PETS/PEPS and CANCER

[StonePny]

This is a hard post, but I'm looking for any anecdotal info. Found out yesterday that our beloved Stone, who is the StonePony, has osteosarcoma (bone cancer) at just not quite 5 years old. His front leg, which with a giant dog cannot be amputated.

I have a life time of nursing animals that came to live with me, lizard, birds, rats, a silly little dog that wasnt mine. But this one is rough and the first time with cancer. Would love to stop metastasis and extend his time if he's not in pain.

In deep diving, I'm seeing some info about PNC27 and ID6, also one person online who used TA1. All of which I'm not familiar with personally. Have any of you used used any peptides or other non-chemo treatments for any of your animals, successfully or not successfully?

 

[Morbius]

I'm so sorry to hear about your pup.

On another forum someone reported using BPC-157 on a dog for degenerative disc disease, and said it seemed to help, though in the end was not enough to alter the outcome.

In such a situation I would certainly be open to trying some grey market peps. I hope you find some good leads.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

i've injected several vials of pnc027 and there are no side effects for me. it probably won;t hurt him and I would be very very interested in how it works out.

 

[Calm Logic]

TL;DR: Don't trust your vets for pain management.

So sorry to hear about the bad news. I did have my dog with kidney cancer on a high-calorie prescription food, which may have helped prevent cachexia. But some cheap peanut butter helped too.

I don't know about the peptides, but most vets suck for pain management when the time comes (unless the pain is bad enough for euthenasia), and I found out later there is an entire book on the subject that throws the status quo under the bus. I was banned from two of my local vet offices after telling them to go to hell for being very dismissive in the pain management department (for my newly-adopted senior dog with end-stage kidney cancer).

They would not even try to see if the dog, which had a large mass, would act differently on some real pain meds besides gabapentin. They act like the DEA is outside (even though they can give a shot of tramadol), and maybe he was fine anyway.

One vet wanted to say that his cancer was from carbs, so that's the level of idiocy I was dealing with. If he had a better prognosis, I would have sent him to a cancer specialist or even a good-old-fashioned horse vet to see about palliative care, and the specialists at the vet school were booked for months. We were told he go at any time, though he lived a month or two longer than expected.

Anyway, I now have a supply of meds from India for my dogs like prednisone if they have a limp, because I refuse to give a vet $100 for doing the bare minimum, including missing fatal diagnoses in the past. There is even a watch group in my state about the lack of care by vets here, and every vet knows the state boards do nothing.

 

[StonePny]

TL;DR: Don't trust your vets for pain management.

So sorry to hear about the bad news. I did have my dog with kidney cancer on a high-calorie prescription food, which may have helped prevent cachexia. But some cheap peanut butter helped too.

I don't know about the peptides, but most vets suck for pain management when the time comes (unless the pain is bad enough for euthenasia), and I found out later there is an entire book on the subject that throws the status quo under the bus. I was banned from two of my local vet offices after telling them to go to hell for being very dismissive in the pain management department (for my newly-adopted senior dog with end-stage kidney cancer).

They would not even try to see if the dog, which had a large mass, would act differently on some real pain meds besides gabapentin. They must have thought I was a drug seeker or something (even though they can give a shot of tramadol), and maybe he was fine anyway.

One vet wanted to say that his cancer was from carbs, so that's the level of idiocy I was dealing with. If he had a better prognosis, I would have sent him to a cancer specialist or even a good-old-fashioned horse vet to see about palliative care, and the specialists at the vet school were booked for months. We were told he go at any time, though he lived a month or two longer than expected.

Anyway, I now have a supply of meds from India for my dogs like prednisone if they have a limp, because I refuse to give a vet $100 for doing the bare minimum, including missing fatal diagnoses in the past. There is even a watch group in my state about the lack of care by vets here, and every vet knows the state boards do nothing.

Thanks for the info, I'm so sorry about your ordeal. And I love you for adopting an older dog with health issues.

 

[StonePny]

i've injected several vials of pnc027 and there are no side effects for me. it probably won;t hurt him and I would be very very interested in how it works out.

Thanks, where you were able to get it, if you don't mind saying? The only vendor (I need to have it asap) I've seen is Polaris Peptides.

 

[Calm Logic]

Found out yesterday that our beloved Stone, who is the StonePony, has osteosarcoma (bone cancer) at just not quite 5 years old. His front leg, which with a giant dog cannot be amputated.

This medication, zoledronate, (listed at GoodRx for $17+ and also available from India) is usually given to dogs by IV but could be done by injection for some effect. Though it exhibits anti-tumor activity, it is given to support the bones, potentially extending quality of life by reducing pain and the odds of fracture:

Zoledronate (a potent bisphosphonate) is used in dogs with osteosarcoma to help decrease malignant skeletal destruction, reduce bone pain, and potentially decrease the risk of pathological fractures (fractures that occur due to weakened bone from the tumor).

While it can help reduce pain indirectly by strengthening bones and reducing bone breakdown, it won't directly treat pain caused by existing fractures or other conditions.

More info:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskVet/comments/16ptuna/osteosarcoma_in_large_dogs_what_is_the_endpoint

The dog I had with kidney cancer was put on prednisone (in addition to gabapentin) after going to another vet:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskVet/comments/1hl6v6z/prednisone_for_osteosarcoma_in_dog

But at least three different medications could be ideal for "multi-modal" pain management, especially when dealing with such an aggressive cancer that requires pain management at every stage. As you probably know, you can't give NSAIDs with prednisone, it's one or the other. The vets I have had usually go with prednisone rather than meloxicam for anything very significant.

From what I read, tramadol and amantadine are also mentioned frequently for pain. I used my own tramadol since the vets would not prescribe it, but they should have no problem for bone cancer.

 

[Pinmebaby1moretime]

Hey I’m so so sorry. I know what it’s like for your dog to get cancer. I made the mistake of trusting a veterinary oncologist and gave them all my money and he lived only 2 months post diagnosis.

There is one thing I would do- use FidoCure.

They will test your dogs DNA- you can send them bloodwork through your vet. After that, they will find human drug therapy that has been used for similar DNA mutations (im paraphrasing so def read up on it) the total cost is $5k including the genome sequencing to see the cancer mutations and also for the life of your dog, they will provide endless supply of meds. They may have changed their pricing structure because this was a few years ago but it’s still way better than chemotherapy. Some dogs like mine have the mdr1 mutation and chemo makes everything worse. He suffered more than it helped.

Anyways FidoCure- definitely look into it. And give your pup the biggest kiss from us all ❤️

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

the total cost is $5k

that's gonna hurt. I'd just do the peps mentioned above for a few hundred.

 

[Calm Logic]

Ditto:

Osteosarcoma in Dogs - DogCancer.com

Osteosarcoma in dogs is an aggressive bone cancer. It is a scary and devastating diagnosis, but there are treatment options available that can extend and improve the quality of your dog’s life. Osteosarcoma in dogs is used as a model for the same cancer that affects children, so there may be...

www.dogcancer.com

It may be a good idea to “adopt a hospice mindset” right from the beginning with this cancer type, as that will help you manage your expectations and your treatment choices.

With the peptides, I would be only looking to them for support/palliation. By the time of diagnosis, the cancer has usually already spread to the lungs. From Google Gemini:

While only a small percentage (around 5-10%, though some sources say up to 20%) of dogs with osteosarcoma will have radiographically visible lung metastases at the time of diagnosis, it is widely accepted by veterinary oncologists that microscopic (occult) metastases are present in 80-90% of cases at the time of diagnosis.