Christine S
New_Member
I'm looking for something other that bactrostatic water for Cagrilintide. The agent needs to have a ph of 4. Any suggestions?
Reconstituting agent for Cagrilintide
- Thread starter Christine S
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Unfortunately the pH of whatever is being used to reconstitute cag is not necessarily going to have the desired effect depending on what buffers may have been used to control pH prior to lyophilization. Best bet is to use BAC, test the pH, and then try to adjust as necessary with acetic acid. Depending on who produced it, it may reconstitute to the proper pH without any problem.
JohnnyGobbs
New_Member
What’s the downside of uhh not having the proper PH and using cagril? I’ve been microdosing it with standard BAC.
nurseratchit
Research Enthusiast
Probably just local site pain & irritation but could also result in tissue damage. Some drugs will solidify if not within their pH range which would make them ineffective and you could get little hard deposits (granulomas) under the skin. I am not familiar enough with cagri to know if that’s an issue.
Christine S
New_Member
I have checked the ph. twice now and it's at 6 after being reconstituted. I have heard that it is still good for about a month, but any longer than that can actually cause health problems?
Christine S
New_Member
PREMISE 2: When fibrils are injected SQ, it will find its way all over your body such as your brain tissue. PREMISE 3: The fibrils that are deposited in the brain tissue cause Alzheimer's. In short, the concern was: going from premise 1 to premise 3, if you reconstitute your Cagri at pH above 4, are you putting yourself at high risk for Alzheimer's? This is what I have been researching
Christine S
New_Member
The comments in the thread are actually giving me pause. I bought a cheap cagri kit but I didn't realize there's a possibility of the pH making it harmful. Maybe I'll stick to the GLPs
JohnnyGobbs
New_Member
I had this exact same concern and question based on the research I did. It was a bunch of complex and abstract stuff and I’m not a chemist so but I arrived with the same question basically about the fibrils. Again I’m not qualified to answer it. Would be pretty crazy though if just 2 PH degree difference would be this crucial to risk Alzheimer’s. Kinda makes the entire drug seem sketchy regardless lol.
I found a study, but it is just an overview of the topic;
Does anyone have a link to some actual research to back up these claims about Alzheimer's risk etc?
Does anyone have a link to some actual research to back up these claims about Alzheimer's risk etc?
AnnSolo771
New_Member
Interesting discussion with PhD Pharmaceutical Chemist, Pharma Med Director, among others.... one cut/paste from SME/PhD mentioned above;
and this vid re
- "I read every single one of the papers in full and I have a PhD in pharmaceutical chemistry. This is a nothingburgur. Yes cagrilinitide is more stable at pH 4. But is stable enough at pH 7 for us to use it. Would I want to store it for six months after reconstitution? No. But the biggest risk is that it degrades and loses some efficacy, not that it forms fibrils and is a safety risk."
- ....much more info in the thread with links to Cagri trials/studies. interesting stuff.
and this vid re
Amyloid hypothesis - beta oligomers and plaques
- https://dnalc.cshl.edu/view/2134-Amyloid-hypothesis-beta-oligomers-and-plaques.html
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OK, but is there a specific research/study? I prefer academic, peer-reviewed studies... I'm not saying it's not true, don't get me wrong, I just prefer to read hard scientific evidence. Discussions on reddit or talks/videos from individuals are not exactly the kind of evidence I am looking for. From the study above, what they say is more like: "cagrilintide suppress the development of amyloid fibrils"...
I found actually contrasting studies, for example:
doi.org
EDIT: forgot to mention this review is actually about GLP-1 RAs however
I found actually contrasting studies, for example:
Clinical Evidence for GLP-1 Receptor Agonists in Alzheimer’s Disease: A Systematic Review - IOS Press
Background: Alzheimer’s disease (AD) is the most common cause of dementia. While preclinical studies have shown benefits of glucagon-like peptide 1 receptor agonists (GLP-1 RA) in targeting core AD pathology, clinical studies are limited. Objective:
doi.org
EDIT: forgot to mention this review is actually about GLP-1 RAs however
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JohnnyGobbs
New_Member
Need someone taking Cagril with an actual chemistry / biomedical background to look into all this and interpret these findings. It’s over my head.
AnnSolo771
New_Member
Agree. I cannot find anything yet other than threads/links in subreds. I woukd think NEJM might have a study or Nature- but would need a research ‘.edu’ email domain to search/review. Google Scholar is a good place to start for search/ journal pubs.
I have access thru university but I cannot find anything that suggests Cagri causes Alzheimers.
Only articles (but about GLP-1 RAs) that prevent it and that Cagri itself prevents the formation of fibrils.
But again, don't get me wrong, I'm open to anything as long as I can see reliable evidence.
AnnSolo771
New_Member
Good info re a broad study, quoted above in my post but all info and studies are still so new that there is not a lot of research out there -- yet. Studies are happening now, not concluded.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Interesting site re clinical trials, results, status/phases, a scatter chart and more (create a free account to view): https://synapse.patsnap.com/disease/b3defa728b984052bb1a46f2308f0545
Amylin, Another Important Neuroendocrine Hormone for the Treatment of Diabesity - PMC
Diabetes mellitus is a devastating chronic metabolic disease. Since the majority of type 2 diabetes mellitus patients are overweight or obese, a novel term—diabesity—has emerged. The gut–brain axis plays a critical function in maintaining glucose ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
- key point 3.2 Cagrilintide/quote: The therapeutic role of cagrilintide is not fully understood due to limited research, and ongoing studies aim to elucidate its potential. Nevertheless, we have tried to summarize the available data about this promising drug.
- key point 3.2 Cagrilintide/quote: There are several differences in the peptide structure of cagrilintide compared to pramlintide. The proline substitutions (Pro25, Pro28, and Pro29) in cagrilintide suppress the development of amyloid fibrils. Furthermore, the Tyr37 Pro substitution boosts efficacy.
- key point, #4 - Conclusion/quote: Overall, the current evidence suggests that both pramlintide and cagrilintide are safe, effective, and promising drugs that successfully reduce body weight in patients with T2DM and consequently regulate glucose homeostasis. We expect that the results of many critical ongoing studies will shed further light on the clinical pharmacology and therapeutic potentials of amylin and its analogs.
from what I have read so far, cagri prevents the formation of the sorts of fibrils that would cause neurodegeneration/AD, but liraglutide is the proving to be the big big show stopper against AD. I am going to keep looking.
Interesting site re clinical trials, results, status/phases, a scatter chart and more (create a free account to view): https://synapse.patsnap.com/disease/b3defa728b984052bb1a46f2308f0545
It’s amazing watching the fear mongering run out of control. It started with a guy who didn’t know how to interpret a study thinking that cagri will go bad in days if you don’t get creative with reconstituting it, and has developed into cagri causing Alzheimer’s. Mind blowing.
AnnSolo771
New_Member
Tis. I personally do not put stock in the idea that Cagri causes AD, at all. But people seem concerned. The studies for Cagri aren't all in yet, so once that info is available, it will likely quiet the multitudes. Assuming the phase 2, 3's don't fail ; ). My RS is currently on Cagri + Tirz.
Do you have additional study info? I like reading it!
this study actually saying it is protective, I still don't see from where comes the idea it causes Alzheirmer'sGood info re a broad study, quoted above in my post but all info and studies are still so new that there is not a lot of research out there -- yet. Studies are happening now, not concluded.
Amylin, Another Important Neuroendocrine Hormone for the Treatment of Diabesity - PMC
Diabetes mellitus is a devastating chronic metabolic disease. Since the majority of type 2 diabetes mellitus patients are overweight or obese, a novel term—diabesity—has emerged. The gut–brain axis plays a critical function in maintaining glucose ...
- key point 3.2 Cagrilintide/quote: The therapeutic role of cagrilintide is not fully understood due to limited research, and ongoing studies aim to elucidate its potential. Nevertheless, we have tried to summarize the available data about this promising drug.
- key point 3.2 Cagrilintide/quote: There are several differences in the peptide structure of cagrilintide compared to pramlintide. The proline substitutions (Pro25, Pro28, and Pro29) in cagrilintide suppress the development of amyloid fibrils. Furthermore, the Tyr37 Pro substitution boosts efficacy.
- key point, #4 - Conclusion/quote: Overall, the current evidence suggests that both pramlintide and cagrilintide are safe, effective, and promising drugs that successfully reduce body weight in patients with T2DM and consequently regulate glucose homeostasis. We expect that the results of many critical ongoing studies will shed further light on the clinical pharmacology and therapeutic potentials of amylin and its analogs.
from what I have read so far, cagri prevents the formation of the sorts of fibrils that would cause neurodegeneration/AD, but liraglutide is the proving to be the big big show stopper against AD. I am going to keep looking.
Interesting site re clinical trials, results, status/phases, a scatter chart and more (create a free account to view): https://synapse.patsnap.com/disease/b3defa728b984052bb1a46f2308f0545
And this sentence "The therapeutic role of cagrilintide is not fully understood due to limited research, and ongoing studies aim to elucidate its potential" is a pretty general one that is basically used in almost every other study
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yeah, based on "science from reddit", funny is it?
