Well, I doubt the effect has any real purpose unless natural production is already heavily suppressed? That’s why ai’m asking, Iv’e never really seen/discussed at other use than PCT
Peptides vs Testosterone vs ?
- Thread starter dionysos
- Start date
there has been some research done and some "clinics" offer it as an alternative to testosterone, but same as you mentioned I always used HCG mostly for PCT and low dose during a cycle. I can't find any study now that shows risks of long term, high dose, frequent dosing, but im sure its not the best way to use it (I just recall from my memories to read somewhere a long time ago from many sources that it should not be used stand alone).
I am also on 10mg, 2 months on, 1 month off - just to give a break to receptors, liver, and to restore some minor testosterone suppression, if any
mostlydamp
Member
I have gotten really into muscle building and am loving the changes in myself over the last few months. I haven't started yet, but I am planning to do TRT in the near future. I'm going with a clinic because I'm a noob with regard to testosterone, but also because I have a license to protect and even domestic shipping testosterone was too scary for me. There's so much to learn about testosterone and how all of the hormone management part of things works. It could be that I'm trying too hard to understand the big picture of it from the Registered Nurse perspective before starting, while a lot of people just jump in with test and a PCT.
As far as ostarine, can anyone tell me if a little ostarine thrown into the mix after a few months is a good idea with a TRT base? Once I see how I do with TRT alone first of course.
As far as ostarine, can anyone tell me if a little ostarine thrown into the mix after a few months is a good idea with a TRT base? Once I see how I do with TRT alone first of course.
If it’s a good idea depends on the intention.
But yes, it would be one of the safest ways to get an additional boost to muscle growth in addition to the trt.
Personally I would opt for Anavar, even though it arguably has higher side effects and toxicity. But in a healthy individual a small dosage would not be very harmful - but if you are sensitive to suppression of natural testosterone you might want to increase the trt dosage in that case.
The reason I’d go for that option is the additional fat burning properties, and it hardens muscle in a different way compared to ostarine.
That said, nothing wrong with your current plan, and it will give additional effect with very low risk of complications
But yes, it would be one of the safest ways to get an additional boost to muscle growth in addition to the trt.
Personally I would opt for Anavar, even though it arguably has higher side effects and toxicity. But in a healthy individual a small dosage would not be very harmful - but if you are sensitive to suppression of natural testosterone you might want to increase the trt dosage in that case.
The reason I’d go for that option is the additional fat burning properties, and it hardens muscle in a different way compared to ostarine.
That said, nothing wrong with your current plan, and it will give additional effect with very low risk of complications
mostlydamp
Member
Thanks! I'll probably see where things settle between labs and the trt in a few months, then maybe go for a boost with one of those options.
sweatyhands
New_Member
If you decide to go on TRT, be prepared it might be for life.
Even after you stop it with correct pct there's a chance your natural production will be lower than before you started. (you'll feel miserable)
Not to mention it can speed up balding, might need to take aromatase inhibitor to control estrogen, and regular use of hcg to prevent testicular atrophy. Regular blood donations are highly advised too.
I would wait until you have below normal range test production.
just my 2cents.
take care
Yes, with aromatase inhibitors (low dose, best based on blood tests) and with regular blood tests to look for polycythemia too, but with a low dose T (TRT dose) majority of people will have no issue at all.
In the meantime, you can always try a low dose Ostarine (10mg max daily) for 6 weeks and take a break for 1 month - I did that recently with no signs of suppression or any other issues (but I did not confirm it with blood tests) so right now I extended the cycle to 2 months on, 1 month off...
With Anavar (Oxandrolone) its better to go on TRT first in my opinion, its not suppressing as much, but still I see Oxa as something to be better taken with T. As @Bacchus mentioned, its better with fat burning, especially abdominal obesity, while Ostarine is more protective against muscle mass loss during weight loss.
Tbh, with a trt dosage, most people would bounce back to normal production quite quickly without any pct at all (not that it's recommended not to do pct).
But as far as I am concerned, the worries about side effects from low doses of testosterone is blow out of proportion - usually by people with 0 practical experience.
mostlydamp
Member
Thanks for the concern. Already 100% bald naturally baby! My trt place can provide aromatase inhibitors so no big deal. Or I'll just get them one way or another. As noted above it's pretty unlikely with a low dose of test to get all of these things, and unlikely that I would crash my test forever and feel horrible. There are a lot of signs that my testosterone may be low anyway, so that's part of the motivation.
I'm in my 40s, went bald at 25, will never have children, and have a career that means I would always be able to afford it even if it was for life. I actually need a motivator for donating blood so that is nice too. And I assure you my wife gives zero fucks about my testicle size. I actually don't see any downsides other than the vague health risks and scare mongering.
I mean really, I'm on a forum full of people promoting research peptides from China, you'd think that taking testosterone from a clinic under physician supervision would be the least scary thing on here lol! If you disagree with that it's time to take a step back and reassess risk.
Well, it does seem to be a common consensus that peptides from unverified sources are harmless and has a blanket stamp of safety approval.
But steroids will put you in an early grave.
I am phrasing this in an annoying way on purpose, because it seems to be a common assumption that peptides are generally safe and harmless… insulin is a peptide, not very safe to play around with
as an exampleImSW1
New_Member
I would expect that most of the warnings are geared towards newbies that don't know anything about TRT or other PEDs. No doom or gloom, but do your research.
Let's face it, most people on the GLP-1 journey would be better just adding resistance training to their regime before ever taking up test or SARMS, unless your levels are truly testing low.
I'll say it again, take what you want. Everything comes with risk, but educate yourself on what you're taking. I haven't seen anyone advocating recurring labs for tirz/sema etc., but you definitely should get them done if you are using PEDs. You don't need a PCT protocol to get off tirz/sema. There's factors to take into consideration before starting a PED cycle.
Yes, going to a clinic and getting TRT is infinitely safer, but is that what we're really talking about here?
Let's face it, most people on the GLP-1 journey would be better just adding resistance training to their regime before ever taking up test or SARMS, unless your levels are truly testing low.
I'll say it again, take what you want. Everything comes with risk, but educate yourself on what you're taking. I haven't seen anyone advocating recurring labs for tirz/sema etc., but you definitely should get them done if you are using PEDs. You don't need a PCT protocol to get off tirz/sema. There's factors to take into consideration before starting a PED cycle.
Yes, going to a clinic and getting TRT is infinitely safer, but is that what we're really talking about here?
mostlydamp
Member
I appreciate the non-judgmental approach because you're right about everything here. And even if I already know it I think it needs to be said for others that read this. In my case yes, I am going to a clinic and will receive TRT legally. Its not code. If I was buying steroids online that would be different both with regard to dosage and impact on health. I do have other reasons than muscle building but nobody wants to hear about my limp dick.
There ARE risks to testosterone supplementation so that is a real thing including cardiovascular risks. Testosterone is also studied way way more intensively than these peptides so PCT is a way that was learned over time to deal with that fallout. Peptides are pretty new.I think with regard to labs and dangers around peptides, glp-1s are probably well studied and really safe, but in about 5 to 10 years maybe longer we are going to find out some of these others are not so good and have fallout of their own and should have had a balance with meds or PCT. Maybe they don't mess up you hormones but they may dramatically increase cancer risk or be filling you with microplastics. My point isn't to argue against anything anyone has said so much as to say at least testosterone isn't totally experimental and we know the long term effects. If you go to a clinic, trt is cheap. That seems so much safer to me than taking, say, epitalon which...maybe you'll extend you life with, maybe you'll get horrible cancer who knows! Spin the wheel!
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
i have 0 confidence that medical professionals know any more about this stuff than we do. And all these popup "health spas" are more interested in just selling you something than doing the right thing for you. How much can they tell in a 5 minute talk? For that matter how much does my real doc know about me in a 5 minute talk.
The whole medical industry is crap.
I'm thinking about just ordering every fucking thing on the SRY list and going at it. Probably be less than 1000 bucks total.
The whole medical industry is crap.
I'm thinking about just ordering every fucking thing on the SRY list and going at it. Probably be less than 1000 bucks total.
mostlydamp
Member
That's the spirit!
[Cut to scene of Raw being rushed to where? To the Emergency Deaprtment of course.]
I want to bookmark that comment for ya in your brain so you can refer back to it later.
GustyWinds
New_Member
I’m taking 225g of protein through shakes daily, and creatine.
Doing as many push ups as I can. I’m also fairly active with farm work.
Not sure how well it’s working, but it seems I’m building muscle as I’m losing.
Doing as many push ups as I can. I’m also fairly active with farm work.
Not sure how well it’s working, but it seems I’m building muscle as I’m losing.
Can't wait for this Netflix documentary on why peptides are bad, feat Oyster's insane research approaches being quoted everywhere.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
well at this point it's all talk. I haven't done anything over and above, except tesamorelin.
T,R,C and tesa.
Oh, and the fat dissolvers, Lemon Bottle, Lipo Lab, Neobella.
I really should care more what people think about me. I've been trying...
I have more stuff on the way but fedex is holding it in CA for a weather exception. Never seen that before.
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dionysos
Senior Member
It’s a fair approach, but the default medical disclaimer for both peptides, steroids and most other stuff is a bit over the top.
So repeating that as a first response, is not very nuanced, nor good practical advice.
Saying you shouldn’t consider trt because it might be permanent. Is leading with the extremes, which is unfortunate in my opinion, others that have the same viewpoint will agree with you. A teenager or kid in his early 20s will be more likely to think you’re full of shit and ignore the advice, exactly because you are leading with the extremes, and statistically speaking - it’s fear-mongering.
I’d compare it to me telling you not to take paracetamol because you might get an ulcer. While it’s true, it’s not really a very likely scenario, and you would chose to kill the headache without fearing an ulcer.
By all means, if you don’t need medication - you shouldn’t take it, we completely agree. But in reality, we make a lot of bad choices for various reasons, so practice is different from theory here. I very much agree with you that you should go into it fully informed.
But fully informed also means to include upsides and positives, weighing potential risk vs reward.
I had an interesting argument with ChatGPT yesterday, I wanted it to scan some studies and do some research for me. But it kept refusing to generate a response. And in the end more or less confirmed that it was censoring factual medical information because it was against it’s ethical guidelines to supply the information??
I would hope that anyone considering steroids actually do go to a specialist (not a GP), and get regular blood work done. I downplay a lot of the side effects because I feel that people are generally overly cautious, but if you are unlucky it could get real bad - so better safe than sorry, safe use over gambling any day of the week.
I think the argument @mostlydamp was making wasn’t specifically about trt being safe. But that the risk assessment people do when ordering peptides (Chinese or research), might be a bit lacking.
There are quite a few risk factors being blatantly ignored. And the market over in China isn’t as straight forward as it might seem.
That said, the issue with quality in steroid raws is bigger than with peptides since they are more actively doing something about it.
There is a lot of bunk and bad product going out from china. It’s not a nice and clean market. So you are taking some risk when ordering, though it is likely to be perfectly safe.
