 350 shipped usps tracking
I stopped Reta after better results with survo and tirz
 
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Going to try some Survo as soon as a couple vials of Maz are gone. I've stacked it with 12mg Tirz and 1.3mg Cagri. I honestly can't tell that any of them are doing much. I dropped Reta because of tachycardia.
 
Your tachycardia with reta didn't mean more energy, right?
I have noticed being more tired during the day since dropping it. I've been off it for about a month and my heart rate has only dropped marginally.
Heck, if in another month it still hasn't dropped, I may as well go back to Reta.
 

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