Blake41
New Member
Curious what are the doses per week when stacking NAD, MOTS-C and tirz? What did you find is working for you?
SS-31 protocols?
- Thread starter Lullabytreehugger
- Start date
I'm experimenting with 10mg ss31 alternating with 10mg motsc. In a study with ss31 the doses are very high. They gave 40mg to kids over 40kg body weight for condition described here.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Use of Elamipretide in patients assigned treatment in the compassionate use program: Case series in pediatric patients with rare orphan diseases - PMC
Several mitochondrial diseases are caused by pathogenic variants that impair membrane phospholipid remodeling, with no FDA‐approved therapies. Elamipretide targets the inner mitochondrial membrane where it binds to cardiolipin, resulting in improved ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Blake41
New Member
Do you think ss31 is needed with/before mots-c?I'm experimenting with 10mg ss31 alternating with 10mg motsc. In a study with ss31 the doses are very high. They gave 40mg to kids over 40kg body weight for condition described here.
Use of Elamipretide in patients assigned treatment in the compassionate use program: Case series in pediatric patients with rare orphan diseases - PMC
Several mitochondrial diseases are caused by pathogenic variants that impair membrane phospholipid remodeling, with no FDA‐approved therapies. Elamipretide targets the inner mitochondrial membrane where it binds to cardiolipin, resulting in improved ...
I have no idea. I did ss31 4 weeks 10mg and then did motsc with Dr seeds protocol and saw no effect. I'm trying to alternate them now and see if there's any difference. Maybe my mitochondria is just fine though.
RubiJeep_Girl
New_Member
I only did two weeks of MOTSc and didn’t really feel any affects, I did 5mg every few days. Then I read you should start with SS31 first, so I stopped it.
Now with NAD+ twice weekly, I felt it during my workouts. I felt I could keep going, I could go longer. It’s a little boost of energy without feeling jittery. This week I’m increasing to three times a week.
I’ll pick up the SS31 & MOTSc in February after I finish this cycle of AOD and NAD+.
I've just started my 3d week of SS31 today. I stopped using lipo-c with NAD+ (Pegasus from Kimera Chems) for a few weeks before starting ss31 because I wanted to feel whatever there might be to feel with ss31, without external energy. And I'm very glad that I did. I plan on doing the three stages of this protocol - ss31/mots-c/Nad+ - in that order - and either for 8 weeks each or 12 weeks each. Though I have no scientific data to point to, I think that using ss31 not only cleans the mitochondria (whether you "feel" anything or not, it's working behind the scenes), but I think it also primes the cells for all the other peps you might research afterwards. I am doing ss31 daily, started low at 1mg, and have moved up to 3mg. I like how I feel - good clean energy and though I'm usually very focused, I do feel like my focus has become even more intense! Though the typical ss31 protocol seems to be 4mg off the bat, daily, running for 21 or 28 days or 1 month or 2 months or more, I wanted to move up slowly and I'm glad I am doing that too - so I started at 1mg, moved to 1.5mg, 2mg, 2.5mg, and now at 3mg over fourteen days. I think I'll stay at 3mg for the whole of this week and then reassess, staying at 3mg or moving up to 3.5mg. Once I decide whether to run ss31 for 8 or 12 weeks, I will add in mots-c about 3 weeks before I finish ss-31. The typical protocol for mots seems to be 5mg 3x a week, but I intend to start low there too, at 1mg again, to see how I react. I'll run mots-c, and increase dosing as feels right to me, drop the ss-31, continue the mots- and either at 8 weeks or 12, I'll introduce the NAD+, and again, I'll start low, not at 25mg with a fast titration schedule up, but at 10mg 3x a week, and move up slowly as I see fit. I can see keeping ss31 as a regular part of my pep protocols.
scarywood75
Member
More info on ss31 and what you may have experienced (generated with scite.ai):
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Based on the references provided, the key points about the use of SS31 peptide are:
- SS31 is a mitochondria-targeted antioxidant peptide that can inhibit apoptosis and oxidative stress by maintaining mitochondrial structure and function (1, 2, 3, 4). It has been shown to protect against various conditions involving mitochondrial dysfunction, such as sepsis-induced muscle weakness (2), atrial fibrillation (5), high glucose-induced neuronal damage (3), and tert-butylhydroperoxide-induced oxidative damage in retinal cells (4).
- SS31 has also been used in combination with other drugs or nanoparticles to enhance their therapeutic effects, such as in the treatment of myocardial ischemia-reperfusion injury (1, 6), Alzheimer's disease (7), and abdominal aortic aneurysm (8).
- The protective effects of SS31 have been attributed to its ability to reduce mitochondrial ROS production, stabilize mitochondrial membrane potential, and modulate signaling pathways like the p38 MAPK pathway (9, 10).
In summary, the references indicate that SS31 is a promising mitochondria-targeted antioxidant with a wide range of therapeutic applications, particularly in conditions involving mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative stress.
References:
1. Zhang, Z., Chen, Z., Yang, L., Zhang, J., Li, Y., Li, C., … & Xiao, W. (2022). Platelet membrane–encapsulated msns loaded with ss31 peptide alleviate myocardial ischemia-reperfusion injury. *Journal of Functional Biomaterials, 13*(4), 181. https://doi.org/10.3390/jfb13040181
2. Supinski, G., Wang, L., Schroder, E., & Callahan, L. (2020). Ss31, a mitochondrially targeted antioxidant, prevents sepsis-induced reductions in diaphragm strength and endurance. *Journal of Applied Physiology, 128*(3), 463-472. https://doi.org/10.1152/japplphysiol.00240.2019
3. Cao, M., Jiang, J., Du, Y., & Yan, P. (2012). Mitochondria-targeted antioxidant attenuates high glucose-induced p38 mapk pathway activation in human neuroblastoma cells. *Molecular Medicine Reports, 5*(4), 929-934. https://doi.org/10.3892/mmr.2012.746
4. Ma, W., Zhu, X., Ding, X., Li, T., Hu, Y., Hu, X., … & Tang, S. (2015). Protective effects of ss31 on t-bhp induced oxidative damage in 661w cells. *Molecular Medicine Reports, 12*(4), 5026-5034. https://doi.org/10.3892/mmr.2015.4055
5. Wiersma, M., Marion, D., Wüst, R., Houtkooper, R., Zhang, D., Groot, N., … & Brundel, B. (2019). Mitochondrial dysfunction underlies cardiomyocyte remodeling in experimental and clinical atrial fibrillation. *Cells, 8*(10), 1202. https://doi.org/10.3390/cells8101202
6. Li, F., Liu, D., Liu, M., Q, J., Zhang, B., Mei, Q., … & Zhou, S. (2022). Tregs biomimetic nanoparticle to reprogram inflammatory and redox microenvironment in infarct tissue to treat myocardial ischemia reperfusion injury in mice. *Journal of Nanobiotechnology, 20*(1). https://doi.org/10.1186/s12951-022-01445-2
7. Qian, K., Bao, X., Li, Y., Wang, P., Guo, Q., Yang, P., … & Zhang, Q. (2022). Cholinergic neuron targeting nanosystem delivering hybrid peptide for combinatorial mitochondrial therapy in Alzheimer’s disease. *ACS Nano, 16*(7), 11455-11472. https://doi.org/10.1021/acsnano.2c05795
8. Navas‐Madroñal, M., Almendra‐Pegueros, R., Puertas-Umbert, L., Jiménez‐Altayó, F., Julve, J., Pérez, B., … & Galán, M. (2023). Targeting mitochondrial stress with szeto‐schiller 31 prevents experimental abdominal aortic aneurysm: crosstalk with endoplasmic reticulum stress. *British Journal of Pharmacology, 180*(17), 2230-2249. https://doi.org/10.1111/bph.16077
9. Sakellariou, G., Pearson, T., Lightfoot, A., Nye, G., Wells, N., Giakoumaki, I., … & McArdle, A. (2016). Mitochondrial ros regulate oxidative damage and mitophagy but not age-related muscle fiber atrophy. *Scientific Reports, 6*(1). https://doi.org/10.1038/srep33944
10. Zhang, L., Feng, M., Wang, X., Zhang, H., Ding, J., Cheng, Z., … & Qian, L. (2021). Peptide szeto‑schiller 31 ameliorates doxorubicin‑induced cardiotoxicity by inhibiting the activation of the p38 mapk signaling pathway. *International Journal of Molecular Medicine, 47*(4). https://doi.org/10.3892/ijmm.2021.4896
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GimmeABreak
Registered
I have been pinning SS-31 for about 10 weeks now. I also titrated up to 4mg over two weeks. Now I am at 4 or 5mg in the morning and some days I will take an additional 3-4mg in the afternoon. I am planning to stay on it until I no longer receive any benefit from it.
There have a few studies where patients were dosed 40mg per day for almost a year with no side effects beyond the occasional ISR. There was also no titration schedule mentioned in the studies which I thought was odd. I could not imaging 40mg right out of the gate....
I did about a three-week cycle of MOTs-C where I tried it with, and without SS-31 and did not feel anything from MOTs. I still have a few kits so I will probably try adding it back in the next few weeks.
Efficacy and Safety of Elamipretide in Individuals With Primary Mitochondrial Myopathy: The MMPOWER-3 Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed
This study provides Class I evidence that elamipretide does not improve the 6MWT or fatigue at 24 weeks compared with placebo in patients with primary mitochondrial myopathy.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I appreciate all this - which I have as well! I think ss31 is up there, for me, with epithalon, kpv, ghk-cu, bpc157, tb4.
Love that you're still on the ss-31 - and titrated up over the 2 weeks, I remember reading how you were doing it, you'd gone up, then dropped back, then went back up. And love that you're feeling great from it obviously - and using up to 9mgs a day?! Also interesting - so many seem to only feel the mots-c and not the ss-31 - but also many only feel the ss31 and get no perceived "feels" from the mots. Look forward to your continued journey. And I am gratified to see you've been doing it for 10 weeks now - because my sense is that a longer cycle is more helpful, and do plan to do a 12 week cycle! QUESTION: at any point titrating up did you find the ss-31 interfered with getting to sleep at all - such as staying up later than intended?I have been pinning SS-31 for about 10 weeks now. I also titrated up to 4mg over two weeks. Now I am at 4 or 5mg in the morning and some days I will take an additional 3-4mg in the afternoon. I am planning to stay on it until I no longer receive any benefit from it.
There have a few studies where patients were dosed 40mg per day for almost a year with no side effects beyond the occasional ISR. There was also no titration schedule mentioned in the studies which I thought was odd. I could not imaging 40mg right out of the gate....
I did about a three-week cycle of MOTs-C where I tried it with, and without SS-31 and did not feel anything from MOTs. I still have a few kits so I will probably try adding it back in the next few weeks.
Efficacy and Safety of Elamipretide in Individuals With Primary Mitochondrial Myopathy: The MMPOWER-3 Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed
This study provides Class I evidence that elamipretide does not improve the 6MWT or fatigue at 24 weeks compared with placebo in patients with primary mitochondrial myopathy.
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GimmeABreak
Registered
No issue with sleep at all but I have never taken it about 4:00 in the afternoon. I also only take the second dose like once every week or two. Specifically, if I need a little pick me up because we have evening plans or something. I guess if I pinned at 9PM pin it would probably keep me up. In general, I typically don't have a difficult time falling asleep.
