Peptides vs Testosterone vs ?

[dionysos]

How are YOU coping with muscle loss? ​

Have you effectively countered it all along and don't need to worry?​

Is there a peptide, hormone, secretagogue or SARMS protocol that's effective for you? ​

Many forum members have progressed in their weight loss journey to Maintenance or near it.
I'm currently within about 8 pounds of Goal Weight and along with the undoubted Joy of a new wardrobe I also experience the less pleasant reality of Muscle Loss. I KNOW there are others here with similar or better results than my own...

Come Out, Come Out and Talk To Us!​

How are YOU coping with muscle loss?
Have you effectively countered it all along and don't need an assist?
Is there a peptide, hormone, secretagogue or SARM that you use effectively?

Inquiring Minds Want to Know

-----
Despite being a deceptive and biased marketing tool to cleverly steer researchers to vendors who pay for each click, Petides.org occasionally produces useful content. Below is a relevant, accessible article on Peptides vs Hormones for those new to the subject:

Peptides vs. Testosterone | What's the Difference?

This thorough review provides an evidence-based comparison of peptides and testosterone replacement therapy, highlighting their benefits, risks, and other relevant factors.

www.peptides.org

 

[ImSW1]

So my experience is, I have countered it by going to the gym on a regular basis and picking up and putting down heavy circles 😀.

My thoughts on Testosterone, SARMs etc., is that there's a significant downside to supplementation if your test levels aren't already low. It's normally a lifetime decision to supplement because supplementation crashes your natural test levels if they're normal. SARMs have their own negatives from boosting blood glucose levels to crashing your test levels.

My advice, take it with a grain of salt, if you have low testosterone, go and do TRT etc. If your levels are normal, go to the gym if you are capable of the physical work. If you can't go to the gym for whatever reason, enjoy your weight loss 👍.

Supplementation isn't a magic shot, you'll still need to do something to rebuild the muscle you've lost. Whatever your decision, congrats on your successful journey!

 

[mopo89]

I've never considered taking anything like that because I'm a woman, but previously when I lost weight, as well as starting on this journey, I have also just made sure to incorporate a strength program.

I'm fairly positive I'm not losing muscle this time around (although I'm only about 13lbs down) because I am doing a hypertrophy program and have so far been able to increase my weights by 1.25lbs-2.5lbs per week (although I know that will stop at a certain point at which point I will maintain whatever weight I'm lifting!). While I will have a couple deload weeks between programs, I intend to keep this up through my weight loss and beyond.

 

[Bacchus]

So my experience is, I have countered it by going to the gym on a regular basis and picking up and putting down heavy circles 😀.

My thoughts on Testosterone, SARMs etc., is that there's a significant downside to supplementation if your test levels aren't already low. It's normally a lifetime decision to supplement because supplementation crashes your natural test levels if they're normal. SARMs have their own negatives from boosting blood glucose levels to crashing your test levels.

My advice, take it with a grain of salt, if you have low testosterone, go and do TRT etc. If your levels are normal, go to the gym if you are capable of the physical work. If you can't go to the gym for whatever reason, enjoy your weight loss 👍.

Supplementation isn't a magic shot, you'll still need to do something to rebuild the muscle you've lost. Whatever your decision, congrats on your successful journey!

The crashing of T production is more nuanced than that. First off, it's not like it's magically suppressed to 0 the moment you snort some sarms - It's very dosage/compound dependent.

And it is (usually) not permanent, very rarely so actually if you follow a proper PCT protocol.

I'm not saying there are no risks, but this is among the smaller risks. Testosterone has also been tested as a male contraception, though discontinued because of the large doses necessary and the "hit and miss" effect. So just based off that, you can guess that it's not a death sentence to take some.

That said, if you have normal T levels, and no burning desire to build bigger muscle and lift heavy stuff - it probably isn't for you - Though it could in many cases be a very good aid for weight loss while maintaining and building muscle mass, but more so for those that has already lost significant weight, or whose starting isn't too high bodyfat% wise. Since side effects tend to increase with obesity

 

[ImSW1]

The crashing of T production is more nuanced than that. First off, it's not like it's magically suppressed to 0 the moment you snort some sarms - It's very dosage/compound dependent.

And it is (usually) not permanent, very rarely so actually if you follow a proper PCT protocol.

I'm not saying there are no risks, but this is among the smaller risks. Testosterone has also been tested as a male contraception, though discontinued because of the large doses necessary and the "hit and miss" effect. So just based off that, you can guess that it's not a death sentence to take some.

That said, if you have normal T levels, and no burning desire to build bigger muscle and lift heavy stuff - it probably isn't for you - Though it could in many cases be a very good aid for weight loss while maintaining and building muscle mass, but more so for those that has already lost significant weight, or whose starting isn't too high bodyfat% wise. Since side effects tend to increase with obesity

I'll agree with everything you've said. Understandably, nothing will crash your test to zero, but it will significantly affect your natural test levels and for a long time without a correct protocol to restart your natural test.

My advice is based primarily on the basis that we humans are lazy 😂. Jumping in without understanding that you need a PCT protocol to come off test and some SARMs, and that you should be getting labs done regularly can be significantly detrimental to your health. It's just not the same to tritating up on tirz/sema etc.

Then there's the fact that you still have to put in the work to build the muscle on TRT, most people would be better off just adding some resistance training to their program.

EDIT: I'm also not saying don't do TRT or SARMs. Do what you want, but go into it with your eyes open and educated.

 

[ImSW1]

I've never considered taking anything like that because I'm a woman, but previously when I lost weight, as well as starting on this journey, I have also just made sure to incorporate a strength program.

I'm fairly positive I'm not losing muscle this time around (although I'm only about 13lbs down) because I am doing a hypertrophy program and have so far been able to increase my weights by 1.25lbs-2.5lbs per week (although I know that will stop at a certain point at which point I will maintain whatever weight I'm lifting!). While I will have a couple deload weeks between programs, I intend to keep this up through my weight loss and beyond.

That's awesome 👍. Focus on your body changes rather than the scale. I bet you'll see belt, waist, and body size changes before significant drops on the scale.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

I'm not even that concerned about muscle loss. I want to be able to do a substantial calorie deficit and still feel good. I'm finding T, R and C don't alleviate the hunger continually when i'm fasting. There are definitely ups and downs with severe hunger.

I'm taking the tesamorelin and am not convinced it's very effective. I need to give it more time i guess. Taking HGH would probably be the next level as it puts the hormone directly in your body skipping the pit gland. But, I want to try HCG first as there is some established 500 calorie diet it works well with and it's easier on the body.

this is how i see the progression.
T
R
C
R&C
R&C&TESA
R&C&HCG
R&C&HCG&HGH

Then figure out later if i really have the nerve to mess around with test and steroids. Somebody let me know if I'm out of my mind. Oh wait, y'all already have.

 

[dionysos]

I'm not even that concerned about muscle loss. I want to be able to do a substantial calorie deficit and still feel good. I'm finding T, R and C don't alleviate the hunger continually when i'm fasting. There are definitely ups and downs with severe hunger.

I'm taking the tesamorelin and am not convinced it's very effective. I need to give it more time i guess. Taking HGH would probably be the next level as it puts the hormone directly in your body skipping the pit gland. But, I want to try HCG first as there is some established 500 calorie diet it works well with and it's easier on the body.

this is how i see the progression.
T
R
C
R&C
R&C&TESA
R&C&HCG
R&C&HCG&HGH

Then figure out later if i really have the nerve to mess around with test and steroids. Somebody let me know if I'm out of my mind. Oh wait, y'all already have.

It is mos def too late for YOU, Raw. /s

 

[Derby]

Squats, bench & deadlifts, baby!

 

[Bacchus]

I'm not even that concerned about muscle loss. I want to be able to do a substantial calorie deficit and still feel good. I'm finding T, R and C don't alleviate the hunger continually when i'm fasting. There are definitely ups and downs with severe hunger.

I'm taking the tesamorelin and am not convinced it's very effective. I need to give it more time i guess. Taking HGH would probably be the next level as it puts the hormone directly in your body skipping the pit gland. But, I want to try HCG first as there is some established 500 calorie diet it works well with and it's easier on the body.

this is how i see the progression.
T
R
C
R&C
R&C&TESA
R&C&HCG
R&C&HCG&HGH

Then figure out later if i really have the nerve to mess around with test and steroids. Somebody let me know if I'm out of my mind. Oh wait, y'all already have.

I don’t really understand the purpose of the hcg. Can you elaborate what you take it for?

 

[ImSW1]

HCG drives your bodies natural release of test. It also helps with the functioning of the parts down below.

It's a big part of a PCT protocol usually, but you can use it as part of TRT.

 

[milos]

How are YOU coping with muscle loss? ​

Have you effectively countered it all along and don't need to worry?​

Is there a peptide, hormone, secretagogue or SARMS protocol that's effective for you? ​

Many forum members have progressed in their weight loss journey to Maintenance or near it.
I'm currently within about 8 pounds of Goal Weight and along with the undoubted Joy of a new wardrobe I also experience the less pleasant reality of Muscle Loss. I KNOW there are others here with similar or better results than my own...

Come Out, Come Out and Talk To Us!​

How are YOU coping with muscle loss?
Have you effectively countered it all along and don't need an assist?
Is there a peptide, hormone, secretagogue or SARM that you use effectively?

Inquiring Minds Want to Know

-----
Despite being a deceptive and biased marketing tool to cleverly steer researchers to vendors who pay for each click, Petides.org occasionally produces useful content. Below is a relevant, accessible article on Peptides vs Hormones for those new to the subject:

Peptides vs. Testosterone | What's the Difference?

This thorough review provides an evidence-based comparison of peptides and testosterone replacement therapy, highlighting their benefits, risks, and other relevant factors.

www.peptides.org

I miss there choice SARMs
EDIT: specifically Ostarine is under research to be used with Sema to maintain muscle mass

 

[milos]

I don’t really understand the purpose of the hcg. Can you elaborate what you take it for?

Some people take it long term to boost natural testosterone, which is not very smart, is it?
HCG should be taken during TRT (in low dose once per week) to maintain testicular function, or at least only during PCT, not as a stand-alone.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

Some people take it long term to boost natural testosterone, which is not very smart, is it?
HCG should be taken during TRT (in low dose once per week) to maintain testicular function, or at least only during PCT, not as a stand-alone.

wait a minute. Google HCG diet or HCG weight loss. It's a stand-alone thing. A big thing.

 

[milos]

wait a minute. Google HCG diet or HCG weight loss. It's a stand-alone thing. A big thing.

I know about it, but that someone discuss it on reddit doesn't mean its a good thing
HCG is best to use during TRT together with testosterone but in low dose only and once per week, or you can get desensitization and dependence + other issues
EDIT: 2x weekly dosing is also still OK and common, but not everyday use

HCG diet: Is it safe and effective?

Learn about the risks of this dangerous diet.

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[ImSW1]

wait a minute. Google HCG diet or HCG weight loss. It's a stand-alone thing. A big thing.

I googled it, I'm out. 500 calories! It's not the HCG that making you lose weight at that type of calorie deficit.

You got this without that process. Keep on the tirz/reta/carg wagon. Maybe a little HGH if you want, but make sure you're getting your labs done regularly.

 

[ImSW1]

Squats, bench & deadlifts, baby!

For some, push-ups, lunges and a brisk walk will do the job, but I like the way you think 😉.

 

[dionysos]

For some, push-ups, lunges and a brisk walk will do the job, but I like the way you think 😉.

...and Smith Machine squats specifically for my missing glutes!

 

[ImSW1]

...and Smith Machine squats specifically for my missing glutes!

I saw your picture in your other thread. You aren't fooling anyone 👍.

Great work brotha. Your journey has been a resounding success!

 

[G Vice]

I miss there choice SARMs
EDIT: specifically Ostarine is under research to be used with Sema to maintain muscle mass

Quoting milos to the OP.......I take Ostarine10-20 mg per day, plus I do mod-max difficulty resistance training 4 days per week. Ostarine is a mild SARM, unlike RAD-140, and you don't need to do PCT when taking Ostarine. It's not something you "cycle", although I do consider giving my receptors a break now and then, just because.

 

[Bacchus]

HCG drives your bodies natural release of test. It also helps with the functioning of the parts down below.

It's a big part of a PCT protocol usually, but you can use it as part of TRT.

Well, I doubt the effect has any real purpose unless natural production is already heavily suppressed? That’s why ai’m asking, Iv’e never really seen/discussed at other use than PCT

 

[milos]

Well, I doubt the effect has any real purpose unless natural production is already heavily suppressed? That’s why ai’m asking, Iv’e never really seen/discussed at other use than PCT

there has been some research done and some "clinics" offer it as an alternative to testosterone, but same as you mentioned I always used HCG mostly for PCT and low dose during a cycle. I can't find any study now that shows risks of long term, high dose, frequent dosing, but im sure its not the best way to use it (I just recall from my memories to read somewhere a long time ago from many sources that it should not be used stand alone).

 

[milos]

Quoting milos to the OP.......I take Ostarine10-20 mg per day, plus I do mod-max difficulty resistance training 4 days per week. Ostarine is a mild SARM, unlike RAD-140, and you don't need to do PCT when taking Ostarine. It's not something you "cycle", although I do consider giving my receptors a break now and then, just because.

I am also on 10mg, 2 months on, 1 month off - just to give a break to receptors, liver, and to restore some minor testosterone suppression, if any

 

[mostlydamp]

I have gotten really into muscle building and am loving the changes in myself over the last few months. I haven't started yet, but I am planning to do TRT in the near future. I'm going with a clinic because I'm a noob with regard to testosterone, but also because I have a license to protect and even domestic shipping testosterone was too scary for me. There's so much to learn about testosterone and how all of the hormone management part of things works. It could be that I'm trying too hard to understand the big picture of it from the Registered Nurse perspective before starting, while a lot of people just jump in with test and a PCT.

As far as ostarine, can anyone tell me if a little ostarine thrown into the mix after a few months is a good idea with a TRT base? Once I see how I do with TRT alone first of course.

 

[Bacchus]

If it’s a good idea depends on the intention.

But yes, it would be one of the safest ways to get an additional boost to muscle growth in addition to the trt.

Personally I would opt for Anavar, even though it arguably has higher side effects and toxicity. But in a healthy individual a small dosage would not be very harmful - but if you are sensitive to suppression of natural testosterone you might want to increase the trt dosage in that case.

The reason I’d go for that option is the additional fat burning properties, and it hardens muscle in a different way compared to ostarine.

That said, nothing wrong with your current plan, and it will give additional effect with very low risk of complications

 

[mostlydamp]

If it’s a good idea depends on the intention.

But yes, it would be one of the safest ways to get an additional boost to muscle growth in addition to the trt.

Personally I would opt for Anavar, even though it arguably has higher side effects and toxicity. But in a healthy individual a small dosage would not be very harmful - but if you are sensitive to suppression of natural testosterone you might want to increase the trt dosage in that case.

The reason I’d go for that option is the additional fat burning properties, and it hardens muscle in a different way compared to ostarine.

That said, nothing wrong with your current plan, and it will give additional effect with very low risk of complications

Thanks! I'll probably see where things settle between labs and the trt in a few months, then maybe go for a boost with one of those options.

 

[sweatyhands]

I have gotten really into muscle building and am loving the changes in myself over the last few months. I haven't started yet, but I am planning to do TRT in the near future. I'm going with a clinic because I'm a noob with regard to testosterone, but also because I have a license to protect and even domestic shipping testosterone was too scary for me. There's so much to learn about testosterone and how all of the hormone management part of things works. It could be that I'm trying too hard to understand the big picture of it from the Registered Nurse perspective before starting, while a lot of people just jump in with test and a PCT.

As far as ostarine, can anyone tell me if a little ostarine thrown into the mix after a few months is a good idea with a TRT base? Once I see how I do with TRT alone first of course.

If you decide to go on TRT, be prepared it might be for life.

Even after you stop it with correct pct there's a chance your natural production will be lower than before you started. (you'll feel miserable)
Not to mention it can speed up balding, might need to take aromatase inhibitor to control estrogen, and regular use of hcg to prevent testicular atrophy. Regular blood donations are highly advised too.

I would wait until you have below normal range test production.

just my 2cents.
take care

 

[milos]

might need to take aromatase inhibitor to control estrogen, and regular use of hcg to prevent testicular atrophy. Regular blood donations are highly advised too.

Yes, with aromatase inhibitors (low dose, best based on blood tests) and with regular blood tests to look for polycythemia too, but with a low dose T (TRT dose) majority of people will have no issue at all.

In the meantime, you can always try a low dose Ostarine (10mg max daily) for 6 weeks and take a break for 1 month - I did that recently with no signs of suppression or any other issues (but I did not confirm it with blood tests) so right now I extended the cycle to 2 months on, 1 month off...

With Anavar (Oxandrolone) its better to go on TRT first in my opinion, its not suppressing as much, but still I see Oxa as something to be better taken with T. As @Bacchus mentioned, its better with fat burning, especially abdominal obesity, while Ostarine is more protective against muscle mass loss during weight loss.

 

[Bacchus]

Yes, with aromatase inhibitors (low dose, best based on blood tests) and with regular blood tests to look for polycythemia too, but with a low dose T (TRT dose) majority of people will have no issue at all.

In the meantime, you can always try a low dose Ostarine (10mg max daily) for 6 weeks and take a break for 1 month - I did that recently with no signs of suppression or any other issues (but I did not confirm it with blood tests) so right now I extended the cycle to 2 months on, 1 month off...

With Anavar (Oxandrolone) its better to go on TRT first in my opinion, its not suppressing as much, but still I see Oxa as something to be better taken with T. As @Bacchus mentioned, its better with fat burning, especially abdominal obesity, while Ostarine is more protective against muscle mass loss during weight loss.

Tbh, with a trt dosage, most people would bounce back to normal production quite quickly without any pct at all (not that it's recommended not to do pct).

But as far as I am concerned, the worries about side effects from low doses of testosterone is blow out of proportion - usually by people with 0 practical experience.

 

[mostlydamp]

If you decide to go on TRT, be prepared it might be for life.

Even after you stop it with correct pct there's a chance your natural production will be lower than before you started. (you'll feel miserable)
Not to mention it can speed up balding, might need to take aromatase inhibitor to control estrogen, and regular use of hcg to prevent testicular atrophy. Regular blood donations are highly advised too.

I would wait until you have below normal range test production.

just my 2cents.
take care

Thanks for the concern. Already 100% bald naturally baby! My trt place can provide aromatase inhibitors so no big deal. Or I'll just get them one way or another. As noted above it's pretty unlikely with a low dose of test to get all of these things, and unlikely that I would crash my test forever and feel horrible. There are a lot of signs that my testosterone may be low anyway, so that's part of the motivation.

I'm in my 40s, went bald at 25, will never have children, and have a career that means I would always be able to afford it even if it was for life. I actually need a motivator for donating blood so that is nice too. And I assure you my wife gives zero fucks about my testicle size. I actually don't see any downsides other than the vague health risks and scare mongering.

I mean really, I'm on a forum full of people promoting research peptides from China, you'd think that taking testosterone from a clinic under physician supervision would be the least scary thing on here lol! If you disagree with that it's time to take a step back and reassess risk.