Legal chat: Are we co-conspirators?

[GtownBrown]

I was just on discord talking about the implosion of the CZGB. The organizer says she’s receiving threats, so she shut the whole thing down and refuses to talk to anyone “upon advice of counsel.” I feared this would happen when people started getting angry about how slow she was to communicate and ship. Then the “no peptide” vials hit and calls to “report her” became more frequent.

I am of the mind that we at the very bottom of the supply chain are complicit in the crime of smuggling illegal goods because we commissioned it with our cash and our orders. Others say we are blameless because it’s not illegal to use or possess peptides. I think it’s about intent, in a legal sense. I am of the view that we should support the organizer, no matter her personal failings, because she is only doing (however badly) what we asked her to do. We didn’t want the risk, so we paid her to take it for us, for a fee. Is that not conspiracy?

 

[stickfigure]

Sorry, not familiar with that GB, but has it been importing controlled substances like HGH? If not, I don't think there are many reasons to worry. No one goes after end users of unlawfully imported legend drugs. Of course unless the end users name is something like Rush Limbaugh

 

[DevynL90]

idk what you're asking here but that jessica person is a giant scam artist and i root for her to be thrown into a panama gulag every single day i wake up. just an absolute scum bag of a person. preying on the least savvy people (facebook group people) to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars in scammed money.

 

[GtownBrown]

Sorry, not familiar with that GB, but has it been importing controlled substances like HGH? If not, I don't think there are many reasons to worry. No one goes after end users of unlawfully imported legend drugs. Of course unless the end users name is something like Rush Limbaugh

I’m not worried. I know police wouldn’t bother with the end user. I’m just wondering about the legal technicality.

 

[GtownBrown]

idk what you're asking here but that jessica person is a giant scam artist and i root for her to be thrown into a panama gulag every single day i wake up. just an absolute scum bag of a person. preying on the least savvy people (facebook group people) to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars in scammed money.

I see that you don’t know what I’m asking here.

 

[YoYoFat]

I am of the mind that we at the very bottom of the supply chain are complicit in the crime of smuggling illegal goods because we commissioned it with our cash and our orders.

Nope. It is not illegal to sell, buy, or use research peptides.

What's illegal is selling research peptides as if they are FDA-approved prescription medication intended for human use, like the Florida med spa lady who was selling pre-filled syringes of "medication" for pick up under her front doormat.

Apples and hand grenades. Making the former out to be the latter is moronic.

 

[stickfigure]

It all comes down to intent. Is the intent to use the imported drugs for humans? If so, it's illegal.
Intent has to be proven, but for something like tirz no one is going to bother with end users.

 

[Vicki]

Sorry, not familiar with that GB, but has it been importing controlled substances like HGH? If not, I don't think there are many reasons to worry. No one goes after end users of unlawfully imported legend drugs. Of course unless the end users name is something like Rush Limbaugh

They consider glp1s to be legend drugs apparently and it's also illegal. Just because it's not a controlled substance doesn't mean people aren't breaking the law. As long as the intent for human use is there it's illegal. You can call it research all day but just reading a little bit and you can see nobody is actually doing research

This is why I'm so against people getting pissy and reporting discords, people, etc. It just shines a big light on everyone here.


Sorry I didn't answer the question.

Technically, yes we are co-conspirators Do they care enough to look into it further? I guess it might depend who you are.

 

[GtownBrown]

This is why I'm so against people getting pissy and reporting discords, people, etc. It just shines a big light on everyone here.

Totally agree

 

[YoYoFat]

It all comes down to intent. Is the intent to use the imported drugs for humans? If so, it's illegal.
Intent has to be proven, but for something like tirz no one is going to bother with end users.

Cite the section of the USC, please.

 

[stickfigure]

Title 21 of the U.S. Code (Food and Drugs). In particular, the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act) makes it a prohibited act to introduce (including import) any non‑FDA‑approved (unapproved) drug into interstate commerce with the intent for human use. Two key sections are usually cited together:

1. 21 U.S.C. § 355 (New Drugs) – This section establishes that any “new drug” (i.e., not generally recognized as safe and effective, or not approved by FDA) may not be introduced into interstate commerce without an approved application.
2. 21 U.S.C. § 331(d) (Prohibited Acts) – Prohibits the introduction or delivery for introduction into interstate commerce of an unapproved new drug in violation of § 355.

When these sections are read together, they make it unlawful to import (or otherwise introduce) unapproved drugs for human use into the United States without prior FDA approval.

 

[GtownBrown]

Cite the section of the USC, please.

It’s not the code but it’s a simple enough concept

 

[brentm]

I like how none of the self-disclosed attorneys have not responded to this thread.

 

[Vicki]

It’s not the code but it’s a simple enough concept

Also we should keep in mind that all the discussion of human use is enough to imply intent. Even if we say "research subject"

 

[YoYoFat]

I like how none of the self-disclosed attorneys have not responded to this thread.

I have.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

it's like tearing that tag off your mattress. some people actually worry about these things.

 

[YoYoFat]

It’s not the code but it’s a simple enough concept

I’m an attorney. You’re wrong. There is no section of the code that makes buying, selling, or engaging in research of research peptides unlawful.

Conspiracy requires an overt act in furtherance of a crime. If there is no underlying crime, no conspiracy.

Full stop. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

You’re also all over Discord describing research peptides as “counterfeit medication.” You’re just flat wrong.

 

[YoYoFat]

Also we should keep in mind that all the discussion of human use is enough to imply intent. Even if we say "research subject"

Hahaha no.

 

[YoYoFat]

Title 21 of the U.S. Code (Food and Drugs). In particular, the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act) makes it a prohibited act to introduce (including import) any non‑FDA‑approved (unapproved) drug into interstate commerce with the intent for human use. Two key sections are usually cited together:

1. 21 U.S.C. § 355 (New Drugs) – This section establishes that any “new drug” (i.e., not generally recognized as safe and effective, or not approved by FDA) may not be introduced into interstate commerce without an approved application.
2. 21 U.S.C. § 331(d) (Prohibited Acts) – Prohibits the introduction or delivery for introduction into interstate commerce of an unapproved new drug in violation of § 355.

When these sections are read together, they make it unlawful to import (or otherwise introduce) unapproved drugs for human use into the United States without prior FDA approval.

These code sections do not apply to research peptides, vitamins, or supplements. Peptides themselves — what research peptides are — also aren’t drugs, medications, or pharmaceuticals.

Common sense should make this clear to you, given the abundance of domestic single vial sellers of the very same products that have been around for a long long time without so much as a whiff of concern from law enforcement.

EL and NN engaging in scare tactics to get compounders and research retailers to stop is an entirely different, patent- and market share-based issue.

 

[chmuse]

These code sections do not apply to peptides, vitamins, or supplements. Peptides are not regulated by the FDA. Peptides also aren’t drugs.

Will that change if EL or NN manages to get them classified as biologics? (I remember seeing somewhere that they're trying but probably won't succeed. Just being curious.)