RT15 recon with Hosp and its cloudy with particles floating around. HELP

The vendor "solution" to this TFA issue has been to lower the pH with PBS, or Phosphate Buffered Saline. It's used in biological research to maintain a constant pH level. There was an extensive discussion of that here:

cloudy reta (I have good BAC) https://glp1forum.com/threads/cloudy-reta-i-have-good-bac.13048/

The other suggestion was AA, but that creates an acidic environment, which I think could potentially degrade the Reta faster. I'm not sure how @ambot88 made out with their rescue attempt, but the vendor did agree to replace the kit. That's what I would do.
 
Chili777 said:
There was an extensive discussion of that here:
https://glp1forum.com/threads/cloudy-reta-i-have-good-bac.13048/
Click to expand...
That's a good thread, thanks for the link.

Many good comments but I thought this one was worth emphasizing.
For those who don't have patience for the whole thing, skip to the last paragraph which I bolded
GusGustavson said:
Commenting because I saw other people mentioning this problem too.
Some science behind it. Maybe interesting for others who have had this happen or if it ever happens in the future. The cloudiness is likely a pH problem. The peptide likely has residual TFA salts from manufacturing that should not be there, and when BAC water is added the combined acidity lands right on retatrutide's isoelectric point. The molecules lose their charge, clump together, and crash out of solution. That's the cloud.

The simplest thing to rule out is the BAC water itself. Hospira's own spec allows pH from 4.5 to 7.0, which is a huge range. A bottle sitting at the low end will crash TFA laden peptide while a bottle at the high end might reconstitute it perfectly clear.
Trying BAC water from a different supplier or at least a different production lot is the most practical first step before reaching for any other options. With pH strips it is possible to compare different BAC bottles and see if it explains the cloudiness.
Also worth noting that Hospira is one of the most counterfeited medical products out there. If it's fake and actually contains sodium chloride, that causes a whole different precipitation problem, and switching supplier would immediately reveal that.

And filtering a cloudy solution removes the peptide itself, not some contaminant. That cloud IS the retatrutide. A significant portion of the dose can be lost with no way of knowing how much. Filtering only makes sense after the solution has already been cleared through a pH correction, to remove the small fraction of irreversible aggregates.

The PBS rescue not staying clear is because aggregate seeds formed while the peptide sat at the wrong pH. Those seeds act as templates that slowly pull dissolved peptide back out of solution. Adding more PBS won't fix that because it's a structural problem not a pH problem at that point.

Acetic acid can make it look clear but the initial clumping that was visible was further aggregation before redissolving. Some peptide was likely damaged irreversibly, and the solution is now in a more acidic environment that degrades it faster over time.
[...]
Would I use cloudy solution? No.
Aggregated peptide can train the immune system to recognize that peptide as a threat. Once antibodies develop against it, they can neutralize not just the aggregated form but also properly dissolved peptide in future injections. Pinning cloudy product can in theory make clean product less effective later.
Click to expand...
 
Mr.Tired said:
That's a good thread, thanks for the link.

Many good comments but I thought this one was worth emphasizing.
For those who don't have patience for the whole thing, skip to the last paragraph which I bolded
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not completely sure about that because the PBS is supposed to eliminate the aggregation. It really doesn't matter anyway because a replacement is the right course of action.
 
Chili777 said:
The vendor "solution" to this TFA issue has been to lower the pH with PBS, or Phosphate Buffered Saline. It's used in biological research to maintain a constant pH level. There was an extensive discussion of that here:

cloudy reta (I have good BAC) https://glp1forum.com/threads/cloudy-reta-i-have-good-bac.13048/

The other suggestion was AA, but that creates an acidic environment, which I think could potentially degrade the Reta faster. I'm not sure how @ambot88 made out with their rescue attempt, but the vendor did agree to replace the kit. That's what I would do.
Click to expand...
The pbs rescue did work as far as I can tell - a 30%pbs to bac ratio reconned clear and I've been using it and haven't died. The vendor did replace my order but I'm still just using all of it. I did also try the AA and it created a ton of particulates and looked much worse but then cleared up after awhile - that made me nervous and I didn't pin that one.
 
Sorry, not a chemist, what does the sourcing mean when they say it is extra salts? Does that mean if THAT-GIRL filters - the extra salts would be removed? Or can you use it with the extra salts (might clog your needle?) - personally, I think I would toss the batch.
 
SoCalGirl said:
Sorry, not a chemist, what does the sourcing mean when they say it is extra salts? Does that mean if THAT-GIRL filters - the extra salts would be removed? Or can you use it with the extra salts (might clog your needle?) - personally, I think I would toss the batch.
Click to expand...
TFA salts can't be filtered even by the .1um filters so you're pretty much out of luck.
 
GYC is selling black top R15 with the caveat that it may reconstitute cloudy, but it can be rectified with PBS, and a warning not to buy if this is unacceptable. (I assume it's from the same manufacturer as Barn and ERP.)

Just checked their website and there's nothing left for sale, so it appears they had plenty of takers. I don't know what the price was, but it's $140 in the EU warehouse.
 
BNLFL said:
I have 4.5 of Reta, all clean. Added another 600MG, and might do another 600 in a few. 600mg is good for 11 months at the current weekly use rate. You're winning... 🤣
Click to expand...
Pulp Fiction Briefcase GIF

I bet it looks like this when you open that freezer. Just...heaven.
 
I got some rt20 from another seller and they do the same thing, but after several minutes they go clear
 
From a few second read on wikipedia TFA salts do not sound like something you want to be injecting, so not using it would definitely be safer, even if the peptide was dissolved the contaminant is still there and still toxic.
 
Derby said:
GYC is selling black top R15 with the caveat that it may reconstitute cloudy, but it can be rectified with PBS, and a warning not to buy if this is unacceptable. (I assume it's from the same manufacturer as Barn and ERP.)

Just checked their website and there's nothing left for sale, so it appears they had plenty of takers. I don't know what the price was, but it's $140 in the EU warehouse.
Click to expand...
From what I read pbs can’t be injected
 
Nuts. I have reconned two black top 15s from early March and while neither is cloudy, they do have white particles that take some time to dissolve. I'm not sure if that's unusual, I'm kinda new to this. I have used all of the first vial and just started the second.

Got two kits in the freezer. Should I request a replacement? Maybe I'll recon another vial and watch it more closely.

Mine are labeled: 2025B53-12
 
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I added a little bit of sodium bicarbonate to mine and it cleared it up and particles dissolved. So it’s clear as can be but ph level is at an 8-9 and that’s kinda high.

I just don’t have enough experience to trust that the sodium bicarbonate was the fix.
 
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