If not tirz+cagri, then what?

clayd

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I have zero interest at all in getting into the drama about who's posting what about cagri and the personal attacks etc. Stay out of that here please.

I have seen enough to have some caution about China cag + bac water. Maybe it's solved by a pH adjustment, maybe not. Or maybe it doesn't need to be. I don't know really but let's say I'm ok with erring on the side of caution...

But my thing is lots of folks are trying cagri to offset the hunger of tirz on day 5-7 of the weekly cycle. So the problem is pretty defined: tirz doesn't last a week, we need a 3 day boost.

Let's assume for now that cagri isn't the answer. What is? A little semaglutide on day 5? My thought is maybe a 5-day tirz dosing schedule.

But id take a good 3 days of appetite suppression from anything definitely safe.

If not cagri, what do you think can provide the 3 day boost?
 
It doesn't have to be a peptide or GLP1. My wife had great success on contrave. What about a classic weight loss med like that or like liraglutide?
 
brentm said:
how about take tirz more frequently?

semaglutide?

You'll get objections to all of them...
Click to expand...
I think tirz every 5 days seems the most likely, 5 days requires some calendar diligence but should solve the issue. What it doesn't solve is all this cag in my freezer and my hopium that it was money well spent
 
Also not entirely opposed to adding a little 2.4 ph white vinegar to my cag
People will laugh but that's just acetic acid + water
 
clayd said:
I think tirz every 5 days seems the most likely, 5 days requires some calendar diligence but should solve the issue. What it doesn't solve is all this cag in my freezer and my hopium that it was money well spent
Click to expand...
I like Tirz + Sema.

My wife and I really respond well to it.

Sorry about the Cag in your freezer and that you aren't comfortable using it. I don't think I would use it... but then again, I wanted to always stay on the FDA-approved side of the fence.
 
brentm said:
I like Tirz + Sema.

My wife and I really respond well to it.

Sorry about the Cag in your freezer and that you aren't comfortable using it. I don't think I would use it... but then again, I wanted to always stay on the FDA-approved side of the fence.
Click to expand...
What's your dose schedule?
 
My entire pile of cagri is 50mg, I'm not too concerned that 50 mg will give me t2d or Alzheimer's, but I'm for now reluctant to reorder.
 
clayd said:
Also not entirely opposed to adding a little 2.4 ph white vinegar to my cag
People will laugh but that's just acetic acid + water
Click to expand...
I’m also curious about this. I’ve got a bunch of Cagri that I’d hate to see go unused. I saw some 0.6% acetic acid solution vials on a few peptide sites and even on Amazon, but I’m not sure if you reconstitute with that AND bac water or just the acetic acid solution. Or how much acetic acid to add to a vial you’ve already reconstituted with BAC water. Anything specific to how we achieve this pH of 4 would be incredibly helpful, preferably by someone who has done/is currently doing this.
Unfortunately I’ve invested many hours into searching for this info and am no closer to a solid, definite answer lol.
 
kayh9 said:
I’m also curious about this. I’ve got a bunch of Cagri that I’d hate to see go unused. I saw some 0.6% acetic acid solution vials on a few peptide sites and even on Amazon, but I’m not sure if you reconstitute with that AND bac water or just the acetic acid solution. Or how much acetic acid to add to a vial you’ve already reconstituted with BAC water. Anything specific to how we achieve this pH of 4 would be incredibly helpful, preferably by someone who has done/is currently doing this.
Unfortunately I’ve invested many hours into searching for this info and am no closer to a solid, definite answer lol.
Click to expand...
From what I've seen, most people ph test after adding bac and then add a few drops of the acetic acid to bring the ph down if needed. I've not seen anything more specific than this.
 
Consider mazdutide. My RS started it a few weeks ago, and has been able to titrate down on the cagri. Plan is to eventually discontinue cagri, and just use maz/tirz combo.
Maz mostly helps with satiety. RS cannot eat more than half of a serving at a time. It might work well for your research.
 
clayd said:
It doesn't have to be a peptide or GLP1. My wife had great success on contrave. What about a classic weight loss med like that or like liraglutide?
Click to expand...
As an aside, please be careful using contrave. It's a mix of bupropion and naltrexone, both of which have their own side effects. Bupropion lowers the seizure threshold so it's not appropriate for everyone, and can lead to suicidal impulses. It's a great drug, but has some issues people should be aware of before going in. (Not that everything doesn't have issues- we're here discussing cagri, reta has the potential for raised heart rate, etc.)
 
penewbie said:
No offense, but, with Tirz prices now in the $0.5-1/mg range, you could probably fund a couple months of the new schedule by cutting out a single Starbucks coffee.
Click to expand...
yeah tirz is getting cheaper. i make my coffee at home though.
 
Having taken cagri and probably shouldnt have. I would do the following first, personally. Some the below do not follow recommended guidelines by EL, but I'd probably explore them before resulting to cag.

1. Higher dose of my main glp
2. Switch to a 5 day schedule
3. Explore doses above the current recommendation (tirz studies at 20/25 happening)
4. Stack with Sema
5. Explore a stack with other glp1s
6. Explore other peptides/options.
 
clayd said:
It doesn't have to be a peptide or GLP1. My wife had great success on contrave. What about a classic weight loss med like that or like liraglutide?
Click to expand...
Uhh, contrave is a hybrid of naltrexone and the NDRI, Wellbutrin. You can’t cycle Wellbutrin and she WILL have withdrawals ever trying to get off of it. I’d try cycling a number of peptides and even cycling low dose naltrexone before committing to a daily psychotropic. I was on Wellbutrin for 5+ yrs and it made me suicidal during the 6months weaning off. Much better now tho.
 
chmuse said:
As an aside, please be careful using contrave. It's a mix of bupropion and naltrexone, both of which have their own side effects. Bupropion lowers the seizure threshold so it's not appropriate for everyone, and can lead to suicidal impulses. It's a great drug, but has some issues people should be aware of before going in. (Not that everything doesn't have issues- we're here discussing cagri, reta has the potential for raised heart rate, etc.)
Click to expand...
Bupropion I thought was great for a few years till I realized it made me not care enough to change my addictive behavior and was lacking impulse control, among other issues. I wasn’t suicidal until after I tired to wean off, and that lasted at least 6months.

I don’t think anyone should be on it UNLESS there are bio markers indicating their norepinephrine and dopamine levels are insufficient. And you know psychiatry doesn’t use those before offering a script.
 
nccane said:
Having taken cagri and probably shouldnt have. I would do the following first, personally. Some the below do not follow recommended guidelines by EL, but I'd probably explore them before resulting to cag.

1. Higher dose of my main glp
2. Switch to a 5 day schedule
3. Explore doses above the current recommendation (tirz studies at 20/25 happening)
4. Stack with Sema
5. Explore a stack with other glp1s
6. Explore other peptides/options.
Click to expand...
i think this is probably exactly right
 
Sunflower said:
Bupropion I thought was great for a few years till I realized it made me not care enough to change my addictive behavior and was lacking impulse control, among other issues. I wasn’t suicidal until after I tired to wean off, and that lasted at least 6months.

I don’t think anyone should be on it UNLESS there are bio markers indicating their norepinephrine and dopamine levels are insufficient. And you know psychiatry doesn’t use those before offering a script.
Click to expand...
i understand contrave has some risks, and should be taken under a physician's care and with labs, yes. just to be clear, i'm not suggesting that ANYONE self-treat with contrave or buy it on the grey market. but it is a medication that is used for weight management.
 
kayh9 said:
I’m also curious about this. I’ve got a bunch of Cagri that I’d hate to see go unused. I saw some 0.6% acetic acid solution vials on a few peptide sites and even on Amazon, but I’m not sure if you reconstitute with that AND bac water or just the acetic acid solution. Or how much acetic acid to add to a vial you’ve already reconstituted with BAC water. Anything specific to how we achieve this pH of 4 would be incredibly helpful, preferably by someone who has done/is currently doing this.
Unfortunately I’ve invested many hours into searching for this info and am no closer to a solid, definite answer lol.
Click to expand...
To get the pH down would be dependent on the pH of your cagri powder, your BAC water, the pH of what you're using to drop it, and the quantity of all three. Unfortunately, it's impossible for us to give you prescriptive guidance here. Ultimately, you need the pH of the final solution to be in range.

There's two things to keep in mind, though:

1) This will not destroy any existing fibrils or oligomers that might have been created pre-lyophilization, depending on how it was formulated. Fibrils tend to clump together, so a filter might catch some that have clumped together enough to be larger than the filter size, but individual fibrils are too small to be caught by a filter.

2) The patent filing shows different buffers used to drop the pH had different impact on the ability to prevent fibrils, even at 4.0. If you don't know what buffering agent was used originally and can't reference it against the patent, or how your acid impacts it, it's even harder to tell what the impact will be.


If I was going to use cagri I would drop the pH to 4.0 and opt for smaller vials so that I am not having it sit around reconstituted for extended periods of time. If you travel with reconstituted peptides at room temp, which seems to be fine for many of them, I would probably not do so with cagri.
 
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clayd said:
i understand contrave has some risks, and should be taken under a physician's care and with labs, yes. just to be clear, i'm not suggesting that ANYONE self-treat with contrave or buy it on the grey market. but it is a medication that is used for weight management.
Click to expand...
It is marketed for weight management, but it is a synthesis of an NDRI “antidepressant” and naltrexone. I hope it doesn’t have any side effects for your wife, but I will add that when my binge eating was at its worst, Naltrexone and Wellbutrin didn’t touch the cravings or habits.

Tirz has done what 15+ meds couldn’t, and I do like the fact that with peptides you are meant to cycle without the serious withdrawals associated with antidepressants. Doctors know very little about how Wellbutrin works and can only go by qualitative data when measuring its effects. My psychiatrist did green light cycling low dose naltrexone, however, which is promising, as it also aids in resensitizing various receptors targeted by the peptides we use.
 
clayd said:
I have zero interest at all in getting into the drama about who's posting what about cagri and the personal attacks etc. Stay out of that here please.

I have seen enough to have some caution about China cag + bac water. Maybe it's solved by a pH adjustment, maybe not. Or maybe it doesn't need to be. I don't know really but let's say I'm ok with erring on the side of caution...

But my thing is lots of folks are trying cagri to offset the hunger of tirz on day 5-7 of the weekly cycle. So the problem is pretty defined: tirz doesn't last a week, we need a 3 day boost.

Let's assume for now that cagri isn't the answer. What is? A little semaglutide on day 5? My thought is maybe a 5-day tirz dosing schedule.

But id take a good 3 days of appetite suppression from anything definitely safe.

If not cagri, what do you think can provide the 3 day boost?
Click to expand...
I think we have to ask ourselves if the juice is worth the squeeze. Maybe a 2-3 day struggle with a bit more hunger is okay and there is no problem to solve.
 
clayd said:
i think this is probably exactly right
Click to expand...
And I forgot to add.

7. Reassess caloric intake and exercise regiment.

For me, who knows which side is right on cagri. There is a lot of what ifs and subjectiveness to it. What I do know for myself, was that at 1mg, there were diminishing returns on curbing my hunger. I was always tired after using at doses .5mg and up, albeit it got better each week. For myself, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. If I had to go back, I'd do the 7 aforementioned things.
 
nccane said:
And I forgot to add.

7. Reassess caloric intake and exercise regiment.

For me, who knows which side is right on cagri. There is a lot of what ifs and subjectiveness to it. What I do know for myself, was that at 1mg, there were diminishing returns on curbing my hunger. I was always tired after using at doses .5mg and up, albeit it got better each week. For myself, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. If I had to go back, I'd do the 7 aforementioned things.
Click to expand...
this is helpful, thanks. so far i only did 4 weeks of 0.25mg and one week of 0.5mg. the fatigue has improved but it does seem like the appetite suppression is waning as well. i have heard the same elsewhere. i wonder if maybe it's just not very effective. like maybe this drug won't actually come to market.
 
Sunflower said:
Bupropion I thought was great for a few years till I realized it made me not care enough to change my addictive behavior and was lacking impulse control, among other issues. I wasn’t suicidal until after I tired to wean off, and that lasted at least 6months.

I don’t think anyone should be on it UNLESS there are bio markers indicating their norepinephrine and dopamine levels are insufficient. And you know psychiatry doesn’t use those before offering a script.
Click to expand...
agreed. Bupropion made me suicidal. It was incredibly scary. Contrave also didn't work for me at all so I was suicidal and still fat and it was basically the worst of both worlds. I would never recommend it lightly with GLP1s available now.
 
mopo89 said:
agreed. Bupropion made me suicidal. It was incredibly scary. Contrave also didn't work for me at all so I was suicidal and still fat and it was basically the worst of both worlds. I would never recommend it lightly with GLP1s available now.
Click to expand...
Bupropion is great when it works, but when it doesn't it's very, very scary.

I was put on it years ago and nearly ended up hospitalized; I take it again now in conjunction with a mood stabilizer. It can be used for a few things- ADHD, depression, weight loss, smoking cessation. But it's a rough one to play with once it's time to come off.
 
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chmuse said:
Bupropion is great when it works, but when it doesn't it's very, very scary.

I was out on it years ago and nearly ended up hospitalized; I take it again now in conjunction with a mood stabilizer. It can be used for a few things- ADHD, depression, weight loss, smoking cessation. But it's a rough one to play with once it's time to come off.
Click to expand...
i clearly hit on a touchy topic. i'm very sorry for people's bad experience on contrave or wellbutrin. i only meant to suggest that there are non-glp1 weight loss meds available that might be useful as a stack. but i agree that contrave/wellbutrin is not to be trifled with, and i'm very sorry for the way it affected some of you.
 
clayd said:
i clearly hit on a touchy topic. i'm very sorry for people's bad experience on contrave or wellbutrin. i only meant to suggest that there are non-glp1 weight loss meds available that might be useful as a stack. but i agree that contrave/wellbutrin is not to be trifled with, and i'm very sorry for the way it affected some of you.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I didn't mean to derail; it's just not something to go on casually. You need a dr to supervise a taper coming off, whereas a glp-1 you can stop cold turkey. We're all here, so I doubt anyone who needs this information would see it on this forum anyway.
 
chmuse said:
Sorry, I didn't mean to derail; it's just not something to go on casually. You need a dr to supervise a taper coming off, whereas a glp-1 you can stop cold turkey. We're all here, so I doubt anyone who needs this information would see it on this forum anyway.
Click to expand...
no worries at all, i'm glad people shared their experience here so that anyone running across this thread can be informed.
 
clayd said:
I have zero interest at all in getting into the drama about who's posting what about cagri and the personal attacks etc. Stay out of that here please.

I have seen enough to have some caution about China cag + bac water. Maybe it's solved by a pH adjustment, maybe not. Or maybe it doesn't need to be. I don't know really but let's say I'm ok with erring on the side of caution...

But my thing is lots of folks are trying cagri to offset the hunger of tirz on day 5-7 of the weekly cycle. So the problem is pretty defined: tirz doesn't last a week, we need a 3 day boost.

Let's assume for now that cagri isn't the answer. What is? A little semaglutide on day 5? My thought is maybe a 5-day tirz dosing schedule.

But id take a good 3 days of appetite suppression from anything definitely safe.

If not cagri, what do you think can provide the 3 day boost?
Click to expand...
Take it twice per week.
 
ThePepPlanner said:
Still love it! I'm on maintenance with it though. But dosing every 2 weeks because the suppression lasts for some time.
Click to expand...
You had me convinced to try some survo but man it's expensive. 10mg kit for $320 maybe I'll keep tirzing and cagrisema
 
Sunflower said:
Bupropion I thought was great for a few years till I realized it made me not care enough to change my addictive behavior and was lacking impulse control, among other issues. I wasn’t suicidal until after I tired to wean off, and that lasted at least 6months.

I don’t think anyone should be on it UNLESS there are bio markers indicating their norepinephrine and dopamine levels are insufficient. And you know psychiatry doesn’t use those before offering a script.
Click to expand...
One could say the same for GLP-1 medicines; that you shouldn't take them unless you have proof that you have biochemical balance indicating that you need them. The fact that you have depression that isn't responding to therapy or you're too fat and can't lose the weight otherwise are insufficient to justify taking medication. You're talking about testing in a way that wasn't done for clinical trials that proved the efficacy of the medicine. I have an allergy to Penicillin. My anecdotal story of what happened to me is a poor reason for others to avoid the same antibiotic. There are folks who take tirzepatide to the maximum dose and don't lose any weight. Most medicines, when taken as recommended by the manufacturer, may turn out to be a poor fit for an individual patient.
 
keangkong said:
One could say the same for GLP-1 medicines; that you shouldn't take them unless you have proof that you have biochemical balance indicating that you need them. The fact that you have depression that isn't responding to therapy or you're too fat and can't lose the weight otherwise are insufficient to justify taking medication. You're talking about testing in a way that wasn't done for clinical trials that proved the efficacy of the medicine. I have an allergy to Penicillin. My anecdotal story of what happened to me is a poor reason for others to avoid the same antibiotic. There are folks who take tirzepatide to the maximum dose and don't lose any weight. Most medicines, when taken as recommended by the manufacturer, may turn out to be a poor fit for an individual patient.
Click to expand...
The difference is, penicillin and GLP-1s have much higher efficacy for the condition they’re intended to treat than most antidepressants. Also, no one is putting young kids on GLP1s while their brains are still in an extra sensitive stage of development like they are with psychotropics.

When people experience negative effects from GLP1s, the docs usually reduce their dosage or remove them ASAP. Yet with Wellbutrin and similar psychotropics, docs tend to increase the dose, even when it’s clear the drug isn’t “helping.” Weaning off a GLP1 isn’t associated with negative effects like suicidal ideation. Same with penicillin.
 
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