The “10x Stronger” Epitalon Myth — Let’s Clear This Up

[PAPoots]

don't mind me, just bookmarking in case this thread becomes a new signature

So is JEEP in the penalty box?
I have yet to use the same vendor twice. Usually because I want one delivery that meets the free shipping target and my luck on finding a vendor with everything in stock is low.
Back to the OP. I did the 5mg for 20 days protocol. If I was overdosing, then I'm seriously disappointed. I got zero effects. I wasn't really expecting any because my telomere ruler is broke. But I think of it as a supplement, like a vitamin and hope I'm getting a benefit in the long run.

 

[tubby]

I think both @Fordhayes and @Chili777 made good points in this thread.

Thanks for sharing your position OP and thanks for unpacking critical information regarding the research Chili. A lot of reflexive people got butthurt for whatever reason, but in the end the matter was better flushed out than it had been before.

 

[randompersonrandom]

So is JEEP in the penalty box?
I have yet to use the same vendor twice. Usually because I want one delivery that meets the free shipping target and my luck on finding a vendor with everything in stock is low.
Back to the OP. I did the 5mg for 20 days protocol. If I was overdosing, then I'm seriously disappointed. I got zero effects. I wasn't really expecting any because my telomere ruler is broke. But I think of it as a supplement, like a vitamin and hope I'm getting a benefit in the long run.

I came SO late to that story, and by the time I got there it was rockin and rollin!

 

[Neurogroot]

Not to add more to this back and forth… I truly don’t know and can’t find any information on it… how does the Epitalon Amylate version come into play? Does it make it more potent? Just increases the half life to make it more effective? Both? Neither? Just saw this product recently and wondered if it’s a real upgrade or marketing.

 

[Chili777]

Not to add more to this back and forth… I truly don’t know and can’t find any information on it… how does the Epitalon Amylate version come into play? Does it make it more potent? Just increases the half life to make it more effective? Both? Neither? Just saw this product recently and wondered if it’s a real upgrade or marketing.

It's real and it's both. N-Acetyl Epitalon Amidate has an extended half life and resists enzymatic breakdown. It shows higher stability which may allow it to target apoptotic cells more effectively. I have some on order, if it ever gets here.

The vast majority of the NA- peptides are dosed in the same amount as the standard versions, they just last longer. They can also be used the same way, via IN or SQ. I think NA Epitalon would be great as an IN preparation and that's what I'm going to do. Someday.

 

[Neurogroot]

It's real and it's both. N-Acetyl Epitalon Amidate has an extended half life and resists enzymatic breakdown. It shows higher stability which may allow it to target apoptotic cells more effectively. I have some on order, if it ever gets here.

The vast majority of the NA- peptides are dosed in the same amount as the standard versions, they just last longer. They can also be used the same way, via IN or SQ. I think NA Epitalon would be great as an IN preparation and that's what I'm going to do. Someday.

This was a straightforward and easy to follow answer. I appreciate it! I do enjoy many of your other posts too, so thank you for just being an overall great community member!

 

[Chili777]

This was a straightforward and easy to follow answer. I appreciate it! I do enjoy many of your other posts too, so thank you for just being an overall great community member!

My pleasure and thank you.

 

[Fordhayes]

…

The OP wanted attention and I truly believe he thrives on the negative attention just as much as any positive attention. He intentionally worded his post the way he did to illicit responses, and he got them.

He is the only one speaking in (over-confident) absolutes here, especially for a compound he’s never personally utilized. Most of us on the other thread stated how we chose our protocols, but didn’t state anyone else was wrong for how they went about choosing theirs. The OP, however, painted everyone else with a broad brush and insinuated that anyone who doesn’t dose at 10 mg has never bothered to do any of their own research and is simply relying on Reddit threads for advice, which I think you’ll agree that most who are on THIS site would be insulted by. He even had a condescending tone with Chili with the “hey, you read the research,” which give a very “Good boooooooooy” impression.

Yes, tone and intent can be hard to always interpret in written text, but if the OP wants more positive response in the future, he should take the feedback that this particular tone wasn’t received especially positively by the broader audience so he can make adjustments going forward. However, I don’t believe that’s the case with him and stand by the belief that he was intentionally brash, arrogant, and condescending because he wanted to illicit strong responses (both positive and negative). Time will tell as he continues to post on the forum about which case is true.

Overconfident? Sure. But it’s hard not to be when the counterarguments don’t hold up. You’re right that I was intentionally provocative, that was the point. Sorry your feelings got hurt.

 

[Fordhayes]

I think both @Fordhayes and @Chili777 made good points in this thread.

Thanks for sharing your position OP and thanks for unpacking critical information regarding the research Chili. A lot of reflexive people got butthurt for whatever reason, but in the end the matter was better flushed out than it had been before.

Appreciate that. At the end of the day, a little friction produced a better conversation than a echo chamber would have. That’s the whole point.

 

[Fordhayes]

If that tone got one person to do anything except roll their eyes I'd be surprised.

A month on the forum and already racking up likes on a nothing comment. Quantity over quality apparently. Must be liking everything in sight.

 

[Bellypearl]

There’s a claim floating around that the synthetic Epitalon sold as a research peptide is 10x more potent than what was used in the Russian studies, and therefore you should only dose 1mg instead of 10mg to replicate the research. This is misinformation, and it’s worth addressing directly.

What’s actually true: The early Russian studies used Epithalamin — a crude extract from bovine pineal glands containing a complex mixture of polypeptides. Khavinson’s team later isolated the specific four-amino-acid sequence (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly) responsible for the effects and synthesized it as Epitalon. The synthetic version isn’t pharmacologically stronger — it’s just purer. You’re getting the active component without the filler. Khavinson himself went on to conduct studies using synthetic Epitalon directly, at the same 10mg dosage.

On dosing: I haven’t run a cycle yet, and I’m not claiming to have the definitive answer. I do have some on the way and I’m planning to do 5mg/day for 20 days rather than the 10mg/10-day Russian protocol, simply as a personal choice. If lower doses work for you, great. But that preference shouldn’t be dressed up as science by invoking a potency multiplier that doesn’t exist.

One more reality check: Vendors sell 50mg vial kits for around $120 for a reason. The price difference between a 10mg kit and a 50mg kit isn’t dramatic. If the 10x claim were true, nobody would be selling or buying the 50mg kits. The market itself contradicts the myth.

Do your own research, be honest about what you don’t know, and don’t spread misinformation to justify a dosing preference.

I have it coming and I'm excited to start. 50 mg vial kit. I like the idea of 5mg day for 20 days, thanks for the post!

 

[Fordhayes]

I have it coming and I'm excited to start. 50 mg vial kit. I like the idea of 5mg day for 20 days, thanks for the post!

Good luck with it! I have high hopes for it as well. Let me know how your cycle goes.

 

[Dos-Dox]

Not to add more to this back and forth… I truly don’t know and can’t find any information on it… how does the Epitalon Amylate version come into play? Does it make it more potent? Just increases the half life to make it more effective? Both? Neither? Just saw this product recently and wondered if it’s a real upgrade or marketing.

N-Acetyl Epitalon is acetylated on one end (the N-terminus) and N-Acetyl Epitalon Amidate is terminated on both ends with the C-terminus getting an -NH3. I think of them like protective “caps” on the ends, so as you cap the end(s), you get more protection from things that could attack or cleave the peptide (like enzymes). That makes them a little more stable (with Epitalon<NA-Epitalon<NA-Epitalon Amidate), and increases the half life in serum (in that same order). (This is another one of the reasons why I chose the protocol I did - I research with NA-Epi Amidate, but like I mentioned on the other thread, not many of the references sites we commonly utilize for protocols makes any distinction between the 3 versions and that also agrees with Chili’s comment that most research at the same dosage.)

My understanding, is that the receptor binding ability increases in that same order with the NA-Epi Amidate providing the highest binding affinity. It’s also my understanding that the neutralized charge of the NAEA improves membrane permeability as well. I’m not 100% certain on those details, however, so if someone has a better understanding of those pharmacokinetics, I’m sure they’ll chime in.

 

[Fordhayes]

N-Acetyl Epitalon is acetylated on one end (the N-terminus) and N-Acetyl Epitalon Amidate is terminated on both ends with the C-terminus getting an -NH3. I think of them like protective “caps” on the ends, so as you cap the end(s), you get more protection from things that could attack or cleave the peptide (like enzymes). That makes them a little more stable (with Epitalon<NA-Epitalon<NA-Epitalon Amidate), and increases the half life in serum (in that same order). (This is another one of the reasons why I chose the protocol I did - I research with NA-Epi Amidate, but like I mentioned on the other thread, not many of the references sites we commonly utilize for protocols makes any distinction between the 3 versions and that also agrees with Chili’s comment that most research at the same dosage.)

My understanding, is that the receptor binding ability increases in that same order with the NA-Epi Amidate providing the highest binding affinity. It’s also my understanding that the neutralized charge of the NAEA improves membrane permeability as well. I’m not 100% certain on those details, however, so if someone has a better understanding of those pharmacokinetics, I’m sure they’ll chime in.

Good breakdown. The chemistry is sound End capping improves stability and half-life. The one caveat worth mentioning is that Khavinson’s actual clinical research was conducted using plain Epitalon. So while the modifications suggest improved performance on paper, the direct human study data doesn’t exist yet for the modified versions. You’re working with better chemistry which should in theory lead to better results.

 

[bay_area_schizo]

…

The OP wanted attention and I truly believe he thrives on the negative attention just as much as any positive attention. He intentionally worded his post the way he did to illicit responses, and he got them.

He is the only one speaking in (over-confident) absolutes here, especially for a compound he’s never personally utilized. Most of us on the other thread stated how we chose our protocols, but didn’t state anyone else was wrong for how they went about choosing theirs. The OP, however, painted everyone else with a broad brush and insinuated that anyone who doesn’t dose at 10 mg has never bothered to do any of their own research and is simply relying on Reddit threads for advice, which I think you’ll agree that most who are on THIS site would be insulted by. He even had a condescending tone with Chili with the “hey, you read the research,” which give a very “Good boooooooooy” impression.

Yes, tone and intent can be hard to always interpret in written text, but if the OP wants more positive response in the future, he should take the feedback that this particular tone wasn’t received especially positively by the broader audience so he can make adjustments going forward. However, I don’t believe that’s the case with him and stand by the belief that he was intentionally brash, arrogant, and condescending because he wanted to illicit strong responses (both positive and negative). Time will tell as he continues to post on the forum about which case is true.

I literally stopped reading when Tony said he hadn't actually taken it yet

 

[Peps-Enthusiast]

did you know that you only use 10% of your brain. Imagine if you used an additional 20%, or even more!

 

[Pocket]

I literally stopped reading when Tony said he hadn't actually taken it yet

Same. The only thing that got "cleared up" for me was that someone with zero experience with it was gonna spout off like an expert in order to sway others. He may be right- he may be wrong, but no credibility to his claims. I just tuned right out.

 

[eidos]

did you know that you only use 10% of your brain.

That's completely false.

And MRI scans of women during orgasm show that their entire brain exhibits electrical activity.

This is a misinterpretation by headline-hungry journalists (as rare as they come! /s) made after Santiago Ramón y Cajal's speech when he received the Nobel Prize.

It took 95 years before serious research was conducted on astrocytes. We now know much more about these cells: see Wikipedia.

I really like Luc B's and Scarlett J.'s movies. But I have some bad news for you: you've already reached your brain's maximum physiological capacity, and you won't get any better without training and study.

 

[Peps-Enthusiast]

That's completely false.

And MRI scans of women during orgasm show that their entire brain exhibits electrical activity.

This is a misinterpretation by headline-hungry journalists (as rare as they come! /s) made after Santiago Ramón y Cajal's speech when he received the Nobel Prize.

It took 95 years before serious research was conducted on astrocytes. We now know much more about these cells: see Wikipedia.

I really like Luc B's and Scarlett J.'s movies. But I have some bad news for you: you've already reached your brain's maximum physiological capacity, and you won't get any better without training and study.

This was intended as a joke.

 

[Pocket]

That's completely false.

And MRI scans of women during orgasm show that their entire brain exhibits electrical activity.

This is a misinterpretation by headline-hungry journalists (as rare as they come! /s) made after Santiago Ramón y Cajal's speech when he received the Nobel Prize.

It took 95 years before serious research was conducted on astrocytes. We now know much more about these cells: see Wikipedia.

I really like Luc B's and Scarlett J.'s movies. But I have some bad news for you: you've already reached your brain's maximum physiological capacity, and you won't get any better without training and study.

Don't know if it is true or not, but I have also heard that if you used 100% of your brain at one time, you'd be having a seizure. So you wouldn't want to really use more than you already do.

 

[RoadRash]

Not clickbait. I’m just fed up. People read the 10x myth on Reddit and repeat it like it’s fact without ever checking the research. The research proves it’s wrong. If calling out misinformation gets attention, good. That was the point.

There is so much bullshit out there floating around it's hard to take anything seriously.

 

[Fordhayes]

Same. The only thing that got "cleared up" for me was that someone with zero experience with it was gonna spout off like an expert in order to sway others. He may be right- he may be wrong, but no credibility to his claims. I just tuned right out.

Knowing the research doesn’t require usage. I read the studies on Epitalon, understood how it worked, and evaluated the data before ever injecting it myself. That’s how science works for everything. A pharmacologist doesn’t take every drug they study. Personal use is anecdote, not credibility. The peer-reviewed work is the actual basis for any claim. For what it’s worth, I have since used it, but my points stood before that and don’t depend on it.

 

[MsGizmo]

Not clickbait. I’m just fed up. People read the 10x myth on Reddit and repeat it like it’s fact without ever checking the research. The research proves it’s wrong. If calling out misinformation gets attention, good. That was the point.

Just because the study was done with a 10mg dose does NOT mean you need a 10mg dose to replicate the effects. Unless you have a study in hand that directly addresses the issue of different dosages (which at this time I don't think exists) you don't have a leg to stand on in this debate.

Personally, I don't care what dose another person chooses for themselves as long as its not dangerous. If they want to do something at 1mg daily while someone else chooses 10mg daily that's fine with me. Why you seem to be bothered by this is baffling ESPECIALLY when you yourself are planning a different dosing schedule than the original.

As for your "tone" you absolutely come across as arrogant while having no more knowledge than anyone else on the subject. You aren't inspiring anyone to do anything that way.

 

[Peps-Enthusiast]

Don't know if it is true or not, but I have also heard that if you used 100% of your brain at one time, you'd be having a seizure. So you wouldn't want to really use more than you already do.

We all use 100% of our brain (and bodies). What you do not use, dies or is already dead.

 

[Pocket]

Knowing the research doesn’t require usage. I read the studies on Epitalon, understood how it worked, and evaluated the data before ever injecting it myself. That’s how science works for everything. A pharmacologist doesn’t take every drug they study. Personal use is anecdote, not credibility. The peer-reviewed work is the actual basis for any claim. For what it’s worth, I have since used it, but my points stood before that and don’t depend on it.

You're right that research doesn't require usage. But before you start spouting off as an expert and telling a bunch of people that they are wrong, MAYBE have some personal experience or findings of your own to speak from. Not just Kool-aid man your way into the room and tell everyone that they are wrong because you read an article and interpreted it differently than them. Science is also about conversation and discourse. Not brow beating people cause you have a different opinion.

 

[WeezinDaJuice]

How bout them Knicks?!?!