Test, HGH, Var cycle

[Calm Logic]

And you need a compounding pharmacy in this case since the FDA took oxandrolone (aka Anavar) off the market three years ago:

Oxandrolone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In June 2023, the FDA formally withdrew approval for oxandrolone for all indications, stating that possible adverse effects of the drug were sufficiently serious to warrant removal from the US market. The FDA decision was for reasons of safety or effectiveness, following a 2019 letter from Gemini, a drug manufacturer, stating that the product was no longer being marketed.

If you had no choice but to take Anavar, you would still want liver imaging, CCTA imaging, etc., which is not cheap, along with injections of Repatha. Like the FDA warning says, one can appear clinically healthy despite structural changes to the liver.

 

[Bellypearl]

Ahh yes, kind of like we lie to our doctors about our peptide and GLP1 use, yet they too, do wonders for our bloodwork and lab results.....On paper of course!

I don't want to tell my doc about all the peptides I use, I can't see her face fall and look worried...

 

[Tbagger]

I tell my both my direct payer clinic NP and my normal PCP about everything I'm doing. I don't need their assistance to get any type of drug or peptide I could ever want but I do want them kept in the loop in case something happens. If they have a problem with what I'm doing to the point of it affecting our working relationship, I can always replace them. I let them know that as well lol. We give them too much control over our health.

 

[Superchicken1]

Can anyone explain how American doctors are allowed to prescribe literal oxandrolone?

Typically private clinics, (online or in person), that don’t accept insurance, many of which have a larger client base of testosterone users that don’t necessarily meet the criteria for clinical hypogonadism. It’s unavailable through traditional pharmacies and has to be done through a compounding pharmacy. Standard medical professionals tend to view these places as nothing but legal steroid abuse.

Eta: none of this has any reflection of my opinion on the op’s doings.

 

[d0se1]

I'm on TRT as well. 200mg a week split in two doses. I use 25mg of Anavar pre workout only. So, 3 to 4 days a week. I also take it sublingually to prevent any liver toxicity. Anavar is one of the most researched AAS and is very mild on the body in low dose's and has a short half-life.

 

[slick1]

FDA Black Box for Anavar, including reports of fatal malignant liver tumors, and warnings for fatal liver failure as well as atherosclerosis and coronary artery disease:

View attachment 19552

WTF....talk about fearmongering!

 

[Calm Logic]

WTF....talk about fearmongering!

Talk about stupid, taking oral steroids.

If Anavar is so safe, no need for ultrasounds of the liver? At any point in time?

 

[slick1]

Talk about stupid, taking oral steroids.

If Anavar is so safe, no need for ultrasounds of the liver? At any point in time?

If society were to apply your mentality to using meds that were FDA approved for almost 60 yrs, then everyone who has used tylenol better get a liver scan.....AI fearmonger!

 

[Calm Logic]

"Science is a candle in the dark."

~ Carl Sagan

The opposite is true for bro science. It's the dominant perspective in this subforum and at Meso.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

"Bro science is 50% fact, 50% magic, and 100% results."

- Dom Mazzetti-

 

[Calm Logic]

Results for the heart too.

By Ghoul at Meso:

AAS use is automatically “high risk” for reasons beyond the numbers you see on a lipid panel

We have LOTS of members with LVH.

AAS use by default puts us all in, at least, the lower end of "high risk", but unfortunately the risk scores and guidelines don't explicitly address it, though a (good) cardiologist would use this info to follow "high risk" guidelines for treatment decisions despite other factors putting you in a low risk category.

Not all the things that make AAS use a cardiovascular risk factor are understood yet. Some are obvious like lipids, BP, inflammation, but from the limited research there's even more going on, because risk appears higher than those other traditional factors can account for.

I've seen theories, for example, that micro vessels within heart muscle tissue may be harmed by AAS use in unique ways, hinted at in autopsies of young bodybuilders, but the mechanism isn't understood yet.

...wrecking microvessels in heart muscle and elsewhere, which is virtually impossible to see, even in an autopsy, unless the tissue is specifically examined for that type of damage. And when they've looked for it, more often then not, in AAS users they find it.

 

[sfkid]

Results for the heart too.

https://glp1forum.com/threads/real-world-outcomes-and-safety-of-testosterone-therapy.14746/

 

[slick1]

Quoting Dr. ghoul PhD now, 🤣🤣🤣, what ever happened to this quote by the AI genius CL, "This is not the place to post your pro-steroid content based on your bro science. Go to Meso, where you belong."

 

[Calm Logic]

When I post studies or FDA warnings, I'm being alarmist. So I posted from Meso instead.

But if someone wants studies (which you obviousy don't), there are plenty of them, such as discussing "myocardial damage at the microscopic level:"

Adverse cardiovascular effects include lower plasma HDL levels (16, 19) and sudden cardiac death, often linked to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, especially in young athletes.

Not to mention the guy at Meso in his 30s who did have a heart attack. He survived to talk about it, but there was a death from heart failure. From that thread:

Heart attack ; this is the lifestyle we choose . According to statistics It's probably also going to be our style of death...

My Doc likes to remind me of this quite frequently

From a discussion about "mild" primo:

It still weakens your arteries, adds plaque and enlarges the heart. Wouldn't take it permanently. The German guy recently died of an aneurysm also only took 2xx T + 250/w Primo "sport's TRT".

If I wanted to go supra for "results," the least unsafe option would seem to be just taking more test. Or for a safer option (with less dramatic results), taking enclo instead (if not having eye floaters as a side effect, such as from using "enclo" from India that is actually clomid). HCG could be used with either, with religious testing of estrogen level.

For example:

Some respond to hCG alone if they have low LH. My intro to TRT began with 400 IU hCG, 3x/week and enclomiphene 25 mg, 3x/week (so not just hCG). This increased my testosterone from 194 ng/dL to 864 ng/dL.

I wanted just a little more of a boost, so I recently added 10 mg test prop daily, which has brought my testosterone up to 1205 ng/dL.

 

[Tbagger]

This thread is getting hilarious. We are all injecting ourselves with sketchy Chinese research compounds that have minimal to no testing done on them and mostly no actual human research for the compounds themselves. But a mild pharmacy grade anabolic is what we need to be scared of? Take whatever you want.… or don’t…. Everyone knows that everything we are doing here comes with a risk, be it steroids or peptides.

@Calm Logic You made your point that you don’t condone the use of AAS’s. Obviously people don’t care for your opinion in the section dedicated to them. So I don’t know why this argument is going in circles. I asked for opinions, you gave yours. I saw it and didn’t respond because I don’t agree with everything said. Then you reiterated it. Then again and again. We get it, steroids are bad. Let’s move on.

 

[Gt3294a]

This thread is getting hilarious. We are all injecting ourselves with sketchy Chinese research compounds that have minimal to no testing done on them and mostly no actual human research for the compounds themselves. But a mild pharmacy grade anabolic is what we need to be scared of? Take whatever you want.… or don’t…. Everyone knows that everything we are doing here comes with a risk, be it steroids or peptides.

@Calm Logic You made your point that you don’t condone the use of AAS’s. Obviously people don’t care for your opinion in the section dedicated to them. So I don’t know why this argument is going in circles. I asked for opinions, you gave yours. I saw it and didn’t respond because I don’t agree with everything said. Then you reiterated it. Then again and again. We get it, steroids are bad. Let’s move on.

I was talking to my buddy and we were laughing about how much we love Reta and I said “it’s the best”. And he said, no, test is the best. I said, other than yoga pants for Asian chicks, it’s probably the best invention in the world. Some of us just love it and accept the risks (how ever you want to manage them). And throw in HGH, and you have the trinity. And we again manage and accept the risks. I still vote, though, for saving VAR for a 6 week stretch to dry out for a peak look….

 

[slick1]

I was talking to my buddy and we were laughing about how much we love Reta and I said “it’s the best”. And he said, no, test is the best. I said, other than yoga pants for Asian chicks, it’s probably the best invention in the world. Some of us just love it and accept the risks (how ever you want to manage them). And throw in HGH, and you have the trinity. And we again manage and accept the risks. I still vote, though, for saving VAR for a 6 week stretch to dry out for a peak look….

Anavar may help with aesthetics, but it absolutely helps with strength and definition with little to no water retention, so it can definitely have benefits in 6-8 week cycles with little downside when paired with test. Just like all drugs, it has it's place, just can't abuse it!

 

[timfa]

Sounds good to me. MESO can fuck off. It's your goals with your body. Don't worry about the knuckle dragging juice heads over there. Listen to the knuckle dragging juice heads over here.

Just start low dose with the hgh and titrate up. Expect some possible water retention while on it. With that low dose of oxandrolone (anavar) you won't even need NAC or Tudca for liver support. Plus, oxandrolone mainly goes through the kidneys. Just drink plenty of water. No booze. And make sure your diet is on point while doing gear. The nutrient partitioning is real. If you eat shit, you will look like it. If you eat right, you will look like it. Also lift and do your cardio.

Good luck yo!

The people at meso are clowns they got on me for saying HGH won’t build significant muscle and I got banned 🤣🤣

 

[Mr. Blonde]

The people at meso are clowns they got on me for saying HGH won’t build significant muscle and I got banned 🤣🤣

You not even technically wrong on that.

 

[GTS97]

I'm on TRT as well. 200mg a week split in two doses. I use 25mg of Anavar pre workout only. So, 3 to 4 days a week. I also take it sublingually to prevent any liver toxicity. Anavar is one of the most researched AAS and is very mild on the body in low dose's and has a short half-life.

Please be advised that because of the chemical structure of this, you aren’t preventing liver toxicity by letting it dissolve in your mouth. Furthermore, you are still going to be swallowing some just from normal swallowing.

 

[MTSpace]

Just my experience after adding HGH.

I've been on TRT (130mg weekly split into 2 doses) for a few years, Reta (4mg maintenance now) for 10 months and recently added HGH. Turns out I'm an HGH super responder.

At 3IU nightly of HGH, my IGF-1 went from 136 to 445 and my Z-score went from 0.0 to 2.9. I started at 1IU and moved up every 3 weeks until I was at 3IU and did labs at week 9. I was very surprised with the labs and only experienced very minimal sides.

Currently back down to 2IU nightly of HGH. Labs again in 2 weeks.

HGH has been great for recovery from workouts. I haven't gotten much sleep benefit like most do, but HGH benefits appear in the long-term.

Did you get your labs back? I just took mine today and am planning to do 1IU HgH when I have my base line and then ramp up monthly once I find where I get sides.

 

[Gt3294a]

After losing just over 100lbs last year, my goal this year is to get shredded. I'm currently sitting at 205lbs at approx. 17% bodyfat. I started TRT about 2 months ago and am currently taking 150mg/wk. I am also switching from Tesa/Ipa to HGH when my shipment comes in next month. I went in to my doc to get some bloodwork today and we started talking about my goals and optimization which lead to him writing me a script for a 6 week cycle of 10mg Anavar. So my current plan is to run a 6 week cycle of 6mg/wk Reta (my maintenance dose), 250mg/wk test-c, 4iu/day HGH, and 10mg/day Anavar. Then return to my normal cruise of 150mg test and maybe stay with 1-2iu HGH. This will be my first foray into AAS and was wondering if you guys had any opinions? I'm 42m and my labs are pretty spot on. I was going to ask in MESO but they are ruthless there and will pretty much just tell me I'm wasting my money on a weak cycle, push for increasing everything, and to throw tren in the mix lol.

By the way Tb, one thing to note, starting HGH made my appetite go through the roof the first few weeks. I guess that is the higher metabolism rate. But since you are cutting, just an FYI to possibly be ready for.

 

[aquis]

Did you get your labs back? I just took mine today and am planning to do 1IU HgH when I have my base line and then ramp up monthly once I find where I get sides.

Not yet. Labs again next week. It will be interesting to see where I land at 2IU nightly.

 

[Tbagger]

By the way Tb, one thing to note, starting HGH made my appetite go through the roof the first few weeks. I guess that is the higher metabolism rate. But since you are cutting, just an FYI to possibly be ready for.

I'm already planning on stepping up my reta to compensate. I didn't know GH increased hunger, but I figured the anavar would.

 

[Tbagger]

2 weeks in to my cycle. Test-c 250mg/wk, HGH 2iu/day (bumping to 3 next week), Anavar 10mg/day. So far the results are about as expected. My pumps are better than they have ever been. I am able to push a bit harder and have been hitting some PR's. My recovery feels better and I'm able to get back to the same muscle groups faster than normal. Scale says my BF is dropping and lean muscle is rising by small but meaningful margins. So far, no real visual body recomp changes that I have noticed but I'm not expecting major results from a baby cycle like this. Overall I am happy so far. Depending on my bloodwork post cycle, I plan in running this again in the fall but maybe upping the anavar to 20mg and gh to 4iu.

 

[Gt3294a]

2 weeks in to my cycle. Test-c 250mg/wk, HGH 2iu/day (bumping to 3 next week), Anavar 10mg/day. So far the results are about as expected. My pumps are better than they have ever been. I am able to push a bit harder and have been hitting some PR's. My recovery feels better and I'm able to get back to the same muscle groups faster than normal. Scale says my BF is dropping and lean muscle is rising by small but meaningful margins. So far, no real visual body recomp changes that I have noticed but I'm not expecting major results from a baby cycle like this. Overall I am happy so far. Depending on my bloodwork post cycle, I plan in running this again in the fall but maybe upping the anavar to 20mg and gh to 4iu.

Did you notice an increase in your appetite, like your metabolism picking up?

 

[Calm Logic]

2 weeks in to my cycle.

Depending on my bloodwork post cycle, I plan in running this again in the fall but maybe upping the anavar to 20mg and gh to 4iu.

Test your liver enzymes and lipid values ASAP and often. Better safe than sorry, especially since you don't plan to do liver ultrasounds later.

Liver values like AST and ALT can be tested with GoodLabs with a $4 hepatic function panel or a $5 complete metabolic panel (CMP), plus their draw fee of $12 for Quest. A lipid panel is $8 with Quest using GoodLabs.

 

[Tbagger]

Did you notice an increase in your appetite, like your metabolism picking up?

I have been starving the last week even at 8mg Reta.

 

[Gt3294a]

I have been starving the last week even at 8mg Reta.

Yeah, I did too. I think that is a good sign for things to come.

 

[Tbagger]

Test your liver enzymes and lipid values ASAP and often. Better safe than sorry, especially since you don't plan to do liver ultrasounds later.

Liver values like AST and ALT can be tested with GoodLabs with a $4 hepatic function panel or a $5 complete metabolic panel (CMP), plus their draw fee of $12 for Quest. A lipid panel is $8 with Quest using GoodLabs.

Yes, as stated multiple times, I am meticulous about my bloodwork and