Testosterone.

[5byfive]

Those of you taking TRT are you also taking Anastrozole? I was told by my DR its basically mandatory to prevent too much estrogen. Ive been on TRT for about 4 years now and its been great but it does take some time to get everything in the right place.

Mine spiked when I started and the doc gave me an AI. I looked into it and they tend to have some nasty sides. I was set up on the normal weekly dose which is actually not an ideal way to take TRT in general and can spike estrogen. I moved myself to bi-weekly then to EOD. My estrogen dropped to mid normal.

 

[MikeyMike]

I'll weigh in on the IM vs SubQ. I do IM, use a 25g 1" and use thigh. First couple of times was super freaked out, but painless. It did leave some soreness the first 3 times, but after that no issues at all.

I would recommend on online clinic and not do it self sourcing, at least for the first year or two. Plenty of reasonable easy sources. I used Nuform, around $57 per month for the test and $179 join fee. They did provide an AI just in case, but I have not needed it. It's a game changer! I have my first blood test next week, so don't know where my test sits now, but targeting 900.

As for the holy trinity, I can attest to that. I am using Reta (5mg), HGH (2iu) and Test(160mg x split twice weekly). I have reduced by BF by 5% in 90 days using this. Put on more than 5lbs of muscle and lost 11lbs of fat. I am 52 and found that in the previous 18 months of lifting and getting adequate protein, could barely move the needle on muscle gain. Lifting heavier and recovering better. I have not seen as much improvement in sleep as I would have liked, but have seen some. I highly recommend it.

 

[JCO79]

Your doctor is not correct. The AUA guideline says that two measurements below 300 (has to be a morning draw) along with symptoms is hypogonadism warranting treatment. There has been a lot of good advice in these comments. You can obtain treatment legally and inexpensively. Testosterone is easy to get but it is a controlled substance so using a legal route has some big advantages. You should get a second opinion if you are planning to do TRT. If you are planning to do something more than that (ie drive your levels into supraphysiological range) then UGL is the way to go. I also use TRT nation and have been happy with them. I am past the age of reproduction.

In terms of the pin, I transfer mine into a 3 mL pen cartridge. I use an insulin pen with 29ga, 1/2” needles. I only started a month ago and I have been pinning daily in my glutes. It is painless and easy. Once I see that my estrogen and hematocrit are fine on my current, conservative starting dose, I may experiment with slightly higher doses and space out the injections.

 

[Gr33dyOctopus]

Thank you everyone!! I just read the whole thread, but haven't had time to comment properly on everyone's advice.

Bottom line is I just want to feel good.
Thats the whole reason I ordered the stuff. Now, i.think an online trt clinic is absolutely the way to go, and still undecided if I want to potentially crash what little natural test I have for life.

This really is a crazy choice to consider.

 

[TacoLifter420]

Dude im telling you, life changing! My only regret was not starting sooner. I had mine tested 3 years before I started, I tried everything to recover it naturally and in the end my body just wouldn't make enough on its own.

Its funny as men we wrestle with this decision, but a diabetic wouldn't have to agonize this much over replacing the insulin their body no longer makes enough of.

I think for me I thought I was less of a man for having to supplement something so closely tied to what makes me a man. In the end getting my head past that was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Right up their with stopping smoking 26 years ago and quiting the booze 6 years ago.

The improvement to my overall health and well-being vastly outweighs the commitment.

 

[nkresho]

Thank you everyone!! I just read the whole thread, but haven't had time to comment properly on everyone's advice.

Bottom line is I just want to feel good.
Thats the whole reason I ordered the stuff. Now, i.think an online trt clinic is absolutely the way to go, and still undecided if I want to potentially crash what little natural test I have for life.

This really is a crazy choice to consider.

Depending on your fsh lh numbers you might be a candidate for enclomaphine. I was initially ( low lh and fsh) but decided on a lifetime of test injections. Already had all the kids I'm having in this life. I'm also off the mindset that I'd like to see my total test around 1000. Enclomaphine isn't likely to get you quite that high.

Vitamin deficiency, extended caloric deficit, overtraining, lack of sleep, stress, being overweight, all other factors that will tank your test numbers too. You can tighten up quite a bit before resorting to exogenous test. Methylated b vitamins, d3 k2, magnesium, boron, all good. Regular strenuous exercise ( weights) will also raise test.

Another option to throw in there just fyi. HCG can be added alongside test to maintain fertility, but it's expensive.

 

[Elgordoboy]

Thank you everyone!! I just read the whole thread, but haven't had time to comment properly on everyone's advice.

Bottom line is I just want to feel good.
Thats the whole reason I ordered the stuff. Now, i.think an online trt clinic is absolutely the way to go, and still undecided if I want to potentially crash what little natural test I have for life.

This really is a crazy choice to consider.

It’s unlikely you are crashing anything for life. I’m not going to try it because I feel too good but I would bet that I’d go back to a higher natural level after a year off than when I’d started.

 

[Foggy-Hollow]

It’s unlikely you are crashing anything for life. I’m not going to try it because I feel too good but I would bet that I’d go back to a higher natural level after a year off than when I’d started.

What’s your data source? Aging as a cause means that “jump start the system” isn’t really a solution. A person can’t will their organs to make more hormone. Interested in what you’re basing this off of.

 

[Foggy-Hollow]

Depending on your fsh lh numbers you might be a candidate for enclomaphine. I was initially ( low lh and fsh) but decided on a lifetime of test injections. Already had all the kids I'm having in this life. I'm also off the mindset that I'd like to see my total test around 1000. Enclomaphine isn't likely to get you quite that high.

Vitamin deficiency, extended caloric deficit, overtraining, lack of sleep, stress, being overweight, all other factors that will tank your test numbers too. You can tighten up quite a bit before resorting to exogenous test. Methylated b vitamins, d3 k2, magnesium, boron, all good. Regular strenuous exercise ( weights) will also raise test.

Another option to throw in there just fyi. HCG can be added alongside test to maintain fertility, but it's expensive.

Going to toss in DHEA as an option. It’s a building block for the s3x hormones, for women it’s low risk to take it as a supplement… men it might be low hanging fruit too but (as always) do your own research. 💙🩶💙

 

[Peps-Enthusiast]

The needle in the ass is no big deal. I barely even feel it.

200 is low, for whatever reason PCP's want nothing to do with TRT management so they lie and tell you 200 is normal. I suppose it is normal much in the same way dying is normal for old people. But it's not good and it's is VERY correctable. I forced my pcp to Rx an endocrinologist visit, and the endo Rx's TRT 200mg every two weeks, which is barely enough so I too bought more on the gray market, and now i do 200mg's/week and i feel fantastic. my levels are 1000+ now. Crushing it in the gym, recovery is a dream. I might start anavar next.

 

[Peps-Enthusiast]

I do daily IM injections, 27 gauge 1/2 inch pin. I use my ventral glute, if you go slow you'll feel it. I use a swift stabbing motion and dont feel it at all.

If you lift, keep your nutrition and cardio on point it's life changing.

With levels that low you will be a new man after starting. If you're in Florida I have a great TRT doc I could refer you to.

This - slow hurts when you break the skin but you feel nothing after. Fast breaks the skin and you feel nada.

 

[Peps-Enthusiast]

Thank you everyone!! I just read the whole thread, but haven't had time to comment properly on everyone's advice.

Bottom line is I just want to feel good.
Thats the whole reason I ordered the stuff. Now, i.think an online trt clinic is absolutely the way to go, and still undecided if I want to potentially crash what little natural test I have for life.

This really is a crazy choice to consider.

nothing crazy here, this is a no brainer. Much like others in this thread, my only regret was waiting so long.

 

[Foggy-Hollow]

200 is low, for whatever reason PCP's want nothing to do with TRT management so they lie and tell you 200 is normal. I suppose it is normal much in the same way dying is normal for old people. But it's not good and it's is VERY correctable.

I sympathize but realize this is what women face in the patient room. A pat on the head and “oh, you’re fine” and sent on your way.

It’s worth fighting for optimization. What is viewed as aging is really people’s bodies degrading from not moving. Once I saw that docs don’t care ask long as they’re not liable, things got a lot easier. My endocrinologist didn’t like my T level, commented once then went onto the thyroid details I was there for. And that’s the MOST anyone has said. Usually it’s nothing more than updating the med list with the nurse.

@Gr33dyOctopus my husband tried it for a short bit and didn’t like it. 🤷‍♀️ Personally I’ll pin forever if I at all can, but my system drops to zero whether or not I take exogenous.

 

[Elgordoboy]

What’s your data source? Aging as a cause means that “jump start the system” isn’t really a solution. A person can’t will their organs to make more hormone. Interested in what you’re basing this off of.

Ah. no, not aging as a cause I think for me. Mine was being fat as a cause and perhaps a mild flirtation with opiates 20 years ago. While maintaining the same dosage of test and hcg my testosterone levels went up quite significantly when I lost 30lbs. A successful PCT intervention and a return to baseline would likely put me higher than what my baseline was when I started a while back. I suppose that’s a reason that it’s bandied about elsewhere that a person should lose weight, get in shape and get the diet right etc before turning to exogenous test. I was trying and failing at that though for too long.

 

[notfatanymore123]

I'm starting trt next week. 238 and 215 were my numbers. I'm doing thru my regular primary care dr.. the first two injection will be in office, so they can teach me how to do it. The injections are scheduled 2 weeks apart. I'm worried about that. Everyone does it with smaller doses more often. Will I get a big rush, then a crash?

Any experiences like this out there?

 

[woundcarping]

I'm starting trt next week. 238 and 215 were my numbers. I'm doing thru my regular primary care dr.. the first two injection will be in office, so they can teach me how to do it. The injections are scheduled 2 weeks apart. I'm worried about that. Everyone does it with smaller doses more often. Will I get a big rush, then a crash?

Any experiences like this out there?

That provider sucks. That’s an abhorrent protocol from decades ago when you had to go to the dr to get the shots.

What dose did they prescribe?

 

[Airborne Daddy]

I'm starting trt next week. 238 and 215 were my numbers. I'm doing thru my regular primary care dr.. the first two injection will be in office, so they can teach me how to do it. The injections are scheduled 2 weeks apart. I'm worried about that. Everyone does it with smaller doses more often. Will I get a big rush, then a crash?

Any experiences like this out there?

Youll be fine for a few weeks but yes initially an example would be peaking at 1400 on 200mg and down to 300 by day 13..... they used to do it every 21 days. After that you can split ur dose into twice a week or whatever you decide, with the hopes/expectations youll maintain a level of 600 to 850 as an example. May be 800-1100 or 450-750

 

[Gt3294a]

Youll be fine for a few weeks but yes initially an example would be peaking at 1400 on 200mg and down to 300 by day 13..... they used to do it every 21 days. After that you can split ur dose into twice a week or whatever you decide, with the hopes/expectations youll maintain a level of 600 to 850 as an example. May be 800-1100 or 450-750

My little guy would be limp 24-7 after day 10. I recently got a prescription so I had a travel vial. The doctor was laughing that she used to prescribe once a week shots, saying even that duration wasn’t wise. The idea a doctor would still prescribe once every 2 weeks is insane to me.

 

[notfatanymore123]

Youll be fine for a few weeks but yes initially an example would be peaking at 1400 on 200mg and down to 300 by day 13..... they used to do it every 21 days. After that you can split ur dose into twice a week or whatever you decide, with the hopes/expectations youll maintain a level of 600 to 850 as an example. May be 800-1100 or 450-750

Thank you, I feal a little better about this now.

 

[woundcarping]

Youll be fine for a few weeks but yes initially an example would be peaking at 1400 on 200mg and down to 300 by day 13..... they used to do it every 21 days. After that you can split ur dose into twice a week or whatever you decide, with the hopes/expectations youll maintain a level of 600 to 850 as an example. May be 800-1100 or 450-750

Wouldn't that depend on what they prescribed? My first time with TRT prescribed once weekly 50mg...

 

[Airborne Daddy]

Wouldn't that depend on what they prescribed? My first time with TRT prescribed once weekly 50mg...

Im assuming 200mg of the cyp ester.

 

[islandtime50]

I think my plans to start trt just went off track a bit. I talked to my doctor and no dice. On February blood work had 11.6 nmol/L for Testosterone. Every time I have spoken to my doctor about being tired, no wood, we end up in a verbal standoff about anti-depressants.

Then called a telehealth trt clinic called UpGuys that is advertising. Got a requisition (Hematology, ALT, PSA, Estradiol, LH, FSH and Total and Free Testosterone).

Blood work and differentials are all good, Alanine Aminotransferase 32, FSH is high at 10.7 (supposed to be under 9.5?), LH good at 5.6, PSA good at 0.38, Estradiol good at 73 pmol/L (supposed to be under 162) and Testosterone at 18.3 nmol/L (supposed to be 8.4 to 28.8).
There is a lovely little note on the bottom that says "Bioavailable Testosterone was cancelled because MSP criteria for SHBG testing were not met" where MSP is the provincial medical services plan.
Just for completeness, I also had a requisition from my doctor for Ferritin and it came back 37ug/L which is low but not low enough to be considered deficiency. I am still taking iron since surgery in December and it definitely seems to help me keep energy up.

At this point I am starting to get frustrated with what seem to be intentional roadblocks. First with my doctor as I am a dead ringer for primary hypogonadism with a history of cryptorchidism and an actual undersized testicle, a non-existent sex life that's been slowly developing for a few years now, low energy has definitely pulled me out of the gym (and with running it started to be a lot of twisted ankles and injuries).

This refusal run run the requisitioned test is gob-smacking. If I can't get this done and I tick all the boxes, who the hell can? I can get private blood work and I guess should have because I would like to know those numbers assuming the clinic will go forward with trt.

It really just beggars the entire process because I now think I should have just bought my own test and got my own complete blood work. I don't really care if I have a prescription.

 

[anhydrous]

I think my plans to start trt just went off track a bit. I talked to my doctor and no dice. On February blood work had 11.6 nmol/L for Testosterone. Every time I have spoken to my doctor about being tired, no wood, we end up in a verbal standoff about anti-depressants.

Then called a telehealth trt clinic called UpGuys that is advertising. Got a requisition (Hematology, ALT, PSA, Estradiol, LH, FSH and Total and Free Testosterone).

Blood work and differentials are all good, Alanine Aminotransferase 32, FSH is high at 10.7 (supposed to be under 9.5?), LH good at 5.6, PSA good at 0.38, Estradiol good at 73 pmol/L (supposed to be under 162) and Testosterone at 18.3 nmol/L (supposed to be 8.4 to 28.8).
There is a lovely little note on the bottom that says "Bioavailable Testosterone was cancelled because MSP criteria for SHBG testing were not met" where MSP is the provincial medical services plan.
Just for completeness, I also had a requisition from my doctor for Ferritin and it came back 37ug/L which is low but not low enough to be considered deficiency. I am still taking iron since surgery in December and it definitely seems to help me keep energy up.

At this point I am starting to get frustrated with what seem to be intentional roadblocks. First with my doctor as I am a dead ringer for primary hypogonadism with a history of cryptorchidism and an actual undersized testicle, a non-existent sex life that's been slowly developing for a few years now, low energy has definitely pulled me out of the gym (and with running it started to be a lot of twisted ankles and injuries).

This refusal run run the requisitioned test is gob-smacking. If I can't get this done and I tick all the boxes, who the hell can? I can get private blood work and I guess should have because I would like to know those numbers assuming the clinic will go forward with trt.

It really just beggars the entire process because I now think I should have just bought my own test and got my own complete blood work. I don't really care if I have a prescription.

Sorry that the system has let you down. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands.