Reta and Muscle vs Fat Loss

[grandmaincrocs]

Hey so for some context I have been nose deep in clinical trials as well as basic academic research on reta. I have a question about ratios that I have seen two differing theories on. There seems to be two arguments, one being that people by ratio lose less lean muscle to fat while on reta compared to normal dieting. The other side is that reta has no effect on this ratio. I am aware of the "increased fat oxidation", however some people claim that this increase is negligible to the point that the ratio of fat to muscle loss does not move. I am asking because I am thinking of hitting a small body recomp before summer. Thanks. (sorry for bad wording)

 

[sa12uk]

My limited understanding...

All the drug is doing is making calorie control easier. If you keep your protein high and resistance training the same while reducing calories from fats and carbs (the drug helping you achieve this by switching off food noise) then you'll maximise the amount of muscle you hold on to while dieting.

Take the drug, no training and shitty low protein food and there's a good chance your body will breakdown muscle as well as fat for it's fuel source.

 

[CNCCurrency]

Hey so for some context I have been nose deep in clinical trials as well as basic academic research on reta. I have a question about ratios that I have seen two differing theories on. There seems to be two arguments, one being that people by ratio lose less lean muscle to fat while on reta compared to normal dieting. The other side is that reta has no effect on this ratio. I am aware of the "increased fat oxidation", however some people claim that this increase is negligible to the point that the ratio of fat to muscle loss does not move. I am asking because I am thinking of hitting a small body recomp before summer. Thanks. (sorry for bad wording)

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that reta had the lowest muscle loss % of the three

 

[Jerrydee]

Every GLP1 works in this way if you don’t train yourself and get good habits while taking the support of GLP1 you will loose both fat and muscle , but if done right , high protein intake and filling the gaps of fat loss with mussels by work out , muscle loss can be prevented, good luck on your journey

 

[ronin365]

I have had some difficulty eating as much as I did before starting Reta. So I am losing weight, but I am also making gains in the gym, hitting PRs, and seeing muscle growth. From my limited experience, I would say Reta seems to have a muscle-sparing effect. I fully expected to have plateaued by now or to have lost some gains with the weight loss.

 

[latviantower]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that reta had the lowest muscle loss % of the three

I’ve been on tirz for 18 months and believed the hype about reta until someone on this site shared a study showing tirz and Reta were virtually identical in muscle / fat loss. So I’m sticking with tirz. By broad consensus tirz does have better food noise suppression.

 

[DunningKruger]

Hey so for some context I have been nose deep in clinical trials as well as basic academic research on reta. I have a question about ratios that I have seen two differing theories on. There seems to be two arguments, one being that people by ratio lose less lean muscle to fat while on reta compared to normal dieting. The other side is that reta has no effect on this ratio. I am aware of the "increased fat oxidation", however some people claim that this increase is negligible to the point that the ratio of fat to muscle loss does not move. I am asking because I am thinking of hitting a small body recomp before summer. Thanks. (sorry for bad wording)

Started Reta Jan 7 (2mg, now testing 1mg the last few weeks). My DEXA showed similar results. Though, there are other variables at play here: Tesamorelin 1mg/nightly, fitness (although I've been slacking here), and 1g - 1.5g (per lb/bodyweight) of protein daily from red meat, collagen peptides in my coffee, and Kaha whey powder when appetite signalling is too blunted.

If you do resistance training and make sure your protein is up to stave off lean tissue catabolism, you should be fine. There's always the option of using a GH secretagogue to help providing you don't have any contraindications, like pre-cancerous growths, etc.

 

[woundcarping]

To help my lean mass preservation I’m doing Reta, TRT, lifting weights, and taking HMB-FA. I should have my second dxa in 5-6 weeks or so (next weight loss target number), it’ll be fun to compare to the first..

 

[Dogmandu]

The general anecdotal consensus seems to be that Reta is a bit more muscle sparing than the others. There is no published research on the topic. I was so worried about muscle loss that I leaned into extra protein, increased TRT by 20%, added Tesa, but most importantly, increased lifting weights. Happy to say I have gained muscle mass. I would guess that even without TRT and Tesa, I would have held onto or gained some lean mass with just lifting and hitting protein targets.

 

[woundcarping]

The general anecdotal consensus seems to be that Reta is a bit more muscle sparing than the others. There is no published research on the topic. I was so worried about muscle loss that I leaned into extra protein, increased TRT by 20%, added Tesa, but most importantly, increased lifting weights. Happy to say I have gained muscle mass. I would guess that even without TRT and Tesa, I would have held onto or gained some lean mass with just lifting and hitting protein targets.

Interesting, I started TRT last month, I'll get my first TRT bloodwork mid next month. My next DXA scan should be 2-4 weeks after that.

I hadn't considered bumping my presumptively conservative (40mg 3x weekly, script is 100mg 2x weekly) dose to be slightly more elevated while cutting another 50+lb. I'll stick with my current dose to not mess with my upcoming labs. Assuming I have clearance in my labs, I'll may up my dose and run labs again in another ~8 weeks to see how levels are responding... gotta do some research on how protective/generative the extra bump would be (risk vs reward).

Do you have any imparting wisdom you're willing to share from your TRT?

 

[MFGamesta]

Interesting, I started TRT last month, I'll get my first TRT bloodwork mid next month. My next DXA scan should be 2-4 weeks after that.

I hadn't considered bumping my presumptively conservative (40mg 3x weekly, script is 100mg 2x weekly) dose to be slightly more elevated while cutting another 50+lb. I'll stick with my current dose to not mess with my upcoming labs. Assuming I have clearance in my labs, I'll may up my dose and run labs again in another ~8 weeks to see how levels are responding... gotta do some research on how protective/generative the extra bump would be (risk vs reward).

Do you have any imparting wisdom you're willing to share from your TRT?

200mg per week is a pretty high starting dose, assuming you're referring to using 1ml of 200mg/ml gear. Remember, test cip has a half life of about a week so don't mess with your dosages 4 weeks before blood work and usually you want to wait ~11 days after last shot to get the best reading of your levels. (Or whatever days your Dr. says). If you're doing 40mg x3 weekly, let your Dr know so he will know how to accurately evaluate your bloodwork.

I to am on reta and trt. 60 yo male. 6'0" currently at goal weight of 170 with body fat at 12%. I reached my goal weight about 8 weeks ago and switched from tirz to reta about 6 weeks ago. I lost a ton of muscle weight during my "metabolic reset". Tirz has increased my appetite but it's still burning fat like a MF. I'm actually titrating down from 4mg to 2 mg as my eating can't keep up with the weight loss. May go to micro dosing or just quit. I do go to the gym and lift 3-4 days a week and also play hard tennis 3-5 days a week with some days doing both. I can't eat enough protein.

 

[woundcarping]

Yeah I’m not doing anything two weeks out from the labs (more than just trt).

200mg/ week is their generic script… I’m very much ok with that script continuing on. I’ll be interpreting my labs myself and using the doctor to answer questions/raise any red flags in my understanding.

Did a bit of studying last night, my rough baseline for adjusting my dose will be total test and hemocrit, assuming nothing else raises a red flag.

 

[MFGamesta]

Yeah I’m not doing anything two weeks out from the labs (more than just trt).

200mg/ week is their generic script… I’m very much ok with that script continuing on. I’ll be interpreting my labs myself and using the doctor to answer questions/raise any red flags in my understanding.

Did a bit of studying last night, my rough baseline for adjusting my dose will be total test and hemocrit, assuming nothing else raises a red flag.

Add free testosterone to your test. That's what your body can use.

 

[woundcarping]

Add free testosterone to your test. That's what your body can use.

Yeah I’m getting a laundry list of testing done, but total test and hemocrit will be the main factors in deciding if I want to push higher, unless there are red flags elsewhere.

 

[Dogmandu]

Interesting, I started TRT last month, I'll get my first TRT bloodwork mid next month. My next DXA scan should be 2-4 weeks after that.

I hadn't considered bumping my presumptively conservative (40mg 3x weekly, script is 100mg 2x weekly) dose to be slightly more elevated while cutting another 50+lb. I'll stick with my current dose to not mess with my upcoming labs. Assuming I have clearance in my labs, I'll may up my dose and run labs again in another ~8 weeks to see how levels are responding... gotta do some research on how protective/generative the extra bump would be (risk vs reward).

Do you have any imparting wisdom you're willing to share from your TRT?

100 mg 2x a week seems to what a lot of testosterone/men's online health clinics start people off at. I think that is too much.

200 mg a week chronically is well above normal physiologic levels for most men. Clinics also send patients off with a low-dose Anastrazole prescription knowing full well that 200 mg will goose their estradiol (E2) level.

200 mg is an aggressive 'bro-dose' and clinics have found out that that's what a lot of young male gym goers want to maximize muscle. It works for sure. With the Anas to take care of high estradiol, they've addressed side effect #1. Side effect #2 is high DHT and increases male pattern hair loss. Side effect #3 is increased hematocrit (thicker blood) that requires blood donation a few times a year. Then you have changes in lipid panel and acne.

I think what you did is brilliant: 120 mg split into 3 doses. The frequent dosing minimizes aromatization to estradiol. 120 mg is at the upper end of normal. You will get a lot of anabolic effects without most of the sides. I was at 120 like you. I went a tad more aggressive at 140 mg and now I need low-dose Anas. Not worth the drama of high E2. I was putting on muscle just fine at 120.

Just my opinions. There are competitive bodybuilders running cycles of 400 mg. I'm a dude with kids in high school. I don't need more than 120.

 

[chelsea daggerz]

Muscle to fat loss ratio is comparable to standard dieting for Reta. The average is 75% fat loss : 25% LBM(skeletal muscle, water, bones and organs). This is likely close to the best case scenario ratio during weight loss-meaning staying consistent with a weight training program and keeping protein intake levels high enough to preserve lean tissue. Slacking on these will result in increased muscle loss.

 

[woundcarping]

100 mg 2x a week seems to what a lot of testosterone/men's online health clinics start people off at. I think that is too much.

200 mg a week chronically is well above normal physiologic levels for most men. Clinics also send patients off with a low-dose Anastrazole prescription knowing full well that 200 mg will goose their estradiol (E2) level.

200 mg is an aggressive 'bro-dose' and clinics have found out that that's what a lot of young male gym goers want to maximize muscle. It works for sure. With the Anas to take care of high estradiol, they've addressed side effect #1. Side effect #2 is high DHT and increases male pattern hair loss. Side effect #3 is increased hematocrit (thicker blood) that requires blood donation a few times a year. Then you have changes in lipid panel and acne.

I think what you did is brilliant: 120 mg split into 3 doses. The frequent dosing minimizes aromatization to estradiol. 120 mg is at the upper end of normal. You will get a lot of anabolic effects without most of the sides. I was at 120 like you. I went a tad more aggressive at 140 mg and now I need low-dose Anas. Not worth the drama of high E2. I was putting on muscle just fine at 120.

Just my opinions. There are competitive bodybuilders running cycles of 400 mg. I'm a dude with kids in high school. I don't need more than 120.

My daughter has 5 years until high school.

I was figuring my likely dose increase would be to 135mg or maybe 150mg, but figured my hemocrit wouldn’t support that.

Also it seems like I’d be more likely to get more benefit vs hassle once I’m at a much lower body fat percentage, if it even came to that being a thing that I wanted to do.

Nice thing about 120mg/week is you can get 16 weeks out of a 2000mg vial you get every 10 weeks…

 

[Dogmandu]

My daughter has 5 years until high school.

I was figuring my likely dose increase would be to 135mg or maybe 150mg, but figured my hemocrit wouldn’t support that.

Also it seems like I’d be more likely to get more benefit vs hassle once I’m at a much lower body fat percentage, if it even came to that being a thing that I wanted to do.

Nice thing about 120mg/week is you can get 16 weeks out of a 2000mg vial you get every 10 weeks…

You're spot on. If you use Reta to get to much lower body fat %, especially visceral fat, your will aromatize less of the T to E2. That may spare you the need for Anastrozole. But 150 will likely require a couple of therapeutic phlebotomies a year.

 

[grandmaincrocs]

The general anecdotal consensus seems to be that Reta is a bit more muscle sparing than the others. There is no published research on the topic. I was so worried about muscle loss that I leaned into extra protein, increased TRT by 20%, added Tesa, but most importantly, increased lifting weights. Happy to say I have gained muscle mass. I would guess that even without TRT and Tesa, I would have held onto or gained some lean mass with just lifting and hitting protein targets.

This is what I was thinking. Just by hearing people talk about reta it felt like some saw reta as a "burn fat slower" and others were stronger but burned a higher percentage of muscle. My worry is trying to project how I do without TRT as at my age and current medical condition I dont want to touch what is already quite fine/good test production. Obviously we take things slowly and I dont think jumping from nothing to 3 peps and TRT is a good idea.